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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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@ChrisH

Thanks for the reply and the informations, you hit the point ;)

@Xenic

That is, for sure, another good point no one works for free..

Let's hope that A-Eon will look for a solution in the near future maybe after the release of LibreOffice. It would be a dream to have a dedicated group of developers just for Firefox.. (me dreaming I know..)

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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I also hope A-Eon has something cooking. Xenic made a good point about user retention.

This is just like television, only you can see much further.
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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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@Kamelito

Thanks for the link, that is great news hopefully other websites I visit will follow this path. I wish Adobe Flash would hurry up and die already.

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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@Deniil
Quote:
Does anyone know if there is any progress being made on a new Odyssey with a smoking fresh webkit engine that could last us a few more years?

Not recently.

@all
Having established that we need an updated browser, now what? Who's going to be the hero(s) and make it happen? Should Odyssey be updated? What about switching to Chrome's Blink (has less code, but may not solve the endianness issues)? Or, is updating TimberWolf the future?

Personally, I think WebKit or Blink are the way forward. Firefox seems to be losing ground.

BTW, how many people have actually managed to build TimberWolf or Odyssey from the source code repositories? Are either buildable natively on AmigaOS?

Hans

http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - more of my work
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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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@Hans
Nobody has joined the TImberwolf project at github and I don't know anyone who has checked out the code and attempted to compile it. The Odyssey sources are at github and kasle has place the current OS4 Odyssey sources in a seperate branch of the repository for now. The main branch only compiles for AROS I believe. I think progress on OS4 Odyssey has halted because the main (MAC) Odyssey team stopped supporting PPC versions and there are now big-endian/little-endian isssues that need to be fixed before more recent Odyssey sources can be ported/compiled for OS4.

The person to talk to about Odyssey is kas1e. He maintains the OS4 version.

Amiga X1000 with 2GB memory & OS 4.1FE + Radeon HD 5450

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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@nubechecorre
Quote:
It would be a dream to have a dedicated group of developers just for Firefox.. (me dreaming I know..)


If it was my dream they'd be working on working on an Amiga exclusive browser that supports all the latest technologies.

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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@xenic
Quote:
The person to talk to about Odyssey is kas1e. He maintains the OS4 version.

I'm wondering if anyone other than him has managed to compile Odyssey for AmigaOS.

It's pretty clear to me that we need more than Fab, deadwood, & kas1e to maintain the browser.

Hans

http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - more of my work
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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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@Rob
is not so simple mantain timberwolf . firefox jump about 30 new version from when timberwolf was born and much was did in the code . In future version of firefox (54 or 56 i dont remember exactly)will be impossible to have it on ppc and or ported to other not official os becasue firefox will use it own compiler .


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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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@tlosm

Compilers aren't portable? ;)

Vacca foeda. Sum, ergo edo

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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@tlosm Quote:
In future version of firefox (54 or 56 i dont remember exactly)will be impossible to have it on ppc and or ported to other not official os becasue firefox will use it own compiler

By "own compiler" I guess you mean it will use the Rust compiler/language for some stuff?

@orgin Quote:
Compilers aren't portable? ;)

Maybe "impossible" was the wrong word, but "too complex for anyone in Amiga world to do it" could have the same end result...

OTOH, I think that Rust uses LLVM for it's back end, and LLVM appears to support PPC, so it might not be so hard after all:
https://blog.rust-lang.org/2016/04/19/MIR.html
http://llvm.org/Features.html
(Although it might still be a lot of work, but I don't know enough to guess.)

Author of the PortablE programming language.
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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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And would it be hard to port TenFourFox ? I think it has already been duscussed but most of the PPC work has already be done.

http://www.floodgap.com/software/tenfourfox/

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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@K-L
Interesting, TenFourFox appears to be based upon the ESR version(s) of Firefox:
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/faq/

Even if TenFourFox wasn't viable, I wonder if the ESR version would still make it easier to port Firefox (and keep it "up to date")?

Author of the PortablE programming language.
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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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@K-L

wow that looks good for us PPC amigans hopefully

maybe we can setup a bounty to port this ???


Edited by 328gts on 2017/3/29 22:46:48
_______________________________
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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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@Hans
Quote:

BTW, how many people have actually managed to build TimberWolf or Odyssey from the source code repositories? Are either buildable natively on AmigaOS?

Would still like to know the answer to this. One thing that's sorely missing with both TimberWolf & Odyssey, is clear building instructions. If it were easy to build (and build natively), then more people might have a look at it.

@K-L

TenFourFox does sound promising... provided someone's willing to give it a shot. I'm sure that some of the TimberWolf work would come in handy.

Hans

http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - more of my work
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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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@ChrisH


impossible just because will be only x86 and Arm and packaged as not free (if i remember good).

are ages that im say teen4fox will be a right choice for amigaos. Cameron Kaiser did a more lighter browser Classilla is a free, open source browser for Mac OS 8.5 and 9 upgraded and compatible with html5 too.
If someone have the right knowledge there are the basis for start make a new browser for amigaos.

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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@Hans

Quote:
One thing that's sorely missing with both TimberWolf & Odyssey, is clear building instructions. If it were easy to build (and build natively), then more people might have a look at it.

I agree.

I haven't been lucky trying to compile Odyssey or Timberwolf-master. Locked up machine, files missing which do exist in the right dir and so on. Also I don't know what difference is between all those configure and make commands. (I'm not a Linux or Unix developer.)

Checking Firefox website and their instructions are for newer versions where they're using mach command to build it, it looks like.

I'm wondering if it could be possible to create an html datatypes class (based on WebKit) to handle html+css rendering and making a browser around that. So those two parts could be developed separately. Maybe making a separate Javascript library to split that too.

I'm looking for alfkil to finish Qt 5. Maybe it's easier to port some Qt 5 based web browser, if Qt 5 can be made to run fast enough.

Rock lobster bit me - so I'm here forever
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"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." - Seymour Cray
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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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@TSK

on qt4 there is midori and qpzilla (based on webkit), lastest version are for qt5 yes alfkill will help much with this new version of qt

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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@JosDuchIt

Quote:

Of course we need HTML5 & javascript, but odyssey has them both. Maybe some functionalities lacking in html5 , but which exactly, could that be documented?

Noone in their right mind would reimplement the missing features in webkit.
Quote:

Could those be added to the present Odyssey source?


Yes, by replacing the current webkit core with a new one. This is what causes the problems we have:

1. There was no compiler modern enough to build it for OS4 (don't know if they fixed that), otherwise a fairly big task. The newest webkit uses C++11 features. Our compiler only supports C++9 (I think).

2. The java-script engine is written for little-endian (x86, arm) now, and will crash on PPC big-endian hardware. Fixing this is very tedious and time consuming. The developers of webkit simply stopped caring about PPC support.

Software developer for Amiga OS3 and OS4.
Develops for OnyxSoft and the Amiga using E and C and occasionally C++
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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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I notice that Facebook is suddenly redirecting Odyssey to a "basic mobile" version, unless I tell it to spoof as "Chrome 32" (and even then it nags me to update to a newer version).

I know it's a bit off-topic, but is there any way to convince Odyssey to spoof as something less than 3 years out of date? edit: Looks like it's hard-coded into the executable :(

Author of the PortablE programming language.
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Re: We so need an updated browser!
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@Deniil
People are all too eager to throw out Odyssey for some reason, even though the problem is with JavaScriptCore in WebKit. They want Qt browsers, but those also use WebKit, it won't solve anything. ABFO.

This is just like television, only you can see much further.
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