Attempting to upgrade Sam 440 with an R7 240 or HD 7770

Hi guys.

So I have been reading articles and posts with a view to helping Gebrochen get an R7 240 or even HD 7770 working on his Sam 440.

Currently he has PCIe bridge with a PEX. Not sure what chip. He also has a PCIe riser with a PCE164P model. Which totally confused me as I could not figure out why his card was slanted at a bad looking angle.

The R7 240 fits fine in the PEX but doesn't work in OS4. It comes up fine in UBoot but breaks when OS4 tries to open a boot logo.

The same happens with the riser card in an attempt to power the card. Uboot can show but OS4 will not.

It had become a bit convoluted at one point. The R7 was plugged into the PCIe riser which was then plugged into the PCIe bridge with a USB3 cable and then finally the PCIe bridge was plugged into the PCI slot. But that's not all! Then finally power was needed to be plugged into the PCIe riser. What a nightmare!

The HD 7770 was even worse! Needing power both on the video card and riser card. Oh man!

Clearly there seems to be a power issue here but not even supplying extra power through convoluted solutions solved it. To me it looks like even the basic PEX bridge is not designed correctly as it has no power inputs. Or it's only designed for low power PCIe cards despite having a full sized 16x PCIe slot.

What's needed is a PCIe bridge with power inputs but does anyone make any? I see mention of this P17C9X chip but again do any bridge cards with that chip have power inputs? If not I see the same problem occurring. Plus connecting a 16x card through a 1x lane would be crippling for performance. So I don't think the riser solution will help here. Another, ahem, PCIe card that serves to only provide power and takes input is needed. Are there any?

The R7 has no power input so relies on PCIe bus for power. The HD does have power inputs but may not have enough power supplied. What's unclear is where power can be plugged into the riser. I looked up the PCE164P model and could not find any manual for it. I found a video but the card has input and molex on one side and input on the back. Are they all inputs? Do they all need connecting for maximum power input? It's not clear to me.

The PSU is a ROCK 500W and I wonder if that needs an upgrade as well? I saw one power output for video cards. But a clear lack of power outputs as some drives needed dual adaptors. An SSD is still intended to be installed but was failing to show up as well. There could be a power issue here. Perhaps a new PSU would solve it? Or maybe not.

One thing I notice is the following line in all failed cards and then it stops:


However, I see this line in working cards. But more lines follow. Is there a guide on what hardware is needed? Including compatible PSU? A 5450 works in PCIe bridge with OS4. An R7 240 and HD 7770 do not work in OS4 with either bridge or powered riser. All work in UBoot.

@Hypex

You're making me feel bad, I may have forgotten to mention that Geennaam has suggested for me to consider this as an option as it worked for him :

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Ex ... I1PEX1/dp/B0037ECAM2?th=1

My apologies if I had indeed forgotten to mention it, but while you were helping me I was technically helping Juzzoe with his laptop issue that day, which we resolved.

No the 500w power supply is ample, I had a 400w in there and that was a completely different story, since the 500w upgrade ( donated from another friend the PSU BTW, (Quadballz), anyhow, it gave more than ample power....

If the PSU would be the issue you wouldn't see anything in U boot to begin with AFAIk.

So, I haven't managed to get around purchasing this, among a sudden Onslaught of other things needed (more pressing) for the house hold.

Thank you for all of your help and everyone else's thus far.

The patience on the Amigans.net forums and discord far outweighs others from my experience when talking about Amiga OS4 and beyond.

It seems other forums are heavily against the idea of modern gen systems purely based on bias of expense alone (understandable in a way) but not understandable to make someone who bought a modern gen and totally make them feel they made a bad decision..

I think it is not so, Amiga OS4.1fe is an amazing operating system and far more use-able than any classic Operating system I've used, even the latest 3.2.2 still seems to be missing so much( that I'm going around the internet finding this and finding that to make things work)

At least In Amiga Os4.1fe its usually just a missing library and that's it, done, quick search and download and things work.

One thing is for sure, I am really also enjoying my classic machine with the classic 520, but again things could have been included, like Amiga Chat GPT, the person could have at least included the needed library ( aren't libraries free usually?)

I can understand why not to include the narrator.device, but most classic Amiga users will probably have the original copy of Amiga 1.3...

Anyhow I digress, back to the video GPU for SAM flex,
It'll work in a months time Im guessing when the next adapter arrives, at least so I am oping so for that cost....

@Hypex

you not need powered PCI-PCIe adapter - geennaam's scheme works for me.

Working and proved connection is:

1. Sam440ep-flex PCI 66 MHz
2. PCI-PCIe bridge ( second photo in paragraph 3.1 - this is with chip P17C9X. You need no additional power here, power is drawn from PCI slot.
3. PCIe x1 -> x16 powered riser (common name on ebay is Powered USB3.0 GPU Riser Extender or mining rig adapter ) - see photo three in the same paragraph. You have to connect this adapter to power.
4. PCIe x16 graphics card

This should works for all PCIe cards upto 75W. More powerful cards need additional power ( PCIe power plug 6-pin, 8-pin ). Above mentioned HD 7770 ( 80W) probably needs 1x 6-pin.

@Gebrochen

Oh sorry. I just wanted to include all the information in one thread. Rather than have it spread over forum posts. And also list what hardware and configurations had been tested.

You had mentioned the StarTech device, even if not by exact brand, but think it was confused by some discussion about Chinese chips and Japanese chips lol.

My X1000 has a 500W supply as well. My main concern is not having enough cables for each device separately and needing to double up on power cables. Plus some basic PSUs can be lacking against better models. You will recall the first PSU in your Sam that blew out. The one now in working order is certainly better.

There's a lot 68K people who are 68K all the way and nothing else. I see that as being stuck in the past. They define the Amiga as this one and only platform with CPU and chipset. That is unrealistic. They should know, unless they lived under an Amiga rock, that Commodore had plans to replace the Amiga with a new follow up with different CPU and 3d chipset. Most, at least on Facebook, don't seem to know or have followed Amiga history for the past 30 years! They all tend to go on about the same thing, that's not a real Amiga, it doesn't have a 68K, I cant play games off floppy. OMG are they serious? The current OS4 boards are not and never been advertised as being an Amiga. Can they actually read? Last I checked those people aren't still running a DX486 DOS PC or 68040 OS7 Mac. But the way they talk is like a bunch of aging Neanderthals with their head stuck in ancient rocks!

I'm not sure what AmigaGPT needs. But an aging issue is Commodore dropped speech support in OS2. Seems silly doesn't it? Must be cost cutting as usual. Seems OS1.3 is the goto Workbench for things they removed like AmigaBASIC and speech binaries. There would be surely free speech libraries they could use. The one C= used which Apple may have used as well is old now so surely there is a better replacement.

Anyway so it looks like the hardware issues will be solved soon. If only you or I knew about needing another PCI bridge. You could have saved some money and time. By buying that instead of the R7 240. When it's likely the HD 7770 has as much chance of working. And does look more powerful in the score.

In the meantime I will continue to diagnose why my R7 250 freezes still. I'm supposing it to be a lost cause by now. The wreckage which is Update 2 continues to haunt me, as even after the hot fix, it still has the bug included which freezes my Workbench on boot and will continue to do so as we enter into winter time.

@sailor

Thanks for your summary which is obviously a short list built from lots of time and testing.

Why I brought up a possible powered PCI-PCIe adapter is to provide a neat solution using only one bridge board between PCI and the graphic card. As it stands now, in a manner of speaking, is the need for riser for power complicates it as now it needs to be some hack with a loose graphic card sitting around in the case. Each to their own. But a random looking card at odd angles with cables all over the place going in and out of the case is not an optimum solution in my eyes.

Also, mining rig, I didn't know the mining industry used PCIe riser cards in diamond cut mines lol.

The 7770 does have at least one power input. So two will be needed here. One for riser and one for carder.

@Hypex

Well, the r7 240 isn't a waste, as technically I might need this card in future for the old 440ep which James plans on giving back to me....(Oh crap, it means Ill also need to buy yet another adapter......lol)

I should have never given that or the spare flex board away it seems, as years later I have cool ideas, like having two Amigas set up and networking this way for fun

Yeah I know, easier to do on PC, but, not as fun watching my friends confused windoze brains trying to use the Amiga OS.... lol

Albeit having said that, anyone who's used a mac before will probably find it relatively quick and easy to understand and even possibly get annoyed at the OS for not auto arranging icons, for example, when opening up a drawer.

@sailor

A true born LEGEND

@Gebrochen

Quote:

Well, perhaps next time, you could try one of those PCI1PEX1 cards for some variety. You never know your luck if it works. Variety is the spice of life!

Quote:

What were they trying to do?

Well actually, if you can get both online normally, there both on the network.

But networked over a cross link, well, Miami was good for that like a Mac with internet sharing features. I gave up on that almost 20 years ago with Roadshow. It just needed too much manual work. Where as with Miami or MiamiDX it may have been, it was built in, it just needed one Amiga to connect to the other and both were online.

Quote:

Yes I find that annoying these days as well. And even after the three actions needed to it, it can still not look right after. The reason it's like that is to avoid writing to disk. Since AmigaOS started as a floppy OS. And this avoiding of writing has continued on, though it may seem quaint now, so the disk isn't constantly thrashed. This is evident in the design of specific save/use/cancel in requesters where as in other desktops, which I also see as confusing, the close window action actually saves. The AmiDock tends to save on change though which differs from standard AmigaOS practice.

@Hypex

You know I was referring to modern gen Amiga systems right? lol

I mean, if I were to try another card, it would be a 7450, as that card requires the same power to run as the 5450

HOWEVER

According to geennamm, it doesnt have backward compatibility for 5v, meaning, despite me having ample PSU power, without an rail adapter, it still wont work.....

Alas, back to square 1, I either go back to a 9250, 9200, or grab the 460le, and use its pcie slot.....

Albeit having said that, I'd have to double check with the community here if the 460le would be able to run a r7 240 or whatever without an adapter with its pcie slot thats included, knowing my luck in Amiga land, nothing will be that simple.

I have now all the needed hardware.

1. Sam440ep-flex PCI 66 MHz
2. PCI-PCIe bridge ( second photo in paragraph 3.1 - this is with chip P17C9X. You need no additional power here, power is drawn from PCI slot.
3. PCIe x1 -> x16 powered riser (common name on ebay is Powered USB3.0 GPU Riser Extender or mining rig adapter ) - see photo three in the same paragraph. You have to connect this adapter to power.
4. Radeon HD 7850

I have a Enhance Software it should have a correct driver??

What are excat steps to make my Amoga OS install to support Radeon HD card?

1 - Install Enhancer softare.
2 - Plug Radeon HD.
3 - Boot machine?

After those three steps Sam get stuck to "loading done, now launching kickstart".

after step 1. I updated everything.

https://youtu.be/OV70Kg6jDBc?feature=shared

@utri007

Do you have the radeonhd entry in your kicklayout?
iirc os4 for the sam440 does not have it by default but other systems where a radeonhd is expected to run have it and the radeonhd-lite driver.

@smf

What it is? If Enhancer installer doesn't add it, I dont have it. Kicklayout search gives only this thread.

@utri007
According to https://wiki.amiga.org/index.php?title=RadeonHD#Installation the Enhancer installer doesn't add it to the Kicklayout if it's not there yet (AmigaOne SE/XE/µA1, Pegasos2, classic Amigas and Sam440) but just updates the Lite version of the RadeonHD driver, where available (X1000, X5000, Sam460, A1222), to the full version.

@joerg

Thanks! That did a trick.


Result wasn't big success any way.

Radeon HD 7850 card didn't work. After kickstart screen just got black and "no signal". Tested both DVI and HDMI connectors.

Radeon HD 4850 card worked, but it wasn't what I wanted and also noticed that restarting machine with was a problem. Getting back to OS after restart required multiple attempts. Screen just got black, no UBoot or kickstart loading texts. Few times reset worked, but 8 of 10 reboots required lots of patience.

It might be a loose connector PCIe 1x or something else, but troubles was not worth of it, so I restored Radeon 9250 card.

I left MODULE KICKSTART/RadeonHD.chip text to kicklayout file, I quest it doesn't do any harm? Maybe one day I got another Radeon HD card to test.

EDIT

These cards are currently available for a very little money.

XFX Radeon HD 7950 3 Gt
Club 3D Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition

Steps to add PCIe GFX card to Sam 440ep Flex

Need to have HW :

1. Sam440ep-flex PCI 66 MHz
2. PCI-PCIe bridge ( second photo in paragraph 3.1 - this is with chip P17C9X. You need no additional power here, power is drawn from PCI slot.
3. PCIe x1 -> x16 powered riser (common name on ebay is Powered USB3.0 GPU Riser Extender or mining rig adapter ) - see photo three in the same paragraph. You have to connect this adapter to power.
4. Suitable Radeon card.

What to do BEFORE Radeon HD and other HW install.

1 - Install Enhancer software.
2 - update it.
3 - add following text to Kicklayout file : MODULE Kickstart/RadeonHD.chip
4 - Turn OFF Amiga
5 - Plug Radeon HD and bridges.
6 - Boot machine.


https://wiki.amiga.org/index.php?title=RadeonHD#Installation

I tried 2 R7 240 in a Sam460ex. OS4 crashes after a few seconds. Both cards work fine in a PC. I guess our driver doesn't like this model

@Elwood

If you have not and have a chance to please test again with the RadeonHD version 5.20 driver

Question is, can I get Radeon HD 77XX - 79XX card work with this HW and SW? Or Am I spending money and time without a possibility to succes?

I have a "Enhancer Software, PowerPC version 4.X", should these drivers work with Sam 440EP Flex?

@Gebrochen

Yes I know you were thinking of modern AmigaOS. Which, funny as it is, is more colourful than a standard Windows desktop which has a plain boring appearance that looks old fashioned to me but they called it modern in today's world.

Even Windows 3.1, which is closer to AmigaOS 3.1, is more colourful than Windows 11. Go figure!

But what's their problem? They plug things into Windows and they mostly work. But plug something into AmigaOS and find it doesn't, it works backwards, and must be added by hand?