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reaction or MUI based installer utility
Not too shy to talk
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from what i have read about install issues, and with the new install scripts using python but not much documentation being around, would a bounty for a reaction based installation utility be worthwhile?

something where devs can use a GUI front-end to just say these are the files, this is where to put them, it then puts it all in one archive, and when executed runs installer.

it would always use unarc, so protection bits would not be lost, it would always check if files exist already and check file versions are correct before installing, and so on.

you tell me, would this be useful to anyone making or running applications? would there be certain extras that would have to be included to make it worthwhile?

what does everyone think?

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Re: reaction or MUI based installer utility
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just seen this in another thread as well

http://www.os4coding.net/forum/improving-quality-software-releases

Hans has come up with similar issues, although i was thinking not everyone needs to become experts in writing installer scripts if a easy to use program can do it for you (and allow you to edit the script if needed anyway)

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Re: reaction or MUI based installer utility
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It should be possible to analyze the binary to find *.library *.mcc *.font *.ttf to generate the dependencies.
Package directory tree can be generated, and install script.

The installer should be so intelligent that if HUNK files is found it does not replace ELF files.

It’s nice to create a new package management system is nice but does not solve problems whit old programs.

I believe we really are going to solve this problem we need the help of Hyperion.

(NutsAboutAmiga)

Basilisk II for AmigaOS4
AmigaInputAnywhere
Excalibur
and other tools and apps.
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Re: reaction or MUI based installer utility
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How about re-use of an existing script based package manager with the features required?

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Re: reaction or MUI based installer utility
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Quote:

derfs wrote:
from what i have read about install issues, and with the new install scripts using python but not much documentation being around, would a bounty for a reaction based installation utility be worthwhile?

something where devs can use a GUI front-end to just say these are the files, this is where to put them, it then puts it all in one archive, and when executed runs installer.

it would always use unarc, so protection bits would not be lost, it would always check if files exist already and check file versions are correct before installing, and so on.

you tell me, would this be useful to anyone making or running applications? would there be certain extras that would have to be included to make it worthwhile?

what does everyone think?

Would it not be possible to adapt something like Cranu , to generate an install script when creating an archive, as an option if course.
So maybe Peter Gordon is the guy to speak to.

Peter Swallow

Eyetech A1XE-G3 800Mhz OS4.1
Towered A1200 OS3.9
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Re: reaction or MUI based installer utility
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What's wrong with Installer? It does everything mentioned already.

Maybe a program which generates simple Installer scripts would be useful, but a whole new installation utility would not.

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Re: reaction or MUI based installer utility
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Similar topic has come up on OS4Coding.net, I haven't mentioned this yet, but these should be the basic requirements of an installer or rather the python Installation Utility.

1) Version checking when copying files. MANDATORY
2) No bollocks Basic, Advanced and Expert modes - not necessary if written correctly.
3) Checks AmiDock for presence of application icon and if not present adds icon into the main dock area. MANDATORY
4) Graphics. Customisable top header. MANDATORY
5) More graphics. In a lengthy installation it should be possible to display a selection of graphic banners at say 10%, 30%, 50%, 70%, 90% or whatever. Eg. feature list. OPTIONAL

Probably more points to be fair, but they are the most important.

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Re: reaction or MUI based installer utility
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IMHO better to start as small & simple as possible, then gradually improve it (at least partly based upon feedback - rather than some obtuse personal theory). Avoid big complex design that will be a nightmare to code, and too complicated for anyone to use (or at least which they would ignore half the features of).

Would also be a good idea to reuse as much existing work as possible, to avoid reinventing the wheel & making maintenance harder. Chris's suggestion of using our existing Installer makes sense to me.

Author of the PortablE programming language.
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Re: reaction or MUI based installer utility
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Quote:

ChrisH wrote:
IMHO better to start as small & simple as possible, then gradually improve it (at least partly based upon feedback - rather than some obtuse personal theory). Avoid big complex design that will be a nightmare to code, and too complicated for anyone to use (or at least which they would ignore half the features of).

Would also be a good idea to reuse as much existing work as possible, to avoid reinventing the wheel & making maintenance harder. Chris's suggestion of using our existing Installer makes sense to me.


how about an "installer" for installer, where its a GUI program that you can give all the required files too, its creates an install script for installer, as well as creating a single achive to run it from.

IIRC installer already can check version numbers for files needed, so it checks which files you give it, and only copies it over if its newer.

this way, you dont have to learn python for the new installer for simple packages.

amiupdate can be used to keep things up to date once its installed.

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Re: reaction or MUI based installer utility
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@derfs

Quote:
how about an "installer" for installer, where its a GUI program that you can give all the required files too, its creates an install script for installer, as well as creating a single achive to run it from.


That's basically what I was suggesting.

Quote:
IIRC installer already can check version numbers for files needed, so it checks which files you give it, and only copies it over if its newer.


Yes, it does, if you use copylib. copylib only supports single files - but it is a breeze to do a foreach loop to copy more than one, I use this to copylib everything out of the libs dir in my NetSurf install script.

Once we have documentation for the new Python-based Installer, the Installer script generation wizard could be updated to output scripts for that too, as well as AmiUpdate AutoInstall scripts.

I'm going to be cheeky and suggest you could probably write this in Installer if you so desired

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Re: reaction or MUI based installer utility
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Quote:
djrikki wrote:
3) Checks AmiDock for presence of application icon and if not present adds icon into the main dock area. MANDATORY
I hope you mean it's mandatory to have this as an option for the user. No bleeding installer script messes with my main dock!

Best regards,

Niels

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Re: reaction or MUI based installer utility
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Agreed. I want to keep control of the icons in my docks

Philippe 'Elwood' FERRUCCI
Sam460ex 1.10 Ghz
http://elwoodb.free.fr
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Re: reaction or MUI based installer utility
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Quote:

LiveForIt wrote:


It should be possible to analyze the binary to find *.library *.mcc *.font *.ttf to generate the dependencies.
Package directory tree can be generated, and install script.


What if my program checks if a library exists using OpenLibrary(), but doesn't actually need it? Such a dependency list should be used as a guide only. In fact, I recommend that people use Snoopy to get the dependencies so that they know what to include.

BTW, I used Advanced Installer to generate the GfxBench2D for Windows installer, and even there, making sure that the dependencies are included is the developer's responsisbility.

Hans

http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - more of my work
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Re: reaction or MUI based installer utility
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Quote:

Chris wrote:
@derfs

Quote:
how about an "installer" for installer, where its a GUI program that you can give all the required files too, its creates an install script for installer, as well as creating a single achive to run it from.


That's basically what I was suggesting.


Ah, so you actually mean an installer generation utility, not yet another installer.

I'm all for such a utility, and I couldn't care less if it used Reaction or MUI. Having used Advanced Installer on Windows, I can say that having such a utility makes life so much easier than having to write the scripts manually.

I think that one of the reasons why so many developers don't create installers is because the task of learning yet another scripting language is rather daunting. This is particularly true if you've already spent so much time creating the app, and would love to share it ASAP.

Hans

http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - more of my work
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Re: reaction or MUI based installer utility
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This would be a valuable program - worthy of a bounty.

here is a link to a modified 7zip installer - with script code :

http://7zsfx.solta.ru/en/

The script forces UTF-8

The configuration page on the left shows all commands, which are very easy to learn.

We need UserC, UserLibs, UserPrefs drawers so not to mess with official SYS: partition.

Detect library version :
if newer, copy old version to UserLibs then copy new to SYS:
if older, check if there is already in UserLibs first, then copy to UserLibs.

Just in case a specific program requires a specific version to work. In this case installer should log similar libs file and FLAG the program that requires it.

This will keep a record of dependancies and find problem programs that can be reported and fixed.

Which is the better solution - Flag the file that requires specific version of a Lib or just copy a different version to UserLibs ?

MD5 logging of files and operations.
Record each stage for documentation automatically.
Templates
Silent Install for multiple systems simultaneously

could having specific folder structure be useful ?
eg all docs in subfolder Docs

EG recommended structure :

MyAppFolder
-MyApp
-Docs/MyAppDoc

Installer maps shortcut
Program shortcut "MyApp" to MyAppFolder/MyApp
Programs documentation "MyAppDoc" to MyAppFolder/Docs/MyAppDoc

So now shell or any program can execute program :
"MyApp <options>"

or call ANY Programs documentation by executing :
"TextReader MyAPPDoc"

A table keeping this information can be parsed to create or recreate HTML documentation with links to apps/tuts etc or even embed code,examples, version numbers, settings - anything !

If you follow structure guide your app will be detected, if you want to install app anyware - dont expect detection.

just some thoughts

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Re: reaction or MUI based installer utility
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@Hans

Quote:

Ah, so you actually mean an installer generation utility, not yet another installer.


sorry, my fault for not being clear with the title.

As Chris said, if the generation utility supports it, then at first it can support the old installer, and then the newer one once the documentation comes out.

My main thoughts started with "How can this be made easier", and not so much "what can be added to it". A preview option where it runs installer but doesnt copy any files would help IMHO.

Would this be worthwhile to create a bounty?

With the other suggestion people have made, it is more for a installer "guidelines" list, or replacing the existing installer. the former needs to be done by Hyperion, and the latter just needs documentation as it already exists.


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Re: reaction or MUI based installer utility
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Quote:

derfs wrote:
@Hans

Quote:

Ah, so you actually mean an installer generation utility, not yet another installer.


sorry, my fault for not being clear with the title.


No worries, it's clear now.

Quote:
As Chris said, if the generation utility supports it, then at first it can support the old installer, and then the newer one once the documentation comes out.

My main thoughts started with "How can this be made easier", and not so much "what can be added to it". A preview option where it runs installer but doesnt copy any files would help IMHO.

Would this be worthwhile to create a bounty?


Yes, it would be worthwhile. Make sure that the bounty explains why it will be beneficial to end users though (i.e., more programs/libs will have decent installers).

Hans

http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - more of my work
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Re: reaction or MUI based installer utility
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Hmmm... Just posted on this subject on AW as well... I had been thinking of writing an installer script generating utility in the past for OS3.x - maybe I'll revive this idea and get cracking on it, it would work fine for OS4 as well.

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Re: reaction or MUI based installer utility
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Developer time is precious in today's Amigaland so before somebody jumps on creating an installer generation utility, it would be nice to have a word from Hyperion as regards the future of the actual Installer. Are they planning to ditch the original, Lisp-based one in favour of the Python installer? Are they going to supply any documentation with the latter?

The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
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Re: reaction or MUI based installer utility
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@trixie

That's true, but given that the LISP-based installer is still current for OS4.1, a script creation utility would surely be worthwhile for some time at least, especially if it works on OS3 as well, as there are still plenty of packages being released for 3.x - more than for OS4, if the Aminet recent list is anything to go by...

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