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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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@fairlanefastbck

Quote:
What "lie" are you referring to exactly?


"..., because I am not sure if such a potentially volatile topic would be allowed here .", topics deleted just at will, censorship, blah, blah, blah... I think it's related only to posting rules, nothing else.

Some seem to find some kind of strange fun in repeating over and over that their posts will be deleted, that there is some kind of censorship here, when it's just that those garbage threads seen in other forums are not allowed here. I think points 5 and 6 of TOS are quite explicit about this, and IIRC that's the reason this website was created.

If you want to post what you think can be problematic, ask moderators first, or simply post it and wait for a reaction from mods, but don't post it saying "Hey, I post it but I think it could be deleted for being problematic", such statements spread, IMHO, a dark cloud over the site, a cloud of inexistent censorship.

Saluditos,

Ferr?n.

Amiga user since 1988
AOS4 Betatester
Member of ATO Spain
A1 Cfg
OS4 SCR
A1200
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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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@Ferry

Quote:
a cloud of inexistent censorship.


inexistent ? excuse me ?!

well.. since i'm bored, i'll loose a bit of my time to prove you otherwise:
i will post a new message in this thread just after this one, expressing my opinion. since everyone is entitled to it's own opinion, being deleted or edited, or anything that would modify the next post should be considered as censorship right ?

let's try.. look at the mext post i'm doing now

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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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@keisangi

i think amiga users are being made fool year after year,
being promised "bright time just around the corner" every now and then..

there's no new hardware, and the old one, they have back from 199x is
horribliy expensive an outdated (faulty) hardware.
they are being censored, modded and made fool on major amiga sites.
the amigaOS is an old cow it's API haven't evolved much since 1993.
it doesn't support modern standards, like utf8 or any form of stability mechanism such as memory protection for exemple.
it doesn't support large files (over 4gb). it doesn't burn DVD correctly,
lots documents cannot be viewed or edited on Amiga..

the system can be hard crashed by potentialy any task/apps
it doesn't have a browser supporting nowdays standards
98% of it's application base is completly outdated since late nineties

the uptime of the system of all amigaOS and clones doesn't exceed 3 day in average (and I'm being nice here)

and users are being deceived they're told all their problems is either because they didn't configure their system correctly or
they have bad motherboard battery / bad memory/ heat problem / quartz timing problems / cpu voltage configuration problems or whatever.

most modderators of all major amiga site are inspired by nazi practices:
censoring/ deleting / and only allowing the "official" opinion to be said or discussed. nothing else is usualy tolerated. (this really can't be right)

well, that's my opinion.. amiga has become the 3rd world of computing where the only "fun" stuff is to consider all this isn't evolving much through the years.


now let's see if there's censorship or not here ;)

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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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@keisangi

You sound disappointed !!

Are we nearly there yet ?
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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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@Outcast

Quote:

Outcast wrote:
@keisangi

You sound disappointed !!


Aren't we all a bit disappointed? Sad to watch our beloved platform going down the drain in the claws of the lawyers.

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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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@Outcast

kind of .. the Amiga terribly deceived me ..
it can't be used for nothing in a trusty way..
you're never sure when it gonna let you down,
crashing on you (loosing all the work done so far)
or simply refusing to boot anymore..

there was a time it was in advance compared to other machines around ..
but this is not the case anymore since 1993

i'm not saying it need to revolutionalize or take over the computer market, this won't happen.. but it could at least evolve enough to offer a certain degree of quality were customer don't get the impression the've been screwed ..

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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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@keisangi

Please do take this to heart:

"It's not what you are saying, it's how you say it"

and

"Just because you are interpretating a situation a certain way it does not mean that everyone else is interpretating it the same way as you"

Some people, not saying you in particular, seems to think that pointless angry outbursts, fights, accusing people for saying this or that or turning assumptions about other's intentions into 'facts' should be the norm for all posts made on amiga sites and all sites should focus on having just such posts. And that if you're not allowed to make an ass of yourself over and over then the site is a 'nazi' moderation site.

On amigans we are saying that people need to stop fighting, stop reacting angrily to everything people write and simply stop for a second and think "is this really what this other person is trying to say or is it all in my own head?" and "if I reply angrily will it really make it better, and how will it affect others?". If a post upsets you (plural form), first contact staff, don't make it worse by making yet another post that ads to the fire. One can't put out a fire by throwing gasoline at it, like some has done (even staff members sadly enough) in this very thread.

Vacca foeda. Sum, ergo edo

Mr Bobo Cornwater
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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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@keisangi

I have an A1-G4 that has been extremely reliable. I don't feel I have been screwed at all by buying it.

Ok.. so we don't have a modern browser ... that IS a big bug bear..

But that issue IS being worked on.

Are we nearly there yet ?
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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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@Ferry

Quote:

Ferry wrote:
@fairlanefastbck

Quote:
What "lie" are you referring to exactly?


"..., because I am not sure if such a potentially volatile topic would be allowed here .", topics deleted just at will, censorship, blah, blah, blah... I think it's related only to posting rules, nothing else.

Some seem to find some kind of strange fun in repeating over and over that their posts will be deleted, that there is some kind of censorship here, when it's just that those garbage threads seen in other forums are not allowed here. I think points 5 and 6 of TOS are quite explicit about this, and IIRC that's the reason this website was created.

If you want to post what you think can be problematic, ask moderators first, or simply post it and wait for a reaction from mods, but don't post it saying "Hey, I post it but I think it could be deleted for being problematic", such statements spread, IMHO, a dark cloud over the site, a cloud of inexistent censorship.

Saluditos,

Ferr?n.


The Statement of Intent being blank, but being refered to as important to know what is ok to post as per the TOS is problematic, like it or not. One of my first posts here was in regard to an EFIKA I bought. I did not know much at the time about red vs. blue history, aw.net issues that lead to amigans.net formation etc. Instead I got a terse note saying my thread was killed for TOS violation. There was no TOS violation as its written. To me in hindsight especially it was that it was apparently not in the spirit of the blank Statement of Intent for which some members here take for granted to know what its ideology is even though its not written down for all members to see. Perhaps if someone were to start writing that Statement of Intent it would help with what you characterize as a misconception of some about this board?

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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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@fairlanefastbck
Quote:
Perhaps if someone were to start writing that Statement of Intent it would help with what you characterize as a misconception of some about this board?

Please feel free to help. PM a draft to Orgin if you are serious.

ExecSG Team Lead
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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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Hi @ssolie

The broken record is really getting tiresome.

IIRC, that record label is very old one called "Caveat Emptor"!
Buying the A1 in 2002 was the dumbest thing I ever did/buy!
I'm glad I did !!!

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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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@fairlanefastbck

Quote:
The Statement of Intent being blank, but being refered to as important to know what is ok to post as per the TOS is problematic, like it or not. One of my first posts here was in regard to an EFIKA I bought. I did not know much at the time about red vs. blue history, aw.net issues that lead to amigans.net formation etc. Instead I got a terse note saying my thread was killed for TOS violation. There was no TOS violation as its written. To me in hindsight especially it was that it was apparently not in the spirit of the blank Statement of Intent for which some members here take for granted to know what its ideology is even though its not written down for all members to see. Perhaps if someone were to start writing that Statement of Intent it would help with what you characterize as a misconception of some about this board?


I don't know the exact circumstances of the deletion of your post, but it seems you missed this "NOTICE TO NEW MEMBERS: Please Read" before posting. It makes clear what's the motivation of this site even if you don't know anything about red vs. blue or aw issues.

Anyway, and as I have already said, I don't know why it was deleted. If you feel it was not fair, you can still complain/appeal to moderators.

Saluditos,

Ferr?n.

Amiga user since 1988
AOS4 Betatester
Member of ATO Spain
A1 Cfg
OS4 SCR
A1200
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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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@orgin

ok, i must say then:

i think the reaction i obtained regarding my intentionaly provocative post is right. This particular time ..

as if it was just to prove me wrong, like if this site wasn't heavily moderated and all..

i must say i'm quite surprised i haven't been deleted, my post erased and removed privilege to post this time.

cause last time on the thread "when?" in "too hot to handle" forum has been treated this way. for a simple word..

i said amigans are in the same old sh*t situation and solie locked the thread... it wasn't fair. it was a good example as what happen in general around amiga sites..

so even if my particular post in this thread haven't removed or locked, in the other thread it was.

that can't be right. and while i agree with the two sentence you adviced my to take to my heart and remember.. i think heavily moderating ppl and prevent them to speak freely will inevitably lead to burst of anger. such as the situation around amiga..
it's bad and lead to frustration and possibly to anger.

instead of shutting ppl's mouth by force, and allowing only official opinion and thoughts to be discussed a real solution concerning the situation should be searched. even through hot discussion. a solution to turn this os in something usable on buyable hardware. there's no probem without solution..

it's the same as in old days ppl said pci buses cannot be used on amiga, it's not technicaly feasible, and now look today there's lots of pci solutions for amiga..

it's clear there's a solution regarding stability of amigos.
it's clear there's a solution reagrding utf8 support on amigaos, and same goes for browsers, large file support, and all the rest. saying it can't be is simply wrong.

take morphos for exemple, marcik created alone an upto date browser.. and if i'm not mistaken, it's among his first projects .. cause i've never heard of anything else he might have done. so he's not an old amiga guru using black magic to
do what he's doing.. so solution for the of the problems can be found too.

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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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@moderators

while i'm at it,

what's with obession of avoid off topic in forums ?
it's a public forum right ? let the public decide for themselves what they want to disccuss where they want to diiscuss..
everyone is a grown person..
noone's stopped to start a new thread if needed..
if a particular topic go way too much off topic i mean..

is it moderator like it when it's all keep in tidy order and all so they can't stand or tolerate off topic ?
this is part of the "military feeling one get around amiga forum i was talkin about earlier..

is it so bad to be off topic ? is it anarchy you fear ? ;)
public forums always have been a maelstrom a melting pot of random thoughts an ideas.. off topic is good too..

i personaly think forums shouldn't be moderated at all unless someone post spam, very strong insults and threats, link to pornography with childrens or any other bad things completly unrelated to the very purpose of the forum in question.

it's unfair someone with moderation attributes can popup every once and then and tell ppl what they should speak about, how and when and if otherwise fear being removed , locked or deleted..

yes .. moderator shouldn't use their power at all, unless such accidents happens.. what they're doing is playing trigger happy robocop.. it's an abuse of power..

something went very bad around amiga ..

and this site looks "tolerant" compared to amigaworld.net lol

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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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@keisangi
Quote:
i said amigans are in the same old sh*t situation and solie locked the thread... it wasn't fair. it was a good example as what happen in general around amiga sites..

I locked the thread because you were not listening to your peers. Look back at your behaviour. Your peers asked you to calm down several times and stop being so hostile. You continued to ignore everyone. You started at least 3 threads on the same topic and kept on attacking. No, I locked the thread because you continued to show total disrespect for your peers. I did not lock the thread because you said shit. I hope this now crystal clear.

ExecSG Team Lead
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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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@ssolie

not quite..
you might think i give to much credit to myself for saying this but, i find convenient for the official image of the OS and allowed opinions that thoses things i was saying were locked.. This thread was locked when the disscusion became difficult to answer for tetisoft or other offical developpers..

some users around even started to agree with some parts of my statments about problems AmigaOS and clones systems are facing for stubbornly trying to keep compatibillity with an api from past era (1993).

AmigaOS need to evolve with todays standard.. and when i say "today" i'm being nice cause utf8 / large files support / modern browser / and getting an OS stable and protected from it's own tasks! is in almost every systems around since quite a while.

only AmigaOS is left in the cold.. without any of thoses features.. making it looking an extremely weak alternative to any other os.

and when i started to get finally some bits of answer like:
- it will take a while to implement thoses
- or: it may not be possible to implement thoses at all ?
- or: if thoses features would be there it wouldn't be AmigaOS anymore ?

the thread was locked .. how convenient..

I'm willing to start a new thread about this if necessary.
but i think anyway AmigaOS will need to provide an answer to thoses problem.. and the sooner the better.. imho

but then i might be deleted or ignored again..
but i don't mind .. thoses problems are big enough to show themselves to anyone.. thoses questions will be asked again by others .. they simply cannot be ignored.

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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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@keisangi

And yet you still don't get it.

You still turn your own assumptions of other people intents into 'facts'. Do not continue to mix up moderation of behavior and moderation of opinions.

To repeat myself:

Quote:

"It's not what you are saying, it's how you say it"

and

"Just because you are interpretating a situation a certain way it does not mean that everyone else is interpretating it the same way as you"



About off topic: If you need to discuss something off topic, then create a new thread. It has nothing to do with opinion-moderation. Having thread after thread hijacked by the same stuff just makes people not bother to try to get a discussion about a certain topic because they know that the thread will just spin off elsewhere. Look at this thread for example, at this point it's impossible to discuss the original topic because you have to wade through tons of other crap to follow it. It's very simple to create a new thread.


Edited by orgin on 2007/8/11 10:33:54
Vacca foeda. Sum, ergo edo

Mr Bobo Cornwater
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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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@keisangi

I don't agree with your opinion about anarchy and moderation. I am also not sure why you are complaining, because you knew everything when you registered here and agreed to the terms. Otherwise you can post on another black/green website without moderation. But I think they will laugh about you if you complain about OS4!

The only thing that I didn't like here in the past was when a post of mine was deleted, but I did not get any explanation or PM why this happened. A short explanation would have been good and would have helped me to understand what I did wrong, so that I can improve in the future. I was certainly not aware of doing anything against TOS when I posted.

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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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@keisangi

One wonders why, when you are given to feel about the whole amiga scene the way you do, you waste your time hanging round here .

If you don't like it, leave.

Sheesh, its hardly rocket science, no one is tying your hands down. etc.

Mikey C

No cause is lost if there is but one fool left to fight for it.
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Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
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@keisangi

Quote:

keisangi wrote:
This thread was locked when the disscusion became difficult to answer for tetisoft or other offical developpers..


If you would post and argue like an adult, it might even be possible to discuss with you. However, you argue like a spoilt 13 year old brat that tries to hold his breath when he doesn't get what he wants.

Quote:
some users around even started to agree with some parts of my statments about problems AmigaOS and clones systems are facing for stubbornly trying to keep compatibillity with an api from past era (1993).


Oh I agree with some of the points (except for the fact that OS 4 has large file supports since a while). It's just that since you cannot argue without insulting someone, or being "funny", there is no way I am going to discuss anything with you.

Quote:
AmigaOS need to evolve with todays standard.. and when i say "today" i'm being nice cause utf8 / large files support / modern browser / and getting an OS stable and protected from it's own tasks! is in almost every systems around since quite a while.


As I said, large file support is already in, as you would know if you had any idea what you are talking about.

You know pretty little about AmigaOS obviously if you think you can build in all-out memory protection into it - this is not possible in the current incarnation, and it will need to move to an incompatible API at one point to achieve this. That will happen, mind you, but not just now.

It just goes to prove you are not thinking about what you ask, you are just stomping your foot, calling everybody fools, and bitch about "uptimes".

Quote:
- or: it may not be possible to implement thoses at all ?


See above.

Quote:
the thread was locked .. how convenient..


It probably didn't have much to do with convenience but rather with your behavior.

Quote:
but then i might be deleted or ignored again..
but i don't mind .. thoses problems are big enough to show themselves to anyone.. thoses questions will be asked again by others .. they simply cannot be ignored.


I am not afraid of these questions, and I don't mind answering them. I just want them asked in a mature manner. If you would learn how to communicate, we might talk, but apparently, you are totally unable to do that, and as long as that is the case, I'm sorry you will get ignored, or someone will tell you his opinion about you - and believe me, I am holding back with it.

Seriously, if you do want to contact me write me a mail. You're more likely to get a reply then.
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