With a QEmu emulated AmigaOS 4.x system that difference doesn't exist: The Linux or Windows host OS can run browservice and the guest OS (AmigaOS 4.x) the "GUI" (IBrowse, etc.) for it.
Yes. If someone knows how to do it and is able to create a “GUI” and the necessary library for AOS4 and is well versed in QEMU code, it should be achievable for QEMU in a few months. Even @broadblues wrote about what the solution in AmiBench uses. For example, QEMU 3dfx (I don't know if it's the best). References to “opengl” are redirected to the native system. The “native” system handles everything. Replacing the system libraries in MS Windows with those that pass references to the native system solves the problem. There is no need to emulate a super 3D card in QEMU. QEMU has the simplest 2D card and that's it. The source code is available and, as I wrote, it may be helpful for someone who knows what they are doing.
For real AmigaNG, I think the easiest and currently most accessible solution for almost everyone is to use AmiCygnix and, on the other hand, some Linux with the X Window System. If I remember correctly, @white did that. You don't need to write a GUI, just connect to the Linux system via ssh and launch a browser from AmiCygnix. For a simple “all in one” solution without a separate computer with Linux, you can install it on a Robespery pi 2 and plug it into the AmigaNG USB port (it should work without external power if the port provides good voltage). Connect the Robespery and AmigaNG via ETTH if the AmigaNG has two network cards and it is possible that it will work. The problem may be the network performance in the AMIGAOS4 driver/stack.
Robespery pi 2 has a WiFi card, so it will connect to the Internet through it. You can also do this on a single network card, in which case Robespery pi would be a “gateway” to the world for AmigaNG.
I wrote this as simply as possible so that it would be understandable to everyone, and it is possible that my assumptions may be wrong.
Yes, with the old QT, I used Firefox with all the plug-ins like ublock or adblock, and other plugins to preset the video quality on YouTube. The videos were very smooth even though I was using WinUAE and using QT via SSH.
Now, honestly, I'm less and less inclined to use AmigaOS platforms like Proxmox or VSphere because, unfortunately, I don't feel very well anymore. I was thinking of creating a platform to process emulation with programs like FFPLAY and BrowService. With 68k, I already do that; I can watch YouTube videos without any problems.
Every now and then, I have to use oxygen, and I'm starting to feel tired. Emphysema is a terrible disease.
You don't have the strength you used to.
And you often feel tired.
Just as a day well spent brings a happy sleep, so a life well used brings a happy death.
In my view, Andy and AmigaKit, and anyone else who got involved into AmiBrowser, created an excellent application, and they deserve congratulations on bringing that to their customers.
Now, I do not know if they have plans to bring something similar to OS4, but since it is pretty new, they need the time that is needed to do development. Let them work, and let's hope for the best.
And really good work. I'm clearly waiting for Virtio-GPU, but the thing that annoys me is not receiving any response. In short, a date or a project.
After all, Virtio-GPU is an emulation. I repeat, unless you intend to create Linux hardware that runs it (a machine with Linux already pre-packaged). And I would also understand why it could become commercial.
Obviously, at that point, I wouldn't be interested, not because I don't appreciate the work, but because I've already paid for the software in other ways.
@walkero I don't know what AmigaKit's plans are, but if in a few/several months it finds its “new interest,” those who bought the A600 GS or A1200 NG will end up in the same place as AOS4 users. There are updates, but there's no time to make them available (RadeonHD/RX drivers) or a plan to release ES2.3. There's no specific date or content for it. Just rumors. Virtio-GPU... No one in the AOS4 world seems to be waiting even for the UP3 update anymore. No one is interested in it anymore. Not me, and not those I sometimes talk to.
@white Quote:
Yes, with the old QT, I used Firefox with all the plug-ins like ublock or adblock, and other plugins to preset the video quality on YouTube. The videos were very smooth even though I was using WinUAE and using QT via SSH
Do you still have those videos showing how it worked, or could you record a short presentation?
It's simple: with AmigaOS 4.1 I used SSHTerm (osdepot). With WinUAE I used NPCAP to get an external IP via the VMWare8net interface with the RTL 8029 PCI driver.
Yes, today I installed the PCI 4.0 SSD. Luckily, the PC manufacturer where I bought it had included screws in the package for the PCI SSD. They were tiny. I finally found them Because the Samsung 990 PRO SSD PCI didn't have any screws.
Then I installed the ARTIC heatsink, which I bought separately. It's August and it reaches between 40 and 50 degrees Celsius, so the SSD works well at that temperature. I have a Linux backup. I just need to install the R9 280 GPU and test it.
And then I stopped. I didn't feel like doing anything anymore.
Restoring the backup only takes 10 minutes and everything is ready. To try again.
Just as a day well spent brings a happy sleep, so a life well used brings a happy death.
Yes. If someone knows how to do it and is able to create a “GUI” and the necessary library for AOS4 and is well versed in QEMU code, it should be achievable for QEMU in a few months.
No chages in QEMU needed. If I get the concept right you can just communicate between the GUI and the service on the host via a network port so you just use hostfwd or if the server is on the host you can just connect to it from the guest. Nothing within QEMU needs to be changed for this.
Quote:
For example, QEMU 3dfx (I don't know if it's the best). References to “opengl” are redirected to the native system. The “native” system handles everything. Replacing the system libraries in MS Windows with those that pass references to the native system solves the problem. There is no need to emulate a super 3D card in QEMU. QEMU has the simplest 2D card and that's it. The source code is available and, as I wrote, it may be helpful for someone who knows what they are doing.
I don't know how is it even related but this is not the best solution to anything. It will never be upstreamed in QEMU so you'd need external patches and it probably won't won't work for AmigaOS because it assumes there is a guest side library that can be replaced to talk to the host instead of the hardware which is not how the AmigaOS driver works. You'd need to replace the AmigaOS driver for that but you can't write 3D drivers for AmigaOS, only Hans can. And he actually did already write a better one for virtio-gpu. Altermatively you could try porting an actual Voodoo emulation from UAE which comes from PCem which comes from Bochs or MAME originally so you could take any of those and make a QEMU device based on that which would work with an unchanged driver but it could do less than a virtio-gpu driver can do so why not try to get the virtio-gpu driver or write a free replacement of that if we can't get the official version? No need to write emulation in QEMU for that either only the AmigaOS driver.
Quote:
Robespery pi 2 has a WiFi card, so it will connect to the Internet through it. You can also do this on a single network card, in which case Robespery pi would be a “gateway” to the world for AmigaNG.
I don't know who is Robespierre 2 but this sounds like a very convoluted way to solve a problem that should be solved in software instead.
Yes, with the old QT, I used Firefox with all the plug-ins like ublock or adblock, and other plugins to preset the video quality on YouTube. The videos were very smooth even though I was using WinUAE and using QT via SSH
Do you still have those videos showing how it worked, or could you record a short presentation?
There was a long and detailed thread about it somewhere here. As I remember you would basically only need to hostfwd the AmiCygnix X server port 6000 from the guest as for example 6010 on the host so you can connect to it as -display :10 but I was not able to explain how to do that so White could get a working command line. I think something like -netdev user,id=net0,hostfwd=tcp:127.0.0.1:6010-:6000 should work then on the host DISPLAY=localhost:10 firefox should open the window on the guest (maybe you need to disable xhost authentication in AmiCygnix or copy the authentication cookie to the host but ssh should take care of that if run with the appropriate options so may even just work without hostfwd).
I don't know how is it even related but this is not the best solution to anythin
Yes, I wrote a bit too much, but it can be done as you say. I just meant an example of using a library in a guest system that refers to another one existing in the system, and maybe it's not the best method. Quote:
I don't know who is Robespierre 2
A new version of Raspberry Pi? ... Just kidding I gave an example of how Raspberry Pi can be used, but I think I wrote too much.
If I get the concept right you can just communicate between the GUI and the service on the host via a network port so you just use hostfwd or if the server is on the host you can just connect to it from the guest.
Browservice runs Chromium on the server, rendering into an off-screen buffer which is served to the client via it's internal HTTP server as PNG or JPEG images and some JavaScript. The client is just any old web browser, like Internet Explorer 4.x or FireFox 1.5.x on Windows 95, or one of the limited web browsers on AmigaOS, which displays the images and forwards mouse and keyboard input events to the server. Nothing additionally required, neither a special GUI like AmiBrowser, nor hostfwd, a X11 like AmiCygnix, etc.
All you need is a working network connection, which seems to be a problem with QEmu running on Windows.
Of course there are other solutions like using AmiCygnix to connect to a Unix X11 system running for example FireFox, or using RemoteDesktop (RDP) to access the display of a Windows system (Pro or Enterprise version of Windows required now, no longer included in Windows Home versions as it used to be in older Windows versions) for using modern web browsers on AmigaOS, even if the browser itself is executed on a different system and AmigaOS just displays it's output and forwards the input to it.
Disadvantage is that you usually needed two computers for that, the Linux, Windows, etc. one running the browser, and an AmigaOS one displaying it's GUI. But with the A600GS/A1200NG (Linux/ARM running on an Orange Pi host with AROS/m68k guest emulation) and QEmu (Linux, MacOS or Windows host emulating an AmigaOS 4.x or MorphOS PPC guest) a single computer is enough. In addition to the m68k or PPC CPU and hardware emulation the host can run something like Browsevice as well, and least in case of QEmu probably with next to no slowdown of the emulated system, as QEmu is more or less single-threaded and other software like browservice can use the, otherwise idle, additional host CPU cores.
Edited by joerg on 2025/8/10 16:45:42 Edited by joerg on 2025/8/10 17:27:13 Edited by joerg on 2025/8/10 17:35:56
To be precise, it worked via SSHterm. I had access to the Linux shell and could do anything from the shell.
If I used a player like FFPlay, for example, I could only hear the sound on the local QT for AmigaOS screen.
So I assume the "SM501 driver" didn't fully support opening FFPlay, for example. Nor did it support opening Firefox.
While I could use Firefox, for example, without any problems by controlling it directly from AmigaOS via SSHTerm, but only display it from the Linux side while controlling the Linux shell from AmigaOS.
That's all.
This time too, except for @Balaton and a few others, they were helpful. But this time too, I'll be leaving the forum again.
Because it's basically useless, at least for me.
And who knows if internet users will find lots of great AmigaOS stuff out there.
Just as a day well spent brings a happy sleep, so a life well used brings a happy death.
AmiBrowser is a great solution for the A600GS/A1200NG. AmigaKit are doing their best to serve their customers.
I don't think that AmiBrowser makes sense for AmigaOS 4.x at all. The A600GS/A1200NG has a host OS on an ARM CPU. So running Chromium in native ARM and having a 68K component to integrate it into AROS/AmigaOS 3 makes sense.
Why Amigakit has written this application only for Amyberry and ignore us. After spending a lot of money for the NG, Enhancer hardware, etc.? Is the development of enhancer and system56 has interrupted?
While the owner of AmigaKit is co-owner of A-EON, bear in mind that they're separate companies. AmigaKit has always had a sizable 68K component, and they have complete freedom with the A600GS/A1200NG to develop it as they see fit. It looks like the sales of those units are going pretty well
By contrast, OS4 is owned by another company (Hyperion Entertainment), so A-EON isn't in control. Plus the OS4 situation is very messy right now.
Of course there are other solutions like using AmiCygnix to connect to a Unix X11 system running for example FireFox, or using RemoteDesktop (RDP) to access the display of a Windows system
Up until recently I was running RemoteDesktop on my X1000 to connect to a very old laptop to do things I couldn't do under AmgiaOS4. It worked pretty well with a couple of things to avoid. (like it would freeze if I tried to copy the URL from the URL field of the Windows browser.)
Recently I purchased this TRIGKEY Mini PC Ryzen 5 5500U for $230, which runs Windows 11 Pro, but I couldn't get RemoteDesktop to work with it.
So...I switched to runiing TightVNC server on the Windows side and TwinVNC client on the X1000 side. I have to say it runs better than RemoteDesktop. No more little things to avoid. It runs smooth and fast enough to watch YouTube videos in Brave or Edge browser. I'm very satisified with this setup but it would still be great to have a better AmigaOS4 browser!
Edited by ktadd on 2025/8/11 6:23:58 Edited by ktadd on 2025/8/11 6:25:42
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