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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@MartinW

ok you use MAC I didn't read correctly

x64 user wanted

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
Not too shy to talk
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I don’t think there’s any secret to this. No magic combination that’s going to improve your performance 10 fold. Specify ppc, build it and if you didn’t get a feature that you expected or needed (like slirp) look through the configure output to find what enablements are supported for your platform and enable what you need. At that point configure may fail and tell you it needs a dependency you don’t have. Install that, rinse and repeat until you got everything you need.

There will be a few optimisations that can be set based on release vs debug. You could do with knowing them.

Sorry for lack of formatting, on my phone right now.

PS: I did build quite happily for Linux so this is based on experience but that machine is in pieces now so I can’t refer back to it.


Amiga x5040 ı 16GB ı RX580
GB-A1000 060@100,
A1200 PiStorm32-Lite CM4
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@whiteQuote:
white wrote:I can only agree with @LiveForIt question


here is a short example in 2048x1152 at 16Bit
with E-UAE (CoffinOS) at work:

qemu-system-ppc -M pegasos2 -cpu 750cxe -accel tcg -kernel /home/white/Scaricati/bboot-0.4/bboot -initrd /home/white/Scaricati/Kickstart.zip -m 2048 -serial stdio -device sm501 -drive if=none,id=hd,file=/home/white/Scaricati/32gb.raw,format=raw -device ide-hd,drive=hd,bus=ide.1 -device rtl8139,netdev=mynet0 -netdev user,id=mynet0 -vga none -drive if=none,id=hd1,file=/home/white/Scaricati/coffin.raw,format=raw -device ide-hd,drive=hd1,bus=ide.1

-cpu 750cxe for (SDL compatibility for E-UAE)


This is very impressive, thanks for the video. I would also like to use it under AmigaOs4.1 with E-UAE.

Is there a simple installation guide for CoffinOS under AmigaOs4.1 E-UAE?

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu//Pegasos2 AmigaOs4.1 FE
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@Maijestro

also supports more than one E-UAE session
at the same time, even if it obviously doesn't make much sense.
I managed to use 3 E-UAE all together at the same time.

you just need the configuration file pointing to E-UAE

if it weren't for the audio conflicting
(it would be nice to use 2 sound cards at the same time)
because this slows down E-UAEs used together.

The 3.9 also works which is lighter, however the 3.1 "flies" with whdload
I don't like Amiga 3.2 even though it works anyway.

anyway,
you have always been kind to me.

It costs me nothing to provide you with the entire CoffinOS partition
since it is freely downloadable.
with the attached configuration file.
Just add it as a virtual hd to qemu.

You won't need to create a virtual HD, just mount it as you do with your current disks that you use.
In practice it is already ready you just need to add it for example:

-drive if=none,id=hd1,file=/home/white/Scaricati/coffin.raw,format=raw -device ide-hd,drive=hd1,bus=ide.1

it is already converted to SFS filesystem

Just give me a few days and I'll give you the link.

it's 32gb, compressed I'll have to see
just done when compressed it is 18gb

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@whiteQuote:
white wrote:@Maijestro
It costs me nothing to provide you with the entire CoffinOS partition
since it is freely downloadable.
with the attached configuration file.
Just add it as a virtual hd to qemu.

You won't need to create a virtual HD, just mount it as you do with your current disks that you use.
In practice it is already ready you just need to add it for example:

-drive if=none,id=hd1,file=/home/white/Scaricati/coffin.raw,format=raw -device ide-hd,drive=hd1,bus=ide.1

it is already converted to SFS filesystem

Just give me a few days and I'll give you the link.

it's 32gb, compressed I'll have to see
just done when compressed it is 18gb


Wouldn't it be simpler to use the iso of
https://getcoffin.net/ under Qemu, but I don't know if E-Uae can also boot from isos.

E-Uae is like Qemu you have to do a lot and the configuration without GUI makes it even more complicated. But I am impressed by your Video and that it works so well under AmigaOs4.1.

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu//Pegasos2 AmigaOs4.1 FE
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@Maijestro

If you edit the Pegasos2 iso and add Professional Fast Filesystem
then 4.1 with qemu will also recognize this filesystem otherwise it won't be able to recognize it, you can try if you want.

then I'll give you the E-UAE configuration file
as you prefer let me know.

The problem you may encounter is that it will try to boot from the ISO and skip the 4.1 one.

Let me know.

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@Maijestro

We can move on.
And just passion for this system.
I think the topic can be closed here

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@Maijestro

I had done this 3 months with the older version of qemu
clearly you can make it much faster this is just the basis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziSVvhICv00

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@white

Thanks my friend, I don't want to have to modify more original installation media, I don't feel comfortable with it and I'm glad that with BBoot an easy way was found to be able to install AmigaOs4.1 with Qemu.

There are already many people using this emulation as it is probably the cheapest way to use AmigaOs4.1 with little cost. Apart from an AmigaOs4.1 license you don't need much, because Qemu is OpenSource and is under constant development.

Of course I always find it exciting to see how things work for other people and so I was able to improve my AmigaOs4.1 system again and again.

I also recorded a short video about the usability of AmigaOs4.1/Bboot under Qemu Pegasos 2. It shows only a small part of the things that already work very well.




MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu//Pegasos2 AmigaOs4.1 FE
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@Maijestro

Yes the emulation is very good.
you can do many retro-gaming things
and demo scenes.
Basilisk works well
DosBox and many other things but I no longer want to make videos.

I've done a lot of these in the past.

If you work on it you get an excellent emulation.

It's just a shame that the system isn't up to date
Unfortunately, the AmigaOS era ended years ago.

if someone spends 2,000 euros you have to give me at least Fortnite and GTA 5
to keep up with the times.
With hardware that supports it
Think I sold the PS5 to make you understand why there is nothing.
And I got the PS4 again
And this alone requires an OS that is at least a little more advanced.

But there is nothing behind it, only the sale of hardware with software is zero.
I speak as a system enthusiast.
Sin.
But I understand the market trade is done this way.

For me Windows is old too.
We've had XP modernized for more than 20 years now.

I would like a system that has the features of "STADIA for games even if that too failed as a project.

But dedicated to an operating system.

We need a more modern OS to keep up with the times, even Windows is old now.

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@LiveForItQuote:
LiveForIt wrote:@white

I have a Apple M2, this way I ask.


If you need help I am happy to help you. It is also no problem to link to a Mac M1 build that you can use.

Qemu Pegasos 2 (AmigaOs4.1) is extensively tested by me (1 year) and there were also many problems in the beginning that I had to solve myself under MacOs.

What I can do is share my knowledge with you if you want and allow it. Otherwise there was some information about the dependencies that must be met from @smarkusg.

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu//Pegasos2 AmigaOs4.1 FE
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@Maijestro
send PM

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@white

It took some time to understand how to properly configure Coffin Os to work with E-Uae. It's also a bit crazy to have an emulation in the emulation

Again I am impressed by the speed under E-Uae, the SDL version 1.0.0 with uaegfx support seems to have been well solved.

It's a shame that no one is working on E-Uae for AmigaOs4.1 anymore, it's a really great emulation and so you stay somewhat downward compatible to 68k under AmigaOs4.1 and can use things that are not intended for this hardware (ppc).

I'm not sure how the E-Uae runs on real hardware, but what I tried ran quite well.

AmigaOs4.1 E-UAE CoffinOs:





My current .uae configuration looks like this :

# UAE config for RunInUAE, which is designed to modify an existing working UAE config

# Use 3.1 Kickstart for Workbench, but allow ADF-booted games to still use an older Kickstart
kickstart_rom_file=kick3.1.rom

# Emulate an A1200, but still allow A500 emulation for ADF-booted games
#uae_debugger=no
ppc.use_tbc=false

cpu_type
=68040
cpu_speed
=max
cpu_compatible
=false
cpu_cycle_exact
=false
chipmem_size
=16
z3mem_size
=512
fastmem_size
=0
show_leds
=false

#gfx=vsync=true
#amiga.use_dither=false

gfx_width=640
gfx_height
=480
gfx_width_windowed
=640
gfx_height_windowed
=480
gfx_lores
=false
gfx_correct_aspect
=yes
gfx_linemode
=double
gfx_center_horizontal
=smart
gfx_center_vertical
=smart
gfx_fullscreen_amiga
=false
gfx_fullscreen_picasso
=yes
gfxcard_size
=32

joyport0
=mouse






chipset
=aga
immediate_blits
=yes
collision_level
=full

# Emulate an expanded A1200 with 8MB of Fast Ram!





# Set frame skipping (1=show all frames, 2=show every 2nd frame, 3=show every 3rd frame, etc)
gfx_framerate=1

# Add floppy disk which can be used for saving games
#floppy0=PROGDIR:SaveGames.adf

# Filesystem settings for virtual devices



sound_output=exact
#sound_channels=mixed
sound_channels=stereo
sound_frequency
=44100
sound_latency
=240
sound_max_buff
=8192




use_debugger
=no
cachesize
=8192
cpu_compatible
=false
cpu_cycle_exact
=false
blitter_cycle_exact
=false
comp_constjump
=yes
comp_trustbyte
=indirect
comp_trustword
=indirect
comp_trustlong
=indirect
comp_optimize
=true

filesystem2
=rw,DH0:System:Coffin:System,1
filesystem2
=rw,DH1:Programs:Coffin:Programs,-1
filesystem2
=rw,DH2:MyFiles:Coffin:MyFiles,-1
#scsi=true
#scsi_device=true


I'm not sure but maybe there are a few things I could change in the configuration to get some more speed. ?

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu//Pegasos2 AmigaOs4.1 FE
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@Maijestro

I used to test something with e-uae....
so it works nicely on Qemu. You could use a better graphics card with acceleration ..not a 2D industrial graphics card.

https://streamable.com/qd1ks6

*film is without sound but runs normally

edit:
The story starts with uae (unix amiga emulator). Then there was e-uae, then winuae. The offshoot of e-uae was p-uae ... then fs-uae =winuae+p-uae. Of these projects, winuae and p-uae is still under development. The old author of p-uae made an interesting reference to winuae ... but you'll have to find it


Edited by smarkusg on 2023/9/15 23:29:58
Edited by smarkusg on 2023/9/15 23:31:40
Edited by smarkusg on 2023/9/15 23:51:01
Edited by smarkusg on 2023/9/15 23:51:17
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@Maijestro

It's not crazy at all
E-UAE is part of OS 4.1
And it is right to test its speed and integrate it into the emulated 4.1.

On the other hand, 4.1 itself stops making sense in all its possible emulations.

For example like Scumm Mame DosBox Basilisk Snes etc.

When all this is possible to have it on your main system "MAC"

And I have it on Linux-Windows

Without using qemu which in turn emulates 4.1.

So no it's not crazy at all

Indeed, as mentioned several times in recent years, I have found very few users who have seriously tried to emulate 4.1.


If you use "AGA" with E-UAE you don't need "E-UAE-SDL"

So you can do without using -cpu 750cxe

And you can use -Pegasos2 normally.

Then it becomes a matter of taste and what you want to have and use.

I'll leave you a video to help you understand what I mean and how to change what you intend to emulate with E-UAE "uaegfx" (SDL again)
Later I'll post a video that only uses "AGA"

You can make a system for E-UAE you can use WinUAE and create an OS as you prefer.
Then change the extension from .hdf to .raw


I also leave a note on the speed of the CPUs used for this emulation

this is my Ryzen 5800x with GeekBench without overclocking if I use the overclock it reaches 5ghz without effort but for 200mhz more I don't care.

https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/2622796

if you want download the program from here MAC version is free:

https://www.geekbench.com/download/

Please post your result if you can, I'm curious to see the differences, thanks.

I'm not interested in having a speed race
how much is your L2 and L3 cache on your real MAC how much is it?

later I will post a video based only on "AGA" Workbench 3.1

here AmigaOS 3.9 "uaegfx" SDL

https://youtu.be/VkkmLLIqopk

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@whiteQuote:
white wrote:@Maijestro
I also leave a note on the speed of the CPUs used for this emulation

this is my Ryzen 5800x with GeekBench without overclocking if I use the overclock it reaches 5ghz without effort but for 200mhz more I don't care.

https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/2622796

if you want download the program from here MAC version is free:

https://www.geekbench.com/download/

Please post your result if you can, I'm curious to see the differences, thanks.

I'm not interested in having a speed race
how much is your L2 and L3 cache on your real MAC how much is it?


Don't blame me if they will be disappointed with their hardware

The MacStudio M1 is superior in all areas of their CPU, especially in the multicore benchmark this becomes very clear and that despite a lower clock speed.

https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/2626245

Thanks for the video

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu//Pegasos2 AmigaOs4.1 FE
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@Maijestro

Quote:
Don't blame me if they will be disappointed with their hardware


It clear make no sense play around with slower embedded PowerPC chips, most definitely need to look at something faster, it continue to make sense to make new hardware, then we need look at Power6/7/8 maybe (previous generation). Power9 is probably too expensive.

Yeh, we should not blame you for anything, Trever was warned about putting the PowerPC chip he did on A1222 so, that only his fault if any.

I have thought about what puting ARM chip on AmigaONE-SE/XE cpu module, can be pretty good upgrade, you also bypass the slow onboard memory, you can do it with a faster PowerPC chip as well, it does not make much sense economically, perhaps.

Anyhow until QEMU catches up on 3D and 32bit graphics, there is a argument for real hardware.

Even if ARM/QEMU becomes faster, I don’t think it should stop the pressure of Multicore support on PowerPC. It’s better to get that done, and tested, then after that porting to ARM should be done.
Stopping development of SMP, just to port to ARM, will slowdown development.

For AmigaOS5 the plan was to visualize everything, I guess its all happening just not in the way we expected, only the digital platforms are Apple, Microsoft; Linux and Android. not Amiga.


Edited by LiveForIt on 2023/9/16 12:51:27
Edited by LiveForIt on 2023/9/16 12:56:13
Edited by LiveForIt on 2023/9/16 13:05:16
(NutsAboutAmiga)

Basilisk II for AmigaOS4
AmigaInputAnywhere
Excalibur
and other tools and apps.
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@LiveForIt
Quote:
For AmigaOS5 the plan was to visualize everything, I guess its all happening just not in the way we expected,
AmigaOS 5 or DE was just Elate RTOS with some Amiga like parts (DOS, GUI, etc.) to be added on top of it, Java based, no compatibility whatsoever to AmigaOS. Except that there was an UAE port for it, but only for running some old Amiga games to be included in the release.
The goal was to create something similar to a 2 or 3 years later implemented system: Android. Amiga Inc. even offered it to Google but failed and Google bought Android instead.
Amiga Inc. though if they just label something "AmigaOS", even if it's not related to AmigaOS in any way, they would get most AmigaOS developers supporting it, but of course next to nobody did

Much earlier (maybe still at ESCOM times?) the plan for the next AmigaOS version was to use the QNX RTOS as base.

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@Maijestro

Excellent result

I was curious to see the result not so much to make the differences between the processors.

Just search Apple M1 Max on geekbench and you will get various benchmarks for the various CPUs.
Same as Ryzen models

But for qemu emulation in this case single-thread

our benchmarks:

Ryzen 5800x 2227 multi 10080 not overclocked
Mac Studio 2449 multi 12889

here you can see a slight overclock to 4.9 ghz (Ryzen 5800x)

https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/2622731

( it's not mine )
2339
12020

the difference is not much and in my opinion this is certainly not what makes the difference between the two processors in question.

In the motherboard bios I have the entry that automatically increases the Ryzen by 200mhz
how to safely overclock.

But I don't use it.

And I also understand that I've been stuck with AmiCygnix for a long time and in some ways this has made some of my reports ineffective.
And maybe even a little unpleasant, which I'm not at all.
Maybe from the rest of the possible corrections that could be made.

Since the first versions of qemu with Linux X64 (Pegasos2)
A strange thing happens graphically, I first have to do "fit to window" and then subsequently select "full screen".

Regardless of GTK or SDL

I noticed that on MAC you directly do "full screen" without selecting "fit to window"

Now this doesn't seem important but if I don't do these 2 steps all applications like Emotion-Player and even E-UAE itself open in 4:3 format and not 16:9.

Also tried on other Linux X64 distributions the same thing happens.

I'm not a developer but I'm convinced that somehow this has an impact
on graphics performance.

(It is no coincidence that the mouse is not 100% fluid when I move it compared to the rest of the window movement. ).

(while in the qemu version of Windows 10 the mouse is 100% fluid

But I can't add anything else, it's not my job.


@Maijestro
add this to your .uaerc configuration file
under the heading:

joyport0=mouse

joyport1=kbd2

this will enable keyboard commands
ALT key, cursors, keyboard etc.


@Maijestro
Later I will post the video of an old OS 3.1 with the Demo-Scenes of "ELUDE" games etc. without "uaegfx" SDL

Also try launching the demo-scenes from the "ELUDE" folder
They shouldn't start or they take a very long time to start.

I would like to know if this happens to you too.

Thank you.

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@white
Besides raw CPU performance there is another important difference:
AMD64 only has 16 GPR registers, ARM has 31. PowerPC CPUs have 32.
For best performance emulating another CPU the host CPU should have more registers than the guest CPU. That's neither the case for AMD64 nor ARM, but ARM is much closer.

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