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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Not too shy to talk
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@Outcast

LOL! You are an asset to this site, because nobody manages better to lighten up the mood and make people laugh when there is tension in the air!

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
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It's interesting enough, to be sure.
I wish it didn't have to happen, but finding SOME resolution is better than spending eternity in limbo.

While my own contribution to OS4 is very minor, this entire drama has just made me very happy that I gave it freely, without any hope of getting paid.

I'll just hope that solving these legal issues leads us to a better future.

Hey, I can hope, can't I??

LyleHaze

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
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@ssolie

Hmm, it seems that Hyperion have decided to play rough. Somebody mentioned (asked) if the 2 lawsuits would be combined. My understanding is that is what usually happens, but I don't think it has to necessarily be the case. I think it requires the consent of both parties. In this instance, it may be to Hyperion's advantage to have separate trials; Amiga Inc has requested a jury trial, and their lawyers seemed to emphasize emotional arguments, but without a great deal of actual substance. Hyperion's lawyer stressed the actual legalities (non-emotionally), and that was correct in front of a judge. I think they have a better opportunity if they have individual trials, with their lawsuit being heard only by a judge.

Like several others, I am just so sorry it has come to this. I also think both AI and Hyperion started out with the best intentions, but it started to go wrong right off. I'm not personally into the games bit, but can understand that AI believed there wasn't really a substantial business in the desktop, and the AmigaDE games seemed a good choice. I give them credit for having (allowing) Hyperion to proceed on the desktop end. But why did they then seem to screw them at every opportunity. I just don't understand.

Emotionally, I hope Hyperion win and get the "whole thing". Not because of anything they (the company) have necessarily done well, but because we have this great AOS4 -- thanks to the developers.

Hyperion becoming the owner of Amiga trademarks, etc. also worries me. I'm having a real problem imagining them as a "real" business. They appear to have a real problem communicating, especially with partners -- of course, it does require 2 parties to communicate. If they ever had a real business plan, one that was reviewed and updated on a regular schedule, I fail to discern it. They should have insisted on contract changes when circumstances changed. If Hyperion gets all of the Amiga rights, what will they do with it? I have this terrible fear that in a few years we will be once again having this discussion -- but then with Hyperion being the bad character. I just don't think Hyperion is prepared to deal with this.

If the Amiga computer is to continue, it is going to require a company with some money and some business sense. Money for making deals and advertising and paying developers (and office staff). Business sense because they have to plan things and schedule things. And they have to review and change the plan. They have to look beyond the desktop -- the desktop ALONE isn't a viable market. They will have to partner with other companies, and communicate with those partners. They will have to find buyers, and communicate with them. They will have to keep developers on-board, pay them and communicate with them. I think Hyperion is a small mom-and-pop type of company, and find it hard to imagine them functioning as a big company.

Incidentally, I feel the same is true of Amiga Inc. If the Amiga is to continue, it needs a real company that knows exactly what needs to be done in a business sense.

It is so sad to it come to this, with no real solution in sight.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Quite a regular
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@DonF

did you join 3cag recently ?

If so then I'm sorry but I suspect we deleted your account.

The reason is as follows..

We are being hammered by spammers and if a new account is created that doesn't have too much info on it... And that person is not in UK... We suspect its a spam account.
So apologies if thats what has occurred to your account.


It's Just that your name rang a bell... I/we dont just delete willy nilly.

Are we nearly there yet ?
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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
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@DonF

I don't know if it will help, but you might want to research Pentti Kouri.

For those who are brave enough to want to know me better, visit
my Home Page, my Storefront, and blogsey
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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
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@DonF

Quote:

DonF wrote:
@ssolie

Hmm, it seems that Hyperion have decided to play rough. Somebody mentioned (asked) if the 2 lawsuits would be combined. My understanding is that is what usually happens, but I don't think it has to necessarily be the case. I think it requires the consent of both parties. In this instance, it may be to Hyperion's advantage to have separate trials; Amiga Inc has requested a jury trial, and their lawyers seemed to emphasize emotional arguments, but without a great deal of actual substance. Hyperion's lawyer stressed the actual legalities (non-emotionally), and that was correct in front of a judge. I think they have a better opportunity if they have individual trials, with their lawsuit being heard only by a judge.

.....
It is so sad to it come to this, with no real solution in sight.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge


I have to admit I'm a bit surprised by the extent of Hyperion's counter suit. It should never have gotten to this point -- this lawsuit should have happened years ago, but both companies let things slide for whatever reason. AInc was happy to let Hyperion continue developing the OS far past original specs (at Hyperion's expense), thinking they would get all the source code without a quibble (which they should have if payments had been documented properly on both sides). And Hyperion was happy to go along with all the asset transfers and company changes, thinking they would end up with full OS ownership because of those possibly illegal transfers. Both companies have screwed up royally in letting this go on because no outcome is really certain.

Now it will be very interesting to see what AInc comes up with as a reply to the counter suit. All the transfer documents for a start. I do hope for a settlement.

Kind Regards,
Kay

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
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@Outcast

>did you join 3cag recently ?

Nope, it wasn't me. But thanks for asking.

Don Feldbruegge

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
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@Billsey

>I don't know if it will help, but you might want to research Pentti Kouri.

Hi,

Well, I don't know much about Pentti, but have heard of him, due to the ownership of Amiga. It seems he is basically the owner of Amiga Inc, and is the chairman of the board. I believe he has owned it for a number of years now, inasmuch as he signed the documents for Itec, KMOS and Amiga.

My (vague) understanding is that he buys distressed companies, fixes them up and sells them in entirety of in pieces. Am I correct? Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm assuming your comment is directed at my apprehension that whoever finally gets the Amiga rights will not be a "business person", i.e. unable to come up with a decent business plan (and review/change it frequently if needed), and be lousy at communication.

As regards Mr. Kouri, I really don't know how succesful he has been with other businesses. About all I can judge him on is his long-time ownership of Amiga Inc. Business skills on the Amiga = I really can't say, as he may very well have a good plan. Communication = a failing grade. Unable to communicate with partners (EyeTech and Hyperion). Unable to communicate with potential customers -- I mean, that website is pretty sad, isn't it, especially as regards the desktop. I know you might argue that there was no product -- but who wasn't giving out licenses, so there would be a product.

Overall, I'm really not much comfortable with Mr. Kouri being the next owner of the Amiga desktop. He probably has a little more business knowledge than some alternatives, but I worry a lot about his tendancy to sell companies as soon as they are functional. And I sure don't think much of his communication.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
Not too shy to talk
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@DonF

All I know about him is what wikipedia says. I just figured that his name might be a place to start in searching out some answers to your concerns. The reason I looked him up on wiki was the revelation that he has been connected with George Soros (sp?), who I sure wouldn't be comfortable with owning Amiga.

For those who are brave enough to want to know me better, visit
my Home Page, my Storefront, and blogsey
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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
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@DonF

>Overall, I'm really not much comfortable with Mr. Kouri being the next owner of the Amiga desktop. He probably has a little more business knowledge than some alternatives, but I worry a lot about his tendancy to sell companies as soon as they are functional. And I sure don't think much of his communication.

Boy, do I ever feel foolish answering myself.

However, I just wanted to comment that I'm not really disapproving of the business Kouri is in. I think rescuing distressed companies can be a worthwhile business. It is just the fact that they ordinarily expect things to turn around fast and sell for big money doesn't fit my idea of what is needed for the Amiga.

I just wish somebody could buy AI and Hyperion right now. Somebody with business sense, good communication, some money, and a lot of patience.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
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@DonF

I just had a look through the same material (wiki).

At a guess "Invisible Hand" would be the capitalising company. The Nokia connection is very interesting.

And http://www.espial.com/ also fits the mix, another company he is also on the board.

While Askar Capital which he advises, invests in real estate and may be the simplest explanation for the Kent stadium investments.

Unfortunately none of these seem connected to the new owners of Tao technologies.

Of the companies listed the most important fact seems that only on Amiga Inc is he the chairman, (although "espial" and "invisible hand" do not list him explicitly).

How active Pentti Kouri is in Amiga is a question. Hyperion may have found a fight out of the league, in which case I would be putting to Mr. Kouri that there is room to be flexible and the critical role of the developers, whatever is thought of Hyperion as a company.

A little compromise at this point might go a long way.

I have swung around, on finding this, to the idea that Aimga Inc's lawyers may be much better than they appeared in the Preliminary Injunction hearing. And that tactically they may have already have forced Hyperion into the position of revealing their intent by the counter suing, and thus gone some way in preparing their own case.

The argument that Hyperion seems to be putting, that they have a legal right to the IP, unfortunately also means that their position has been one intended to deny this right to Amiga Inc.

All Amiga Inc has to do is demonstrate that the IP rights never reached a point of being allocated to Hyperion.

If the next round of documentation has all the "i"s dotted and the "t"s crossed, Hyperion is in a bad position. If Hyperion's assumption has been that such documentation does not exist, which seems to be the case, they will either be mistaken and thus legally crumble, or still (if the documentation is as shoddy as what has appeared), have a major case to argue.

Again I would be saying to Amiga Inc and its chair, rather than take this to the line, (that is if their evidence is as strong, yet not yet revealed), at that point, seek a compromise. ACUBE's SAM is an asset, its distribution of OS4, a potential asset, Hyperion's royalties for overseeing development, is not a bad arrangement if:

If OS4 is defined as a desktop PPC OS and Amiga Incs plans for something very different that could run ontop OS4 desktop.

Instead of OS4 and OS5, how about OS4 PPC Desktop and OS4 Anywhere?

Allowing two very different developments to share the same code base, while doing very different things?

I suggest this for a couple of reasons. The Amiga community, which is a mess now, could consolidate around OS4 Desktop (along with the PS3 converts), demanding functionality development over time which could feed into both projects.

Instead of a single determining mindset, room is made for development along diverse lines, catering to different needs. OS4 Anywhere hosted on OS4 Desktop would at first appear very foreign to the Amiga community, if this is a new sort of application environment, people will progressively make use of it within the community, especially its power to harness other devices in a consistent way.

There would be incompatibilities and duplication, but this is not a bad thing, so long as developer to developer communications is made a priority (partially by-passing company to company communications - which evidence shows has not been very good at all).

Developers are the key, as far as I am concerned Hyperion is simply coordinating development in one area, so leave them to it, because despite the problems, the developers it has used have done a magnificent job.

Amiga Inc's development cycle has too long been a closed shop, understandably, but when it has product ready this can be largely dispensed with.

My view based solely on the wiki on Pentti Kouri is that he wants a real win at aged 58, not just wealth, I suspect (there are faster ways of making money than Amiga Inc, and a handful of small technology companies), rather it may be he wants to establish something that makes a difference (I hope so).

PS for those who might be reading this from positions of influence, REBOL is a technology well worth considering, with or without Tao's.

Interesting times, I just wish they would settle into workable solutions that I can get my hands on ASAP.

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
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@GregS

Could it be possible that Hyperion's lawyer is playing a masterful game of checkers, when the real game is actually chess, or has he taken it a level deeper that AI's lawyers do not yet contemplate?

For those who think this a tempest in a teapot, allow me an allusion to The Lord of the Rings: While all the powers that be were facing off against each other with all their armies of millions, who was it that destroyed the One Ring? Take care in your answer, and think. If you haven't read the book, get it and read it?carefully.

Why would the rich and powerful be so concerned if there was nothing to be concerned about? What is it that we are not seeing?

One of the things that Garry Hare said when he was running the ship was that Amiga was an essential piece in a puzzle that he was not permitted to tell us about.

There is MUCH MORE involved here than merely Amiga and Hyperion. I only wish I knew what it was.

For those who are brave enough to want to know me better, visit
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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
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@Billsey

There is the mystery all right.

In a sense Hyperion only has one through of the dice - only one real argument and this must of been fairly obvious to any good lawyer. Having counter-sued the basis for this is now out in the open, though there are bound to be a few things hidden away.

There is something bigger afoot. However, the developers, are not an asset to be thrown away, they are at least 50% of the source codes worth - what they have in their minds, is important, far more important than comments in their source code.

To lose that vision, wealth of ideas and future possibilities which also gave shape to the code but rarely is documented at all - that would be cutting off the nose to spite the face.

If there is this bigger picture, which I hope there is, then compromise to workable solutions has to be in the mix. To win the source code and lose the developers themselves is no real win for Amiga Inc, it is throwing assets out the window.

If the price to keep the developers is having Hyperion continue as part of picture, even if the worst view of Hyperion is accepted, is a small price for retaining the developers of OS4 whatever the other plans.

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
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@GregS

About Nokia&Kouri

He was at Nokia around mid eighties. Before Nokia start to grow up, as we know it today. These days it was really much smaller.

It started to grow and convert to international cell-phone and network company with next CEO and after Kouri. At that time they made rubber boots, passenger car tyres, electronics and first "cell"phones.

Nokia tyres is alive and well even today, alltough separate company. other parts I really don't know.

BTW Kouri was shareholder and tried put Nokia to pieces and sell it.

At least "Nokia connection" is different, what we see today as Nokia.

No human readable links avail, only finnish language ones.

If one want to start study finnish, here you are : Nokia Oyj:n historia, ISBN 951-37-34676. (history of nokia, 975 pages, from 1916 to 2001) . Partially joke, I don't know, if it is translated to english or not. Anyway it is said to be honest book about Nokia, with all smoke and mirror games and deep crisis, where company was at eighties.

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
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@Mlehto

So it seems there isn't much connection between Kouri and the new Nokia company (mobile phones).
In any case I don't think that Kouri is interested in AmigaOS or Amiga as we remember it.
I only care about AmigaOS as an operating system for desktop computers. Am I being old-fashioned? For years, some peoples have proclaimed the death of the desktop computers and that everything will get integrated in wireless media terminals and smartphones.
What I don't understand is why those things can't coexist. Why does the introduction of a new technology concept always mean that a classical concept like a desktop computer will become obsolete? I just don't want to have streaming media, internet on the television and all these things.
I use my computer in the office room and go to my living room to watch television and play a DVD on a very cheap DVD-player. I am happy without streaming HDTV content from a domestic server. I only have one requirement, I like my television in colour, not the old black and white ones.

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
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@Helge


Quote:

Helge wrote:
@Mlehto

So it seems there isn't much connection between Kouri and the new Nokia company (mobile phones).



AFAIK no. Nokias last 15 years are been time without skeletons in carpet. And company is not in stage, where buy-split parts-sell-philosophy works.

And don't know, if he fits very well to company profile today.

Kallasvuo (CEO of Nokia) forgot to pay customs, when he flight from mid- Europe to Finland. Sum was relativelly small, and still it was problem for Nokia, so they take care today pretty well...

Quote:

In any case I don't think that Kouri is interested in AmigaOS or Amiga as we remember it.


Neither I do.

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Re: Hyperion files counter claims
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@Mlehto

Quote:
without skeletons in carpet

I think you mean "closet" !

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