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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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@Hedeon

Hey my friend nice to see you here.
For all who don’t know Hedeon is the creator of
awesome sonnet.library and of course ReWarp.

Hope you guys can achieve Amiga Milestones
sharing your synergy effects.

I want to take this opportunity to thank you Hedeon
for your great work done in the past and I always like
to think back to our Cellar-Session where you made
Classic Amiga’s first PowerPC G4 400MHz/1M L2 work.

And thanks to Joerg and Kas1e and you other awesome guys.

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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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@all

Funny coincidence!

Wipeout Source Code Released:)

psx & Windows versions. arriving soon.



Today we have released the source code to Wipeout by Psygnosis

Sam460ex 2GB 120Gb SSD&1Tb HD7750 Envy24HT A-Eon Drv 2.10+Warp3D New Uboot
Apollo v4 Standalone
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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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With Wipeout - i suspect less of a licence problem but
that it was not a Hyperion game. WO was published by Digital Images
If i remember correctly ,
Developed i think if i do not remember wrong by Sam Jordan
(Warpup author also). I think he left Amiga long ago.
Licence issues would surprise me. Normally such licences
are just to the OS used. Which version of AmigaOS
does not matter. Of course i have not seen this specific
licence so no idea what they wrote in the licence - but my suspicion is that the issue is
the people who have the source code of wo2097 for Amiga left
Amiga long ago.

Sin -!f licence permits i could do a port. I was one of
the two people who were doing the linux version for
Hyperion. Could be it was only licensed for Linux,
I am not sure. I know Hyperion still got my source
code of it.

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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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@TheMagicSN

I really don't think there will be any issue with licence. It's open sourced so anyone could make a port to AmigaOS or any other machine.

If you released a first port years ago you could go quite easily for a second new port from scratch.
If you'll decide for a go please let also old AmigaNG systems like A1/Peg2/Sam boards to enjoy the game.

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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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@TheMagicSN

Wipeout 2097 was published by Blittersoft with Digital Images being the development team. I'm not sure which party got the license from Psygnosis and whether or not Blittersoft, who are now Virtual Programming, still have the publishing rights. Paul Lesurf is still involved with VP who were also involved the the Mac port of Wipeout 2097 so if you can get hold of him you might find some answers.

I guess Ben is the person to talk to about SIN and potentially other games Hyperion got licenses for.

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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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From what I've heard their license for SiN expired a long time ago.

This is just like television, only you can see much further.
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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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Hi!

@BSzili:

I really doubt such licences have an "expiry date" despite people
bringing this up on forums again and again. Though in case of Sin I am not sure if an Amiga licence was included back then or if it was only Linux licence with a chance for Amiga licence "later".

But I do not believe the "licence timed out" argument no matter for what game.

@Rob:

>I guess Ben is the person to talk to about SIN and potentially >other games Hyperion got licenses for.

Correct.

@Flash:

>I really don't think there will be any issue with licence. It's >open sourced so anyone could make a port to AmigaOS or any other >machine.

On which game was this referring to ? Wipeout ? Is this open sourced now ? Sin definitely isn't.

>If you released a first port years ago you could go quite easily >for a second new port from scratch.
>If you'll decide for a go please let also old AmigaNG systems >like A1/Peg2/Sam boards to enjoy the game.

As to Sin - well if the license situation can be resolved I will complete my Sin port (for Hyperion) from "really many years ago".

As to A1/Peg2/Sam:

Depends on Speed. I remember back then the game (Sin) ran too slow. I have no doubt it will run fast enough for x1000/x5000, on the others I do not know. I cannot remember if the "too slow" was only old Classic Amigas + PPC Accelerators or if it was fast enough on A1 800 MHz back then or if it was too slow for both (but I suspect it was only for the Classic Amigas + PPC too slow - they still were a factor back then). As I said I only remember "it was too slow on some hardware", cannot remember exactly which was the limit.

If a port will be done (which depends on license situation) it will not be done for a specific hardware. It will be for AmigaOS 4. And there will be a MiniGL Renderer, and a GL4ES renderer (I do not think software renderer will make much sense on Sin, see my remarks about Speed above) - assuming I will be doing the port. Q2 GL4ES Renderer was done pretty fast recently (and BTW with around 70% speedup compared to the MiniGL Renderer). I needed no long time to do the GL4ES renderer.

Remember also we now have much better graphics boards than "back then". Back then we had Permedia 2. Now we have RadeonHD/RadeonRX, independent if x1000 or A1/Peg/Sam (I assume they can use them too, right ?). This should make a difference.

Best regards,
Steffen

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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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As I understand in post #42 Wipeout code is now opensourced.
Maybe you have to buy still a valid licenced CD for other platforms, or also the original one for Amiga, but now you can build a native OS4/MorphOS binary, with full support to AmigaNG hardware.

As for speed I'm quite sure all PowerPC machines are able to run Wipeout at full speed. Remember Wipeout was released for first generation Sony Playstation, it was really slow compared to any NG Amiga.
Maybe first generation of NG Amiga that rely on RV200 radeon gfx chip could have some issue at fullhd resolution.

Memento audere semper!
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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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@TheMagicSN
IANAL, but this is what I have been told. If it's not true then all the better.

This is just like television, only you can see much further.
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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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To remind you, Wipeout 2097 in this original WarpOS version works on OS 4 with the Novabridge and ReWarp libraries. Of course, it did have some small issues, which will be nice to have fixed, but they do not affect gameplay, and you can play the original WarpOS version with no problems over Novabridge with ReWarp. That's how it plays on my X5K:

https://youtu.be/WUIHDnJ947U?t=677

The game is ultra-fast, and you need to limit the FPS in your options or you will be out of sync.

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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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@flash

I was not sure if your earlier post was regarding Wipeout or Sin. My
comments were mostly regarding Sin.

As to Wipeout being opensource i am not sure if
this twitterpost leads to an authentic opensource release
or a leaked source. Anybody knows who this „Forest
of Illusion“ person is?

Also if it is psx source code building an Amiga port from
it might be not trivial.

BSzili, you have been told by whom?

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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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@TheMagicSN

Quote:
Now we have RadeonHD/RadeonRX, independent if x1000 or A1/Peg/Sam (I assume they can use them too, right ?). This should make a difference.


Pegasos II cannot see anything the other side of PCI-PCIe bus but Sam440 abd recently A1 XE have been proven to work with Southern Islands cards. Sailor's tests on A1 showed that some ops are slower compared to the AGP Radeon 9000 due to the PCIe cards only working in a 33Mhz slot but when you run Warp3D Nova code it really shines.

Quote:
As I understand in post #42 Wipeout code is now opensourced.


Wipout is the prequel to Wipout 2097 which was ported to Amiga. If it's possible a port would be welcome.

@Kas1e
Quote:
o remind you, Wipeout 2097 in this original WarpOS version works on OS 4 with the Novabridge and ReWarp libraries.


I managed to track down Paul Lesurf on Facebook and asked if VP still have the rights to publish 2097 for Amiga. It would be great if people could buy it again and if they still have source code it could be a bonus. Hopefully he'll reply, even if it's bad news.

@TheMagicSN

Quote:
As to Wipeout being opensource i am not sure if this twitterpost leads to an authentic opensource release or a leaked source.


It says it's not official in the thread.

Quote:
Also if it is psx source code building an Amiga port from it might be not trivial.


The post says the Windows version is also included but it's not worth looking at when you could end up in Son'y cross hairs.

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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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@RobQuote:
Rob wrote:@TheMagicSN

Pegasos II cannot see anything the other side of PCI-PCIe bus but Sam440 abd recently A1 XE have been proven to work with Southern Islands cards. Sailor's tests on A1 showed that some ops are slower compared to the AGP Radeon 9000 due to the PCIe cards only working in a 33Mhz slot but when you run Warp3D Nova code it really shines.



Ah i see. Didn’t know that. Anyways for Wipeout no
problem. If enough for Sin will be seen assuming
the license problem will be fixed, i would still
assume those systems should be fine.

Quote:

Quote:
As I understand in post #42 Wipeout code is now opensourced.


Wipout is the prequel to Wipout 2097 which was ported to Amiga. If it's possible a port would be welcome.


Still a real opensource release would be needed for this.

Quote:

I managed to track down Paul Lesurf on Facebook and asked if VP still have the rights to publish 2097 for Amiga. It would be great if people could buy it again and if they still have source code it could be a bonus. Hopefully he'll reply, even if it's bad news.


I see. Thumbs crossed ;)

Quote:

@TheMagicSN

The post says the Windows version is also included but it's not worth looking at when you could end up in Son'y cross hairs.

[/quote]

Exactly. Leaks are useless for us.

MagicSN

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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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@TheMagicSN
Ah, some guy. I was really interested in doing the OS4 port of SiN back in the 2010s. Anyway, back to Wipeout.

This is just like television, only you can see much further.
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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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@BSzili

About Wipeout from Windows sources (it's visual studio project) should be not very hard, for an experienced programmer, make an Amiga version via cross compiler.

WO2097 WarpOS version is buggy (some degug code still enabled poking chip ram) and on my OS4 is unplayable, instead under MorphOS (with same hardware Pegasos 2) it runs much better.

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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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@Flash
Quote:

and on my OS4 is unplayable, instead under MorphOS (with same hardware Pegasos 2) it runs much better.


If you on pegasos2, or on anything else where you have no NovaBridge, then yeah, it probabaly can be buggy, but firstly try with new/good powerpc.library from ReWarp and new warp3dppc.library from ReWarp3D : it may then works fine even on pegasos2.

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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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@Flash:

>About Wipeout from Windows sources (it's visual studio project) >should be not very hard, for an experienced programmer, make an >Amiga version via cross compiler.

It does not matter if a Cross-Compiler or a native compiler is used. You probably misunderstand what a Cross-Compiler does.

All it does is that you can compile code which ALREADY HAS BEEN PORTED to AmigaOS on a PC. So for example you can compile on one machine and test on another machine, and if your current exe crashes you don't need to start the editor and everything again.

It does NOT convert Windows APIs into Amiga APIs as I assume from your comment you think.

Also without checking the code of Wipeout (I didn't, as it is probably leaked, not much interest for me) it is hard to say how hard to port it is. This mainly depends on what 3D API was used. For example if Direct3D was used it would be very hard to port. While if OpenGL was used (but with such an old game I doubt this) it might be much easier.

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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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@TheMagicSN

Yes I know about different API.
What I intend to say is for Visual Studio there are plugins to cross compile for OS4.
About OpenGL there are also PSX sources to look inside, for sure there's not any DirectX API inside there.

Waiting to resolve licence issues here there's the archive just to give a look at project

Here instead there are some reactions and considerations to the leacked release

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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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@Flash
Quote:

What I intend to say is for Visual Studio there are plugins to cross compile for OS4.


They not port anything for still, that only for cross-compile on visual studio, while problems all remains the same. And having or not having plugins for visual stufio or for any other studio which help to call "ppc-amigaos-gcc" binary, in no way help with anything. Maybe only to those ones who love working with VisualStudio.

But if you refer to the fact that their makefiles sripts are visual studio based, then makefiles is not of problems at all, and the less of problems one need to worry about. Problems is real coding and porting, especially when it not SDL, or/and OpenGL, but DirectX API or some sort of platform specific stuff.

Porting anything from DirectX to OpenGL is reall work to be involved, which most of us can't do, and even proffesionals will loose lot of time on it.

Quote:

About OpenGL there are also PSX sources to look inside, for sure there's not any DirectX API inside there.


Rigth, MESA it also nothing hard, just instead of any render you need to use Warp3DNova, and we have full Mesa. Easy :)

It's really hard to port things which writting in not cross-platform way, but have different render for each system. If it only was that easy that easy, we already will have everything on os4 ported. Exactly issues is this DirectX , or PSX code, or whatever which not native-API ports. It's not like you have code for DirectX, or for PSX, then hey, that cool, will do opengl version of this code for a day. No no, not even close to.


Edited by kas1e on 2022/12/11 13:19:57
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Re: Wipeout2097 progress
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>What I intend to say is for Visual Studio there are plugins to >cross compile for OS4.

Again - crosscompiling does not have ANY advantage over using a native compiler asides from that you do not need a physical Amiga for it.

Myselves I use for my ports a Cross-Compiler based on cygwin on a Windows system (and transfer executables for testing to my physical Amiga x1000 then). But no matter what compiler you use - as to the matter of porting it is exactly the same effort, no matter if you use a cross compiler or a native compiler.

>About OpenGL there are also PSX sources to look inside, for sure >there's not any DirectX API inside there.

Adapting PSX Sources would be more work than adapting Direct3D sources probably...

Sure, all possible. But that sort of effort you usually don't do, if there is no chance on a license. Once a license exists - different story

There is actually a huge list of what games are available in source code (commercial games I mean). I found it always annoying they do not split the list by games leaked and games non-leaked.

Makes working myselves through the list pretty tedious read.

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