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Re: Are AmigaKit still selling X5000 machines?
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xxxx


Edited by OlafS3 on 2022/3/29 21:39:59
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Re: Are AmigaKit still selling X5000 machines?
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@number6

it is becoming more and more weird

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Re: Wayfarer Browser programmer interested in licencing to A-Eon for OS4.1
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@kas1e

I have to agree here. Licensing makes not much sense if you still need to invest a lot of time in porting. Then it would propably make more sense to do something from scratch and invest the money in it. But even if you do it one time and have something modern, it must updated all the time. For that you need someone very skilled who does it for love and interest and hopefully keeps motivation or you pay for it but then you need somebody investing money in it for a long time. I doubt that anyone willing and able to do that. In any case something changing as fast as a web browser is difficult for a small hobby niche with not much money to make and limited resources.

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Re: Wharever happened to Libre Office for OS4?
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@BSzili

That is something I do not understand... there was a call recently to pay Kals bills because he is running out of money. If I would be in his situation priority one would be to complete Final Writer because you can earn money with it.

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Re: Wharever happened to Libre Office for OS4?
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@Mikey_C

As kas1e said...

Browser are moving targets with large teams behind it. It is impossible for a small platform with limited number of developers to cope there. It would be a endless run where you always lag behind.

The same is true for open office. I do not believe there will be ever something useful and even if, it propably would be very very demanding

If you want to use OS4 hardware then buy and use it with what is there already and not expect it to be useful for todays tasks.

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Re: Latest ImageFX from AmigaKit on OS4. Anyone tried it?
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@walkero

it will be released together with OpenOffice-Port

for sure ;)

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Re: Announcing David Pleasance to speak at Amiwest 2020
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@asymetrix

I assume they would if there would be something new to report

In discussions here Amigakit openly said that "NG" (4.X) is only creating losses, money is earned with what people here call "classic". That also means that only money is made for Hyperion with 3.1.4 (and 3.2) and not with development of 4.X. Motivation by volunteers working for free today obviously is low and thus activity is low. Betatesters like Kas1e reported that there is not much activity right now and even fixes are not published.

So what do you seriously expect to be new from Hyperion?

I do not know if there is something new there regarding enhancer or Tabor (Aeon) but I would not seriously expect news from Hyperion.

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
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@Rob

Because of that nobody will ever buy 4.X and they will never find a new investor

Good example is magellan, they opened the sources for really little money. If they would have asked for the money that was invested in it in the 90s there would have been unrealitics amount of money.

The money something is worth depends on what you can do with a product, how much money you currently earn with it, the user base paying f.e. for updates and what you need to invest in it in future.

You can guess that 4.X is not "worth" a lot of money for a investor. The expectations Ben H. seems to have are completely unrealistic there. And even then... you would need to have spend lots of money both in OS development and software development so I am not sure if there is any investor out there being interested. You would have to answer why not f.e. invest in Linux then what is much safer.

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
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@kas1e

Magellan I would not say doing nothing

I use Magellan in my distribution, also Icaros uses it

"ApolloOS" on vampire also uses magellan (I think the old one)

And certainly some users out there too

Finally the community is very small now, you cannot make real money and only few skilled developers left. I think expecially in the "NG"-Community expectations were too high, partly fueled by announcements like Libre Office ported to 4.X. People spent lots of money for new hardware to get something useable in todays terms but that not became reality. And now the disappointment is even bigger. Honest communication and not making unrealistic promises would have been better. MorphOS team there is better, they do not make promises but deliver. On 4.X it is the opposite ;)

And of course even on open source you need management. Linux f.e. is not chaotic either. Kernel development is in one hand. Open Source only makes it easier to contribute and you can use it without legal problems (of course depending on the conditions)

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
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@kas1e

my final say about AROS ;)

I agree that there was no lead or plan behind AROS either. One of the reasons why it never succeeded.

I only answered on open source is bad ;)

Finally you need motivated developers behind any project with a team lead and coordination, the same for open source and closed commercial projects. On commercial projects you also need money to finance development.

On 4.X this is missing obviously

Mattew was very honesty... money is earned with 68k stuff (software and hardware) so there is little chance that more money is invested in 4.X except Trevor is again willing to risk more money with it.


Edited by OlafS3 on 2020/10/17 10:40:08
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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
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@kas1e

sorry to disagree there ;)

AROS has only forked between 68k and the rest (what people here call NG)

the requirements are too different if you look at the hardware. I think that makes sense.

The other supported platforms are still the same, built from same sources

https://aros.sourceforge.io/de/nightly1.php

What other forkes are there? ;)

Finally you need a dedicated team behind with a clear management behind. Example is for me the team behind 3.1.4/3.2 or MorphOS team

If dedicated people behind do it for free and just for fun or do it for money like in a commercial project is the same. To me it looks like 4.X is a commercial project without money and dedicated people. The worse combination so to say ;). Open Sourcing certainly not automatically solves it, you still need skilled and motivated people who contribute time, in this case for free. But at least there would be a chance.

But a commercial closed project without money is really dead.

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
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@amigakit

I think you misunderstood what people ask for. And do not shoot the poster (kas1e) because he (and this discussion) is not the reason for people being unhappy but the result of it.

Ask yourself... you buy a product that is costly and needs constant updates to be useful, even only partly supported (missing drivers in this case).

Then the company selling it to you becoming quiet for years not reacting on critisizm, no updates and not even any information. In this case even two companies are behaving like this.

What would you say? And you do not talk about something in the price range of f.e. a RPi.

Even if you are not responsible for the other company do at least your part. Inform people in a blog, f.e. monthly, say them what you are planning and what is planned when. And if something delays explain why. And offer bugfixes as soon as possible and help the few developers out there left as much as you can. Get software ready should have priority.

Most amiga users will be happy then (BTW in normal world the amiga companies would be long out of business). If I would buy a 2000 EUR PC that is not fully supported with no support I would sue the producer propably... So be happy that most buyers are very patient but it not helps you if they say nothing and just leave. As long people still express views in public at least they still care. If forums became quiet finally the platform is dead.

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
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@Raziel

It is all software stupid ;)

Of course you can "modernize" the OS but then you propably break all software. Some can perhaps be adapted and recompiled but much would no longer work.

Software finally is the reason why people use a certain OS. In best case you can easily port all sort of linux software but then you have to answer the question why not stay on linux. In worst case you loose the last traditional users and win no new.

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
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@kas1e

+1

that is my view too. Anything amiga related is small hobby, I do not expect it to replace my work horses by it. And I do not care how advanced f.e. web browser is because I have enough options there. The same attitude is common in most of the "classic" community, it is a hobby, not more not less. Nobody expects the platform to become mainstream again or use it for everyday tasks. It is fun. In the NG community many people still seem to dream of a "golden future" and are disappointed because not happening.

I have one PC for Linux and several with Windows, doing something with amiga has nothing to do with those.

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
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@samo79

Where is Aros "years" behind? ;)

of course only always few active developers (mostly only 1-2 skilled contributing) and thus only slow progress.

The bigger problem always was that there never was a real plan or strategy behind and noone feeling really responsible for the package (seen from user perspective). As a result very advanced in many areas (f.e. mesa/gallium support for many years) on the other hand difficult to find full supported hardware and a only very limited desktop. That improved when magellan was ported but the "native" desktop Wanderer was and is buggy and limited. It would have needed a team (more than 2) with defined goals (f.e. full support and easy installation on selected hardware) with a real project organization and management. Similar to MorphOS team (at least I guess that). The API is mainly based on 3.1 but also includes many extensions.

And regarding user base, yes Aros never was really supported in the community, most people still active decided long ago for either red or blue camp and if they drop it they mostly leave the community. They not even look at competing platforms mostly (unfortunately).

At least Aros 68k now found its home (Vampire+UAE) with active devs behind and much interest by users.

Regarding X86 (or AMD64) or not

It will not happen anyway because Trevor will not finance it because he now has much to loose with his PPC hardware.

But even if it would happen, it of course would not automatic bring new users. And it is not easy to do because you need lots of emulation layers to run both 68k and PPC software. And then you still need new software that motivates people to buy new hardware and OS licenses. We will see what happens when MorphOS is ported.

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
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@kas1e

Mattew informs where money is ;)

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
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@kas1e

I contacted some known amiga developers in the past (most former OS4 developers)

From what I read when software devs (application developers) drop OS4 they do not switch platform but completely drop the whole platform (often not only frustrated by Hyperion or slow OS development but also by the unfriendly community and the Red versus Blue wars.

In case of OS developers, additionally there are those damned NDAs signed by the developers with Hyperion making it impossible (or at least risky) to contribute to anything else. So they leave too then

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
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@kas1e

Hyperion is Ben H.

No clue what he really wants with OS4

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
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@kas1e

Yes of course. Bug fixes (expecially if already there) should be delivered. Expecially if a date for a official big update is unknown.

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Re: Company<->User communication...Is it still a thing today?
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@samo79

I am not involved (perhaps kas1e can say more) but my impression is OS3 development is more or less independent driven by the 2 motivated devs. Thomas Richter is the head and he is not forced to ask about everything (except propably if using OS4 sources). Base was 3.1 sources and in some cases OS4 sources added.

At OS4 the situation seems to be more complicated and if you get no money and additionally have problems to get permissions or needed responses you become frustrated and lose your motivation. That at least would explain the obvious difference.

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