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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Just popping in
Joined:
2006/11/27 19:41
From Poland
Posts: 67
@walkero

We just need now to wait and see the announcements next week and what A-Eon, AmigaKit and Hyperion will do from now on.

This is the same speech by Trevor for 5 years, unfortunately credibility is... zero.

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Just popping in
Joined:
2006/11/27 19:41
From Poland
Posts: 67
@kas1e

any opensource of any "big" amiga (and not only ?) project almost all the time mean death of project or incompatible forks,creating an unstructured and chaotic mess

And now you are waiting for drivers, patches, kernel, new gcc and adtools in people who trade Amiga Classic... OS4 is "subsidized by other parts of the business".

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Site Builder
Joined:
2006/12/2 23:57
From Athens/Dublin
Posts: 706
@SZAMAN
Quote:
This is the same speech by Trevor for 5 years, unfortunately credibility is... zero.

But we can always give them the chance to change. Otherwise this discussion, and any discussion, doesn't have any point.

Maybe this is the last chance for some of us.

Quote:
And now you are waiting for drivers, patches, kernel, new gcc and adtools in people who trade Amiga Classic... OS4 is "subsidized by other parts of the business".


I wish the AmigaOS 4 user base was big like the OS3 and classic. Let's be realistic. It is absolutely logical for them to give more at this side of the community. And also, this is a good backup solution in case of the worst scenario happens. No company would rely their future on AmigaOS 4 only and what Hyperion will do with it.

But they did not abandon AmigaOS 4. Their next steps will show us if there is a point to continue to support it or not.


Edited by walkero on 2020/10/16 18:40:33
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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/11/27 18:02
From Somerset, UK
Posts: 356
@amigakit

Quote:
We bundle the Enhancer Software v1.5 with the X5000.


I assume that doesn't include testers then. I was once offered a copy by Trevor yet never recieved it after passing the message on.

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2008/3/15 2:00
From Alberta, Canada
Posts: 315
@nbache

Quote:

AmiDVD, SFS, and PartitionWizard: AFAIK, the author created them to only run on the existing machine types, so when the X5000 came, they didn't run there. The new versions in the Enhancer pack were commissioned from the author to "un-ransom" them (my expression).


Thanks for the update. Makes sense. On my MicroA1, I have been using AmiDVD for many years to burn iso images and make backups to CD-R discs.

Thanks,
redfox

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/11/27 18:02
From Somerset, UK
Posts: 356
@kas1e

Quote:
We as OS4 beta testers know nothing about OS3 developing, as we have separate mail lists.


a few of the OS4 beta testers have a foot in both camps, myself being one.

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Just popping in
Joined:
2006/11/27 19:41
From Poland
Posts: 67
@walkero

Maybe this is the last chance for some of us.

So, no speeches and no Trevor promises. Please... Only new functionalities live on AmiWest, or maybe new... hardware?

No company would rely their future on AmigaOS 4 only and what Hyperion will do with it. But they did abandon AmigaOS 4. Their next steps will show us if there is a point to continue to support it or not.

And therefore opensource for OS4 (kernel, ES code, drivers, new SDK?) may be the solution. Why keep paying (AmigaKit/Classic trade) extra for it development?

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/12/2 3:55
From Italy, Perugia
Posts: 3369
@kas1e

I almost agree, at the list of questionable things at the user level (atleast me) I would also add the scale of priorities.
Too many times we have seen attempts to implement innovations before having seen the previous projects really completed at 100% .. as if marketing choices will always had a priority over the things that are really needed by ordinary users.

For example, rather than working on new Polaris drivers it would have been much more logical (imho) to adequately support older RadeonHD graphics cards for fully support 3D (in both Warp3D and Nova).

Still the same video acceleration currently in develpment at the moment seems to be only working/availible for Polaris cards cutting behind all that RadeonHD users around.

So in end, if you need to play an old Warp3D game you have to mount a specific RadeonHD card (and not all of them are even supported)
But if instead you need video acceleration you have to put a Polaris ..

Wasn't more logical to first add that video acceleration support on RadeonHD cards?

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/11/27 16:55
Posts: 288
@SZAMAN

Quote:
And therefore opensource for OS4


Nobody is able to that while the validity of Hyperions's license is being legally challenged and whenever it is resolved who's to say the controlling party will be willing to do so.

Quote:
kernel, ES code, drivers


Perhaps you could pay A-EON for the source code and open it yourself as your so keen. Be warned that you'll need deep pockets, very deep pockets.

Quote:
Why keep paying (AmigaKit/Classic trade) extra for it development?


Who says you're paying extra? They could just be taking less profit than they might have otherwise. Ultimately it's up to the customer to decide if a given product or service represents value for money and it's irrelevant how the profit gets spent.

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/9/11 12:31
From Russia
Posts: 6445
@samo79

Quote:

For example, rather than working on new Polaris drivers it would have been much more logical (imho) to adequately support older RadeonHD graphics cards for fully support 3D (in both Warp3D and Nova).


By older you mean RadeonHD ? If so, they both supported by Warp3D and Nova. If you mean _very_ older , like Radeon9250 and co, then it just unpossible to write decepent support for Warp3dNova. Or more of it : make no sense, because of limited functionality of saying cards.

Quote:

So in end, if you need to play an old Warp3D game you have to mount a specific RadeonHD card (and not all of them are even supported)


As far as I know, every RadeonHD (so SI based cards) have Warp3D SI for them, to support old Warp3D, and all works there.

Which is missing in case of supported old stuff, its old Warp3D support for Radeon RX. But from that perspective there needs minigl, and this Daniel before tried to sort via minigl4gl4es, but that need some work, sure. And better if that "minigl for Radeon RX" comes from aeon and bug-free. But they probably don't want to spend time now on that, which I also can understand.

@SZAMAN
Quote:

And therefore opensource for OS4 (kernel, ES code, drivers, new SDK?) may be the solution. Why keep paying (AmigaKit/Classic trade) extra for its development?


Even if opensource will help with anything (which i doubt very much), why they should open stuff, to which they pay a lot ? Because of "friendly community" ? :) Sure not.

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/12/2 3:55
From Italy, Perugia
Posts: 3369
@kas1e

No of course i did not intend the old Radeon 9250.. the cycle of life of that cards are over and that's fine with it.

However not all graphics cards supported by the RadeonHD driver are in reality supported by the older nor the newer 3D, be the old Warp3D or Nova for itself

For example there were many Sam460 users that at the time bought a complete system, just to be seen then to buy again a more recent card in order to use it fully with 3D
Atleast just for using Warp3D Nova..then sure of course considering how much software we have for plain Warp3D.. but this will be a plus... i mean having atleast a full support for Nova in any of that not-so-ancient card would have been a good thing for all that Sam460 users around, instead to just "force" them to buy a more recent card

That's why i don't understand why they decide to start supporting Polaris now.. aniway

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Just popping in
Joined:
2017/8/25 17:48
From Europe
Posts: 7
Besides more communication concerning the progress of AmigaOS 4 and compatible hardware/software, I'd love to see A-Eon and others involved in AmigaOS 4 reaching out to some of the most popular Amiga podcasts/shows on YouTube with AmigaOS 4 in mind.

Amigos Amiga Podcast, RetroMancave, NostalgiaNerd, Dan Wood (he has done some AmigaOS 4 videos in the past), Modern Vintage Gamer and others have thousands upon thousands of followers on YouTube. If these people could be lent or given AmigaOS 4 compatible hardware to showcase the OS, I'm sure it could make a big impact! They reach all kinds of people into retro gaming and retro computing and I'm sure a big portion of them don't know about the existence of AmigaOS 4 at all. ;) Getting a pro like RMC (RetroMancave) do a review of the X5000 or maybe make a piece about AOS 4 history, that would be very, very cool.

Since the topic here is communication from A-Eon, Hyperion and AmigaKit, I think the above would be a great way to communicate to the AmigaOS 4 community and the Amiga community in general that we are still here, we're excited about the OS and we're ready to re-ignite the fire again! ;) However, I think the idea presented earlier in this thread about giving an update once a month about various AmigaOS 4 related projects would be excellent. I always look for news about Tabor for example, but it is hard to come by.


Edited by AmigaOldskooler on 2020/10/16 21:27:51
Edited by AmigaOldskooler on 2020/10/16 21:28:23
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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2006/12/1 18:01
From Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 1188
@Tohe

Quote:
And yes - ofcourse I have Updater installed - I tried it yesterday without any updates available, maybe I'll give it a go today
Just to make absolutely sure:

You are sure you mean Updater and not AmiUpdate, right? They are two completely different things.

Best regards,

Niels

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/7/7 4:34
From Man Cave, Canada
Posts: 2417
...ah soo when is AmiWest again this year?

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/26 21:45
From a dying planet
Posts: 3773
@nbache

Quote:

You are sure you mean Updater and not AmiUpdate, right? They are two completely different things.

Which was yet another questionable decision imo.

While AmiUpdate lies dormant, another program was introduced to deepen the split and insecure the remaining users.

I'm sure AmiUpdate would have had offered, , with some additions, the same level of features Updater did.

Two concurring programs serving the same purpose...

Pretty much describes the whole OS situation right now.

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People are dying.
Entire ecosystems are collapsing.
We are in the beginning of a mass extinction.
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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/26 21:45
From a dying planet
Posts: 3773
@328gts

24th/25th of October

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People are dying.
Entire ecosystems are collapsing.
We are in the beginning of a mass extinction.
And all you can talk about is money and fairytales of eternal economic growth.
How dare you!
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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Just popping in
Joined:
2012/1/10 14:35
Posts: 91
@kas1e

sorry to disagree there ;)

AROS has only forked between 68k and the rest (what people here call NG)

the requirements are too different if you look at the hardware. I think that makes sense.

The other supported platforms are still the same, built from same sources

https://aros.sourceforge.io/de/nightly1.php

What other forkes are there? ;)

Finally you need a dedicated team behind with a clear management behind. Example is for me the team behind 3.1.4/3.2 or MorphOS team

If dedicated people behind do it for free and just for fun or do it for money like in a commercial project is the same. To me it looks like 4.X is a commercial project without money and dedicated people. The worse combination so to say ;). Open Sourcing certainly not automatically solves it, you still need skilled and motivated people who contribute time, in this case for free. But at least there would be a chance.

But a commercial closed project without money is really dead.

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/9/11 12:31
From Russia
Posts: 6445
@Olaf
Quote:

sorry to disagree there ;)

AROS has only forked between 68k and the rest (what people here call NG)

the requirements are too different if you look at the hardware. I think that makes sense.


It's enough that when I tried AROS on does-not-matter-what-hardware, there always issues. Half things didn't works, half just on the way less compatible level that even 3.x in some parts better (wanderer, Zune), some things work on some commit, other ones not, just a mess. By forks I mean "we can work on all the hardware" but as result, it's all most of the time didn't because of any of the reasons. That not worth of discussing there anyway, it just not my cup of tea where I can't ask anyone "why the hell it didn't works while should" because the answer is "go do it yourself, its all free, community and stuff" :) AROS today is a place for developers to try all sort of stuff, just without final, stable and polished result.

Only that distro Icaros Desktop was more or less ok, but once I run it and see how looks like the main theme, not tasty effectst like shadows/transparency in WB, just how looks like "launch panel" which even didn't have normal scaling of icons and in compare with aos4 amidock or x-dock it just a lot worse, and the whole thing just far away in usability in compare with os4 and mos today. Just like os3. But that IMHO, of course, and that why I more like OS4 still.

Quote:

Finally you need a dedicated team behind with a clear management behind. Example is for me the team behind 3.1.4/3.2 or MorphOS team

But a commercial closed project without money is really dead.


Of course, I didn't say in opposite :)

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Just popping in
Joined:
2012/1/10 14:35
Posts: 91
@kas1e

my final say about AROS ;)

I agree that there was no lead or plan behind AROS either. One of the reasons why it never succeeded.

I only answered on open source is bad ;)

Finally you need motivated developers behind any project with a team lead and coordination, the same for open source and closed commercial projects. On commercial projects you also need money to finance development.

On 4.X this is missing obviously

Mattew was very honesty... money is earned with 68k stuff (software and hardware) so there is little chance that more money is invested in 4.X except Trevor is again willing to risk more money with it.


Edited by OlafS3 on 2020/10/17 10:40:08
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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/9/11 12:31
From Russia
Posts: 6445
@Olaf
Quote:

I only answered on open source is bad ;)


It's not bad per se of course, but the history and the experience of past years show that if things open sourced, they lose the real "love" of the main authors. And a community, which calls for open this and open that, usually do nothing with.

Just with some exceptions of course, like it was with Dopus5, which we luckily made works on all platforms. But then, since that, no progress. Because "community" progress, will be the progress of other people, not the main authors, which will mean different products, with different issues. Users will say "oh, the original was better! now it's all different!" and they will be right.

I mean, open any source code of any successful product from any author: all which will come after, mean it's not a product from the main author, but from other people, whose coding skills you may not like.

It's like, if the kernel is open, I go and start making changes. It will be a piece of shit because I am not a coder. And usually, things happens to be like this: or nothing was done after source open, or done badly. Very rare things start to be better instead, just a few examples in compare with thousand failed ones.

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