No. "plans" means they expect to work on it in the future. "porting now" means they are actively working on it - which they are! Yes, they are at the design/exploration phase (*), but that is part of the coding process too.
I like your optimism, hope it will pretty fast by developing, fast by speed in end, and without too much bugs and problems :)
ps. Just some english specific question : did "being ported" words mean "already done" , or it mean "in the developing for now" ?
@Dax Quote:
Hans mentioned he was looking at it months ago, if you combine his expertise on graphic drivers with the work already done on Aros (which he can look at and learn from) you get only one thing: advanced 3D coming to AmigaOS soon
All in all, its already pretty good that they (Hyperion) understand that all that 2d/3d stuff are high priority for end users. And of course AROS code will help for better understanding, but still, aros version are x86 (little endian) which make big sense, and aros version use only some 3d party linux drivers (noveau) , while aos4 version will use native radeon drivers, which in end will be pretty different from AROS realisation for sure.
+ Our drivers for radeons are true "aos4 specific and native", which done with having in mind all that gallium/mesa stuff, and that mean, that if everything will be done right, and with interest to make it as good as possible , we can have pretty good realisation.
But yes, deadwood with his realisation for aros, show that all of this possible and even possible for one man => waiting for os4 bomb-galium ! :)
"already done" would have been "is ported" or "has been ported".
Yep, i understand its the same, and its reasson why i say that its to early to say like something already done :) By this words i understand that it in plans/plannig, but all of this are hi-priority for now.
ssolie wrote: @ChrisH There was a lot of important news and road map info. that seems to have been completely missed.
I plan to rectify the situation in the next couple of days with a show report.
I personally didn't miss the news and I am sure I'm not alone. News are very good and knowing that OS4 was shown on both Sam460 and X1000 is a big achievement.
In addition, are the presentations (and yours) available ?
"already done" would have been "is ported" or "has been ported".
Yep, i understand its the same, and its reasson why i say that its to early to say like something already done :) By this words i understand that it in plans/plannig, but all of this are hi-priority for now.
Well, "being ported" to me means they are working on it.
Like if your grandma is in the kitchen and the end result of her being there is a cake. So your can sum this up with "granny is baking" (and in a slightly more advanced phase, "the cake is being baked"). (of course you could misinterpret this as grandma having being put in the oven and rather unhappily becoming a cake herself). usually you don't specify that grandma is taking out the butter, the sugar, the flour and call all this "she is in the plans of making a cake".
Besides that, I suppose H-J would have said "we are planning to.." or "we are evaluating a possible port.." if he meant to point out the undertaking to be more "vague".
MEsa 7.9 (AROS) and gallium (AROS) to AOS4 or OpenGL (???) and gallium (AROS) to AOS4.
Mesa, its free and opensource realisation of OpenGL stardard. Galiium its some kind of HW layers, which allow to developers write drivers in more easy way. Mesa repository already include gallium support and that mean, that gallium+mesa port will done at the same time.
When you write "mesa (aros)" and "opengl(???)", that make no sense because mesa its opengl itself. Mesa its just a name for that opensource realisation of opengl. Like our MiniGL its just a name, for code which support some of opengl functions. Mesa have full opengl support (not like minigl), shaders support and so on.
Quote:
After the port to AROS, AOS4 will use all of them ??
No. AROS version for aos4 only give proof of concept, and show that its all possible to do with aos-like OS. Its of course a bit motivate developers. But AOS4 version will be of course different, because:
-- aros version of gallium for now, are only for x86 cpu (little endian), while aos4 its ppc (big endian). As i know someone already compile gallium for aros for ARM and PPC too (for aros), but that is not public, and just "compile", dunno how good or bad it works.
-- aros use opensource drivers for nvidia/geforces called Noveau, while aos4 version will use true native radeon drivers.
-- aros strucutre of drivers are different (drivers on aros are .hidd, while on aos4 its all p96 stuff and all those .resourses).
That mean that AOS4 can't use AROS port, but , for sure, aros port will help (or already help). And deadwood (who done all of this) already help as i know too for os4 developers.
EDIT: Should to add, that also even with Mesa, AROS code can help, just because latest versions of mesa (7.8 for sure, and 7.9 should too), works on PPC aroses (efika/sam/hosted).
DAX wrote: @kas1e Hans mentioned he was looking at it months ago, if you combine his expertise on graphic drivers with the work already done on Aros (which he can look at and learn from) you get only one thing: advanced 3D coming to AmigaOS soon
Hans is part of the Gallium porting team.
Seriously, if you do want to contact me write me a mail. You're more likely to get a reply then.
-- aros use opensource drivers for nvidia/geforces called Noveau, while aos4 version will use true native radeon drivers.
Not quite sure what you mean. Noveau is the name of the nVidia drivers, while the Radeon drivers are called Radeon, r300 or r600. Using Nuveau on AROS is as native as it will get, and that is not going to be different with AmigaOS 4.x either.
Seriously, if you do want to contact me write me a mail. You're more likely to get a reply then.
DAX wrote: @kas1e Hans mentioned he was looking at it months ago, if you combine his expertise on graphic drivers with the work already done on Aros (which he can look at and learn from) you get only one thing: advanced 3D coming to AmigaOS soon
Hans is part of the Gallium porting team.
IIRC the gallium r300 driver has a few "quirks", and the r600 has more (as its newer), so i assume its not a simple job to port mesa, but to make it work corectly too.
I hope people dont misunderstand the scale of this task and start complaining when it doesnt reach their expectations.
Not quite sure what you mean. Noveau is the name of the nVidia drivers, while the Radeon drivers are called Radeon, r300 or r600. Using Nuveau on AROS is as native as it will get, and that is not going to be different with AmigaOS 4.x either.
I mean that Galium on aos4, will use Radeons drivers (which done special for aos4), while AROS version of Galium use noveau/nvidia open-source drivers, what mean that "plain re-port from aros to aos4" will make no sense. I also think, that aos4 version of galium should be even better, just because we have aos4-native drivers for radeons, while aros use that 3d party drivers ported to aros (noveau).
@derfs
Quote:
IIRC the gallium r300 driver has a few "quirks", and the r600 has more (as its newer), so i assume its not a simple job to port mesa, but to make it work corectly too.
I hope people dont misunderstand the scale of this task and start complaining when it doesnt reach their expectations.
And still, as i can see from linux sites/forums/talks about galium/not-galium - galium radeon drivers works pretty fine and give linux-users ability to run all the modern games over it. That is more than enough for begining (with all that shaders and such).
All in all we also have "quirks" with minigl already, like for example: not checking on active/non-active context, and because of which, many games/apps crashes.
Of course it will be not easy job, to make everything perfect, but all of this are right steps for sure.
I think you are confusing 2D drivers with 3D drivers.
Gallium is the library for 3D drivers, and is now part of Mesa since last year.
Gallium supports a few makes of graphice cards already including Nvidia (nouveau drivers) and AMD/ATI (r300 and r600 drivers)
2D drivers are what Hans has worked at for the past few years now. I think this is what you were talking about when you said "OS4 native"
For 3D the r300 and r600 drivers will be as "OS4 native" as nouveau is "AROS native".
Just for clarification for everyone, r300 drivers cover R300 to R500 chipsets, and the r600 covers R600 to Evergreen chipsets. When this means 3D for cards from Radeon 9500 to the 5000 series that is quite a step!
*edit*
although with the r300 drivers i only think support for R5xx chipsets would be completed, as there are no 2D drivers for the others.
Btw, found interesting benchmark-article (june 07 2010),which benchmark latest mesa/latest galium (on 07/2010 times) on linux / Radeon X1950PRO (RV570). Benchmarks done on modern PC, so the matter of benchmark for us is comparing beetwen, not exact FPS.
Game Warsov 0.5:
OpenArena:
And they final resulting phrase:
Quote:
The ATI R300g driver is not yet perfect, but it is shaping up rather well and is receiving much of the open-source developer's attention when it comes to 3D work rather than their classic DRI driver. We may see the R300g driver become the default driver for the older ATI Radeon hardware with the Mesa 7.9 driver, which would certainly be nice even with the recent regressions and surely will get resolved especially once there is wider usage and testing of this Gallium3D driver.
Edit: After that found one more benchmark article, done few days ago (october 28, 2010), and comparing the classic Mesa and Gallium3D driver performance for R300 using the very latest kernel and Mesa code:
And final words:
Quote:
Regardless, the R300 Gallium3D driver continues to make progress and we are ecstatic to finally see this driver being enabled by more Linux distribution vendors for their out-of-the-box driver stack. In 2011 this driver will hopefully shine. Next up is our look at the R600 Gallium3D driver.
Edited by kas1e on 2010/11/1 22:27:08 Edited by kas1e on 2010/11/1 22:27:40
2D drivers are what Hans has worked at for the past few years now. I think this is what you were talking about when you said "OS4 native"
For 3D the r300 and r600 drivers will be as "OS4 native" as nouveau is "AROS native".
Yep you are right. A bit messed all. I just trying to point, that new 2d drivers from Hans was in developing in having in mind all that galium/mesa stuff, what mean that integration should be good enough. As i know, noveau - its opensource 2d (not 3d) drivers. And when i say about native/non-native, i mean that in end, anyway 2d drivers do blitting/etc stuff, what mean, that better have native done drivers, in compare with noveau.
Quote:
although with the r300 drivers i only think support for R5xx chipsets would be completed, as there are no 2D drivers for the others.
Stop me if I'm wrong but you are explaining (or trying to) to Rogue what MESA and Gallium are ?
When Rogue said : "One word - Eh ?" Translate it to : "Un mot : hein ?". It simply means he did not understand what you were trying to say (and I don't think your last sentence will help him any further ).
Are the benchmarks valid? Because, if so, I thought that Gallium was somewhat.. better, performance wise. I haven't any Linux box to check it out but some games at 1280x1024 (the standard nowadays, if not 1680x1050 and up) look just .. playable. And we are not talking for CoD BlackOps or something remotely equal to it. OA and Smoking Guns are free, kinda of primitive, fps genre games. I had nearly the same fps rate in my old PC, ten years ago. OTOH, I suppose, it should enable us at least to play some good games that right now, are not even playable (super tuxkart). And having something, is better than having none.
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