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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Amigans Defender
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Quote:
OpenOffice struggles on my work mac mini with dualcore 2.5Ghz and 4GBof RAM. It's just a bloated load of ..... IMO.


Really? It runs fine on my netbook, and that's a 900MHz Celeron!

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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A very good news about Warp3D, but I am still very very skeptical about LibreOffice, these are impossible porting considering the current limitations of AmigaOS ..

Past experiences should teach, OpenOffice for kids was announced 'centuries' ago and of course it was never released neither as pre-alpha .. so what's the point to repeat again and again the same announcement ??

First creates the basis around AmigaOS and THEN and only then start to invest on this type of project ..

Why Amigans leaders repeat again and again the same errors is behind me, how about invest real money on the Alfkil'QT project instead ?

With QT at a certain level of usability we will have any kind of modern applications we need (including modern office stuff) without much effort ..


Edited by samo79 on 2012/10/21 19:05:41
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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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Quote:

Chris wrote:
Quote:
OpenOffice struggles on my work mac mini with dualcore 2.5Ghz and 4GBof RAM. It's just a bloated load of ..... IMO.


Really? It runs fine on my netbook, and that's a 900MHz Celeron!


It might be cos I'm running neooffice, a native cocoa version. Maybe the main windows or linux versions run faster.

Last I heard it still relied on Java, which is, generally speaking, a bad thing for perfomrance...

Lawrence

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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@samo79 Quote:
Past experiences should teach, OpenOffice for kids was announced 'centuries' ago and of course it was never released neither as pre-alpha .. so what's the point to repeat again and again the same announcement ??

I can only hope that they have a better reason for thinking it might succeed this time. I mean, last time it was a port being done for *free* in someone's spare time, while this time it is being funded (in some fashion), so they presumably "have" to work on it properly.

I'd also hope that funding it would mean the unnamed developer (I'd like to know who!) had to sit down & carefully think how much work it would take to do the port, before he agreed to porting it for whatever amount was agreed upon.

More details would certainly help reassure us. (hint hint Trevor)

Author of the PortablE programming language.
I love using Amiga OS4
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...
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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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LibreOffice is too slow on my AMD3800+.
And AbiWord crashes too often (on the same HW).

So, while libreOffice is nice to have, we need also some lightweight word processor.


- Kimmo
--------------------------PowerPC-Advantage------------------------
"PowerPC Operating Systems can use a microkernel architecture with all it�s advantages yet without the cost of slow context switches." - N. Blachford
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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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Trevor posted more news that was revealed at AmiWest:
http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/?p=1252

Something that should put one of the malicious AW.net rumours to rest:
Quote:
about the future availability of the AmigaONE X1000. The (third) production run is currently underway ... Additional production runs will be scheduled should demand continue to exceed the supply


But I wonder what a "Xorro board" is: Quote:
AmigaKit due to stock Xorro boards next month


Author of the PortablE programming language.
I love using Amiga OS4
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...
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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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Quote:

ChrisH wrote:
But I wonder what a "Xorro board" is: Quote:
AmigaKit due to stock Xorro boards next month



They are the PCI boards with Xena on them I think.

Either that or a board for the Xorro slot on the X1000, but the description is a bit too generic for that.

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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To me xorro board means a board that fits on xorro slot.

- Kimmo
--------------------------PowerPC-Advantage------------------------
"PowerPC Operating Systems can use a microkernel architecture with all it�s advantages yet without the cost of slow context switches." - N. Blachford
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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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@ChrisH

Quote:
I can only hope that they have a better reason for thinking it might succeed this time. I mean, last time it was a port being done for *free* in someone's spare time, while this time it is being funded (in some fashion), so they presumably "have" to work on it properly.


Yes what you say can be true, this time the final result can be different compared to the other project, expecially considering the official support, but do you think the final result will be usable ?

Honestly i don't think AmigaOS is "strong" enough for project like that, look at Timberwolf or even QT .. both of them already exists in a proper form but they are usable ?

After years of waiting can you really use Timberwolf for browsing ?
After all Alfkil's efforts can we really use any single QT application ?

So WHY they didn't spend money to improve AmigaOS4 instead, it's an evidence that for such project we strongly need a better OS, so first improve the OS and then try to make big software .. this sound logic to me even if i'm not involved in any software development ..

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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Quote:

Chris wrote:
Quote:

ChrisH wrote:
But I wonder what a "Xorro board" is: Quote:
AmigaKit due to stock Xorro boards next month



They are the PCI boards with Xena on them I think.

Either that or a board for the Xorro slot on the X1000, but the description is a bit too generic for that.


The latter. See here for a picture (on the right)
http://www.a-eon.com/?page=products

Regards
Darren

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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@samo79

Quote:

samo79 wrote:
After years of waiting can you really use Timberwolf for browsing ?


Yes. On an X1000 it is quite useable, I suspect XE G4 and PII G4 owners find the same. I'll be nice once it is faster though.

Regards
Darren

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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@thread

I strongly recommend you make use of the thread created by Steven for AmiWest news clarification.

AmiWest 2012 clarifications

#6

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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Quote:

number6 wrote:
@thread

I strongly recommend you make use of the thread created by Steven for AmiWest news clarification.


Why? 90% of it is the usual whining.

Seriously, if you do want to contact me write me a mail. You're more likely to get a reply then.
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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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Quote:

samo79 wrote:
Honestly i don't think AmigaOS is "strong" enough for project like that, look at Timberwolf or even QT .. both of them already exists in a proper form but they are usable ?


Usable? Yes. Fast? No. (although the latest 'native painting' version of Qt isn't bad)

Quote:

After years of waiting can you really use Timberwolf for browsing ?


Yes, although it isn't optimised as I'm sure you know, which means there are much faster alternatives.

Quote:
After all Alfkil's efforts can we really use any single QT application ?


I use Extreme Image Converter quite often. OK, it's not the most complicated Qt application around, but nobody has ported anything big that uses Qt yet. My porting efforts keep getting hampered by other dependencies - usually QtWebKit or QML(? - which are obviously part of the wider Qt package), and on one occassion, GLX. Other more obscure dependencies are available.

Quote:

So WHY they didn't spend money to improve AmigaOS4 instead, it's an evidence that for such project we strongly need a better OS, so first improve the OS and then try to make big software .. this sound logic to me even if i'm not involved in any software development ..


There's nothing wrong with the OS, it provides all services that applications need. Perhaps some tweaks will ease portability, but the fact we have Timberwolf and Qt running at all proves there isn't anything fundamentally wrong with the OS.

I daresay OpenGL would help with the speed issues, but that isn't part of the OS per se.

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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@Rogue
I don't see any ANY whining in Solie's AW thread.
I don't see any clear answers yet either.

Regarding Libreoffice that's great news, I use it regularly on PC (quite powerful one) and it would be great for future Amigas as well (X1000 and up).

Does anyone know who is doing the actual porting?

Bounty site for AmigaOS4! www.amigabounty.net
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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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@Troels

Quote:
I don't see any ANY whining in Solie's AW thread.


Because there IS none.

Quote:
I don't see any clear answers yet either.


That is due to travelling home and getting settled back in at work. I thought I would show my support for his thread, which I assumed was his own doing, by cross posting the link to assist in gaining responses.

Sorry the merit of my link above is being brought into question, but that's really for HJF to discuss with Steve privately and not here.

#6

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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@Rogue

Quote:
Why? 90% of it is the usual whining.


Please don't see it like that, i'm not trying to complain just for complain, i only try to understand how we can make our platform better in a resonable time .. just that

@ChrisY

Quote:
Usable? Yes. Fast? No. (although the latest 'native painting' version of Qt isn't bad)


Of course as "usable" in general i mean "fast and stable" and of course integrated with the system ... right now QT apps are not fast enough to be usable for all kind of use, demos might look ok in general but real applications lacks speed and still many bugs... for example they need several seconds before opened, gadget are often a bit slow to respond and so so on, all of that will make apps not so elegant to use (like if i use an emulator), still of course also many little glitch to solve... most of the problem might be related to our current slow 3D but maybe not all problem are related to that ..

But beside that i'm sure that all problem can be squashed with the time, but can we solve at 100% all the problems described above with the current OS4.1 Update 5 ?

For that reason i talk about "OS limitation"

I believe in OS4 and i believe we must invest on this project

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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@Rogue
I'll try and handle the usual barrage of questions. I just posted on aw first because that is where a majority of the more colourful rumours are starting from.

I'm travelling today so I will check in when I can.

ExecSG Team Lead
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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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Quote:
Of course as "usable" in general i mean "fast and stable" and of course integrated with the system ... right now QT apps are not fast enough to be usable for all kind of use, demos might look ok in general but real applications lacks speed and still many bugs... for example they need several seconds before opened, gadget are often a bit slow to respond and so so on, all of that will make apps not so elegant to use (like if i use an emulator), still of course also many little glitch to solve... most of the problem might be related to our current slow 3D but maybe not all problem are related to that ..

But beside that i'm sure that all problem can be squashed with the time, but can we solve at 100% all the problems described above with the current OS4.1 Update 5 ?

For that reason i talk about "OS limitation"


JuffEd took 16 seconds to launch. That's not bad considering it is linking several megabytes of SObjs (libQtGui is 30MB alone). When the debug is taken out that should fall. I also launched it twice (which might have skewed the results), as the first time fontconfig (which is the most horrendously annoying thing ever) insisted on scanning my fonts, despite me having native fonts set. Unless it still uses fontconfig for something, that seems to be a bug.

Clicking Open responds immediately. Scrolling up/down is a little sluggish, as is navigating around the settings, but it's all perfectly useable. It's actually faster than I remember - the only thing stopping me using it as my code editor is the fact copy/paste don't work outside the application itself.

The speed can probably be improved further with OpenGL, but the native painting/fonts is faster than the old MiniGL version so I'm sceptical.

The only OS improvements required that I'm aware of are:
* SObjs being loaded into memory once only and shared should help startup times for subsequent Qt apps (not to mention reducing memory requirements dramatically when trying to use more than one Qt app)
* Menus need to support an infinite number of item levels (the Intuition menu structure appears to be able to support this already so should be doable)
* ASL save requesters need to have a "save as type" option

Alfkil obviously will know more, but that's all I'm aware of, and none of those are critical.

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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@Troels

Quote:

Troels wrote:
Regarding Libreoffice that's great news, I use it regularly on PC (quite powerful one) and it would be great for future Amigas as well (X1000 and up).

Does anyone know who is doing the actual porting?


I believe the name Trevor mentioned was Thomas Frieden.

Rgds
Darren

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