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Hyperion files counter claims
Amigans Defender
Joined:
2006/11/26 23:16
From Canada
Posts: 986
Hyperion have just filed their counter claims in which it asserts Hyperion has full and unlimited control of Amiga OS 4.0 and beyond.

You can grab the court docs from Justia

This should keep the discussion lively.

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/27 14:24
From Scarfskerry
Posts: 590
@ssolie

> it asserts Hyperion has full and unlimited control of Amiga OS 4.0 and beyond.


We can but hope.

At least Hyperion and Eyetech *did* something for the Amiga - unlike Amiga Inc.

The sooner those fools at "Amiga" are out of the picture the better. They have held things up long enough.


Bill.

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Just popping in
Joined:
2006/12/2 9:16
Posts: 190
Seems that Hyperion isn't going to take advantage of the injunction being dismissed and release anything for ACUBE, instead it is going for the main prize.

I think we just saw this escalated a magnitude.

Anyone know what the legalese "unclean hands" really means?


Edited by Mitch on 2007/6/14 23:26:17
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The court case is like a thunderstorm after a long humid summer.
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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/2/23 13:49
From Finland, the land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki
Posts: 1108
@Mitch

Quote:

Mitch wrote:
Anyone know what the legalese "unclean hands" really means?

Dirty hands, of course ! You break the law or you cheat other people so your hands are dirty.

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/11/26 13:16
From Here right now!
Posts: 354
@ssolie

Quote:

ssolie wrote:
Hyperion have just filed their counter claims in which it asserts Hyperion has full and unlimited control of Amiga OS 4.0 and beyond.

You can grab the court docs from Justia

This should keep the discussion lively.



And this bit might hurt as well! Page 18 Line 16
no 47
Quote:
47. ... Hyperion is entitled to an injunction prohibiting Amiga Delaware from using the name "Amiga" in its corporate name, in corporate sponsorships of public facilities, and from using the Amiga trademarks ...


whoops The Kent ........... Centre

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Just popping in
Joined:
2007/3/1 20:47
Posts: 91
To me this looks like an action designed to back Amiga Inc into arbitration which is what should have happened in the first place.

I also think that both parties are in some way to blame for this mess. I don't believe that Amiga Inc deliberately set out to rip anyone off, I believe they have just been incompetant and have tried to cover up for some errors, I base this on the fact that Bill McEwan personally became bankrupt. For Hyperion, I believe thay were naive as they should have ensured the original contract was clearer and definitions inserted so that there could be no disputes over interpretation.

I firmly believe both parties have, and are, trying to do what they think is the best thing for the community, the future of OS4 and future OS4 based systems.

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/12/1 3:20
From Michigan, USA
Posts: 519
@BillE

Quote:
At least Hyperion and Eyetech *did* something for the Amiga - unlike Amiga Inc.


Yup. I'm still able to use an Amiga because of them.

But Jeff had a good point about Bill McEwen going bankrupt and going through some other garbage with the "kommunity", too.

I wouldn't feel devastated if AInc were out of the picture. But if everything we have so far with OS4 is lost and Hyperion disappears, there's nothing left at all to bother with anymore.

Paul

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Just popping in
Joined:
2006/12/2 9:16
Posts: 190
I think that the court case has taken an unpleasant turn. I understand Hyperion has no choice.

The best we can hope for is that AmigaOS4.0 comes out of this mess and can be used on any PPC hardware.

Maybe GregS was right when he said they are both holding back.

The Party Pack fiasco won't play well with a Jury neither.


Edited by Mitch on 2007/6/15 6:46:20
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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Amigans Defender
Joined:
2006/11/19 17:45
From Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 2103
@Mitch

You know, I can't see Amiga inc and Hyperion settling out of court.

I get the feeling that Hyperion would probably be willing to reach an out of court settlement. However I have a funny feeling that Amiga inc won't settle for anything less. I fear that whilst Bill McEwen may be willing to, the investors want it all.

Personally, I think Amiga inc are on very shakey ground. You can't transfer assets AND still shake off all your debts/obligations.

As I understand it, if Amiga Washington, claim to be Amiga Delaware, it opens up a road for Genesi and Bolton Peck to come back at them.

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Mikey C

No cause is lost if there is but one fool left to fight for it.
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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Just popping in
Joined:
2007/4/11 6:55
Posts: 89
@Mikey_C

Out of court settlement and arbitration probably will not be on the agenda until both sides show all their guns.

Hyperion have to counter sue at this point. To tell the truth I don't know what this means in terms of US court procedure, all I do know that usually this means both sides take on something of an equal footing in court, if the cases are consolidated which should follow.

Basically it should mean that a court remedy will not decide that simply X has not got a strong case, but Y should get something for its case.

Otherwise if Hyperion is purely on defence, they might win, but not necessarily win what they are after. Counter suing should mean both sides claims come into a single court case.

A preliminary injunction, which Amiga was denied, is a safety/pressure measure, it is usual practice and nobody should read much in to it (it is like a ambit claim, before the real battle, an attempt to get all you want the easy way).

The next step if the court battle goes on is evidential, at which point both sides will get a precise understanding of the opposite case and a real measure of the strength of their own.

At that point who is behind AI should surface, along with many other things, on both sides.

I don't know how discovery works in the US, but basically if it follows the norms anything that is at issue (such as developers contracts, company transfers, audit material etc.,.) may have to be surrendered.

All a dreadful waste of time to my mind.

However, the point where out of court settle is seen as the best solution, is now as the court proceeding head towards mutual discovery, and tabling of evidence.

The problem is that it is also a time when one side might well discover it has a stronger case than it anticipated and goes for broke in court - I believe at this time that the current stock of documents available are not much to make a judgement upon.

A good legal team might well use a preliminary injunction as a means of revealing little about itself, but fishing out some things about the opposition in order to better prepare its main strategy.

In effect, if they are ultra sharp, they have told Hyperion only what they want them to know and made them reveal things that help strengthen their case.

These things are horribly complex and full of tricks.

Alternatively what we may be looking is two companies without good documentation, or particularly strong cases. If AI is slightly behind at this point, Hyperion is only slightly ahead - in either pair of shoes I would be looking for out-of-court resolution.

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Just popping in
Joined:
2007/3/1 20:47
Posts: 91
@BillE

Quote:

At least Hyperion and Eyetech *did* something for the Amiga - unlike Amiga Inc.


There is a need to be fair here and recognize that Hyperion and Eyetech wouldn't have been able to do that "something" if it wasn't for Amiga Inc.

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Amigans Defender
Joined:
2006/11/26 23:16
From Canada
Posts: 986
@Mitch
Quote:
The best we can hope for is that AmigaOS4.0 comes out of this mess and can be used on any PPC hardware.

I'm just glad this standoff is finally coming to an end. Either kill off OS4 or let it live but end this insane standoff. It has been going on for years with both sides playing dumb to the Amiga community.

The Amiga OS 4.0 developers have done an amazing job and poured countless free hours into their creation only to see it being torn apart by greedy corporations with clearly incompetent management teams. Sigh.

IMHO of course.

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/3 12:02
From Beside the "Father of Waters", the Mississippi, in St. Louis, Missouri, USA
Posts: 272
From personal experience (my employer being taken over) I know that the transfer of debts needed to be negotiated into the take over. Now, since the transfer of debts needed to be negotiated into the take over, it necessarily follows that debts need not be transfered as part of a take over, or those negotiations would not have been necessary at all.

Just because a company gets taken over does not mean that the buyer took on their debts as well. Frequently that is not the case.

Earlier I posted this same information in this thread, and the post disappeared; no PMed explanation, no "edited/moderated by", just no more post, so maybe it happened by accident. However, since the leaning on this forum seems to be going decidedly anti-AI, I kind of doubt that it was by accident.

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/17 17:17
From Peterborough. Big-Bash-Shire. England, Distro:Ubuntu & Os4
Posts: 789
@Billsey

No one is modding you Billsey.

I did notice... Funnily enough though... That in "The Reg's" news post about Tao going bust.. Two comments from former Tao employees have been deleted.

Toes being stepped on ?

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Supreme Council
Joined:
2006/11/16 19:25
From Sweden
Posts: 3204
@all

Disclaimer:

While the opinion of individual staff members may or may not differ, the website itself doesn't take any stance at all when it comes to ainc vs hyperion. Amigans.net's policy is to be neutral in this matter. Do not go about claiming otherwise.

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Mr Bobo Cornwater
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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/17 17:17
From Peterborough. Big-Bash-Shire. England, Distro:Ubuntu & Os4
Posts: 789
@orgin

Damn..



Does that mean my flag waving, Effigy burning day cant go ahead ?

Strewth...

Need another excuse for a party now !!

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Just popping in
Joined:
2006/12/6 1:26
From near Seattle Wa.
Posts: 59
@Billsey

Quote:

Billsey wrote:

cut/snip

However, since the leaning on this forum seems to be going decidedly anti-AI, I kind of doubt that it was by accident.

I don't agree that the forum is anti-AI. The Anti-AI crowd is just noisier than the pro AI side. I would say most of us are sitting on the sideline eating popcorn and watching the show. Because a show is what it is. It is kind of like poker. The only thing we know is what the two sides want to us to know.

Relax and have some popcorn...
/me passes the popcorn

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Just popping in
Joined:
2007/3/1 20:47
Posts: 91
@goody

No coke to go with the popcorn? You are just being tight

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2006/12/6 21:18
From Michigan
Posts: 1027
Hi @Paul

I agree with you. The A1-XE/G4 didn't get here by a puff of smoke. EyeTech, AI, and Hyperion got it together somehow! I see the corporate management of it all fell apart? Y/N ?

How would you feel about updating from Amiga OS 4.0 to Hyperion OS 4.1 according to legalities of API. This is not good.

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/15 22:40
Posts: 262
@Billsey

Quote:

Billsey wrote:
Earlier I posted this same information in this thread, and the post disappeared; no PMed explanation, no "edited/moderated by", just no more post, so maybe it happened by accident. However, since the leaning on this forum seems to be going decidedly anti-AI, I kind of doubt that it was by accident.


I highly doubt your post was deleted because it was pro-AI.
In this whole thing, I am on the side of Hyperion and you know what? Also my post in reply to derfs was deleted. So you can hardly say that there is a bias.

I have no idea why my post was deleted and didn't even get an explanation via PM. Maybe this post will also get deleted again for reasons I am not aware of.
To be honest, I don't mind the moderation, I just don't like that there is no way to find out the reason for moderation. A short comment or note wouldn't harm, don't you think?

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