@Atheist

[Begin Quote]
Hi "Team Amiga"; (if I may use that term)

After reading post #5 by Rogue, how can ANYONE support (any of the!) Amiga Inc.(s)!?!

[End Quote]

First off, I'm afraid I don't deserve/wish to be thought of as "Team Amiga". I'm not very active on that mailing list; mostly just read and observe. They are more into politics than I am.

Second, I think I ought to clarify things. Although I did refer to both AI and Hyperion, it was mostly AI that I was concerned about. I thought this might be obvious from my opening paragraph, relating to the failure of AI to pay Dave Haynie, Skal Loret and Fred Wright.

I knew it could easily end up as a hot topic (which is why I started it in that forum), so I made an attempt to be equitable by also referring to Hyperion. My major concern, though, was AI as it is obvious they have a way of skipping out on their debts.

My only real concern was that the developers be treated correctly, no matter who was releasing AOS4. If they are happy, I am happy -- and I wish to purchase another hardware/AOS4 combination. I would not be able to live with myself, if I felt that AOS4 was being stolen.


To Tony: Well, I'm not privy to information regarding how each developer is compensated, or even if they are to be paid. Once again, if the developers consider everything acceptable, then I am happy.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

@Rogue

[Begin Quote]

I hope you don't get what I say now wrong, I am not trying to attack anybody. Note also (although it should be clear) that I do only speak for myself, NOT for Hyperion. This should normally go without saying, but usually it doesn't so I want to stress that point.

Quite plainly, though, I don't know how this all could be anybody's business but Hyperion's and the developers. In other words, it's none of yours, or anybody else. If either Hyperion or the developers want to complain about anything in their relationship, they could do so on forums or other means - there is enough possibility to make yourself heard these days.

For the record, I don't think ANY AmigaOS 4 developer has, so far, complained about any payment or other issues. I find it rather hilarious to demand proof of anything - to the best of my knowledge any country with a decent jurisdiction adheres to the principle of "innocent until proven guilty", so I don't see any reason for anybody to prove their innocence in this matter - if someone claims otherwise, the burden of proof is on him.

[End Quote]

My apologies. I meant no offence to you or anybody else, and am sorry if it offended you. I wanted only to be certain that the developers were being treated correctly. I think that my AOne/AOS4 is wonderful, and want to purchase another hardware/AOS4 when (if) it becomes available. However, I want to certain that the developers are being rewarded for all of their hard work. You mention that it would certainly be mentioned on the forums if this is the case, so I am now reassured.


[Begin Quote]

And even though it isn't anybody's business, I am being paid.

[End Quote]

I wasn't asking this, as I didn't consider it to be my business. However, I am truly delighted to read that you are being paid.

Once, again I apologize for any unintended offence. Thank you for the response.


Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

@pjs

>Wouldn't the fact that the developers continue working on
>OS4 and producing executables implicitly suggest that they
>support that code's inclusion and release in Hyperion's
>Amiga OS4?

I don't think that necessarily means Hyperion will treat them right. According to what I've read, they have contracts with Hyperion to work on AOS4.

They are currently fulfilling the terms of the contract, but that doesn't necessarliy mean that if Hyperion release AOS4 for some item of hardware (for example the Sam) that they will pay the developers or give them their percentage or whatever the contracts state

I'm not saying that Hyperion WILL treat them badly, or that Amiga Inc WILL treat them badly. I'm just saying that I want to know that the developers consider everything acceptable to them.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

Hi,

I don't post very often, so I'm not too sure if this is the right forum. I suspect it could become a "hot" subject, if the moderators disagree, please place it in the right forum.

This post came about in regards to the 20 questions by McElwen. Would you believe it, the 20 questions actually came up on the "Team Amiga Mailing List", a list that hardly ever discusses the Amiga anymore.

This has gotten me to doing a lot of thinking. 2 very active members of that List are Dave Haynie and Skal Loret (I'm sure all the old-timers remember them), and the list was hosted by Gery Peake for many years. I'm sure you all remember his death some months ago.

What many of you may not know is that Dave, Skal, and Gary (also Fred, but can't recall last name) all were owed a good deal of money by Amiga Inc (W). They, like Bolton Peck (and others) got nothing. They were left holding the empty bag, and in all instances it has been quite harmful to their futures. They have all expressed their unhappiness in no uncertain terms.

So what has this got to do with my subject, "Request to AOS4 Developers"? It has everything to do with it. As a result of these 20 questions/answers and the TAML discussion, I have decided that if either AI or Hyperion releases AOS4 plus hardware, I am going to ask (on this website) the AOS4 developers a simple question. I am going to ask them if this is the release that they are in favor of and that they will get paid for. I am really going to want a straightforward answer from all of you.

It is our developers who have done all the work to produce this great AOS4 that I am typing this on. It is they who should get paid for the work. The 2 businesses (AI and Hyperion) have done very little, other than sit back and watch the developers work.

As much as I would like to, I will "NOT" buy a hardware plus AOS4 that does not include the developers approval! I don't care who owns the IP. If the developers aren't satisfied that they are being treated fairly, this is an immoral and unethical release. I couldn't live with myself, if a release was made against the interests of the developers.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

@AmiKit

Hi,

Got my issue, here in Wisconsin, today. Now to sit down and read it.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

Edit: After reading part way through Amiga Future, I have to say that I'm really enjoying it. I wasn't too sure what to expect from a magazine translated from German. You did a great job. Thank you.

@keisangi

I'm not sure what you think is to be gained by talking in a rude manner. I don't think it will get the desired response.

As others have said, there are only a few individuals who are developing AOS4. They have done an incredible job, especially considering this work has been done during the hours after their regular employment -- in many instances. It has been almost a labor of love -- love for the Amiga -- your insults are a poor reward to them, IMHO. There is only so much that they can do in the time available.

ATPIT, the most important thing (again IMHO) is to have some hardware to run AOS4 on. Without that hardware, it hardly matters what is, or isn't missing from AOS4. Without that hardware, there will not be new applications developed for AOS4 -- and in that case, we will all (those of us who AOS4) have to continue using older 68K applications.

As to the length of time one can keep AOS4 running, I have no idea. When I'm done using it, I turn it off. I'm concerned about the electricity usage -- and I'm also trying to keep my AOne alive as long as possible, as there may be no replacements if/when it dies.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

@Valiant

> Scion still sort of works, though not as well as it did before.

Oh boy, that could be a problem. Genealogy, (Scion, FinalWriter and TurboPrint) accounts for 70-80% of what I do.

Don Feldbruegge

@acefnq

>Thanks Hyperion. Just found Finalwriter works again.


Wonderful news to hear that FinalWriter now works without that patch.

Has anyone tried TurboPrint to see if it works? Are there any genealogists here? Have you tried Scion?

Those 2 weren't usually too happy with the FinalWriter patch.

Thank you so much to Hyperion and the whole developer team.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

@Severin

[quote]
The problem is that the 'lite' version is really ImageFX 3.

To upgrade the lite version Computer City supplied the 4.1 to 4.5 upgrade package which is obviously no use at all.

[end quote]

Ouch, I think that is what happened to me -- and I never even realized it. Yes, I got it from Computer City. So that is why I have had problems with it.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

@tonyw

I downloaded the free ImageFX Lite from OS4Depot, when it came out. That was a long time ago. It installed okay, although I'd already read about the need to watch for changes to some of the classes, etc.

It worked fine and still does. I then decided to purchase the "ImageFX4.5 Studio Upgrade Version". I never could get it to work properly. It always gives me grim reapers.

I do have one strange (annoying) problem. When I start ImageFX I get a message "ANIM: Module requires newer version of ImageFX". I'm not interested in doing animations, so just click on the "OK" button, and everything is fine for ImageFX Lite. It is right after this that ImageFX4.5 gives me the grim reaper.

Anyone know what that message means or how to get rid of it?

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

@goody

>Thanks for that glimmer. With all the knee-jerk bashing going on it is nice to see a well thought out response to this mayhem.

>There are far to many surprises to this whole thing to realy know at this point what has happened.

>Beyond making money we certainly do not know what the motives are behind the prime movers - how they intend to make that money.

>I do not uderstand the hatred for Amiga, inc at this time. There are simply to many unanswered questions popping up to truly blame anyone for anything at this point. Both Amiga, inc and Hyperion are what is holding up Amiga OS. Lets hope they can reach an agreement without a full blown expensive trial.

A month ago this was my hope also. Now I think the situation has gone past that. It has escalated, step by step. It looks to me like the 2 parties are now engaging a form of MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction); if I go down, I'm taking you with me. It is like watching 2 boxers slugging it out unmercifully. They are now into bloodying each other.

At this rate they will be unwilling to sit down and talk. Much too late for that now, IMHO.

There will be no winners. The court case will drag on (6 months at least) until exhaustion (lack of resources/money) sets in. Whoever wins (whatever that is) will find it a hollow victory. Amiga wins = no source code (sure they can fight it through the European courts for years). Hyperion win = bankruptcy (oh sure they can sue for legal costs, good luck).

Whoever wins will find it is so far in the future there no longer is a market, and 1/2 of the present Amigans leave.

The big losers are the developers who have worked so hard to produce AOS4, and others who have written software for AOS4. Of course the users lose, but not like the developers who've worked so hard for years.

With the new vicious blows that are happening, I think AOS4 is now truly dead. Oh, those of us that already have it will continue to use and enjoy it, but eventually the hardware will die.

I'm sorry, but that is my opinion.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

@DonF

>Overall, I'm really not much comfortable with Mr. Kouri being the next owner of the Amiga desktop. He probably has a little more business knowledge than some alternatives, but I worry a lot about his tendancy to sell companies as soon as they are functional. And I sure don't think much of his communication.

Boy, do I ever feel foolish answering myself.

However, I just wanted to comment that I'm not really disapproving of the business Kouri is in. I think rescuing distressed companies can be a worthwhile business. It is just the fact that they ordinarily expect things to turn around fast and sell for big money doesn't fit my idea of what is needed for the Amiga.

I just wish somebody could buy AI and Hyperion right now. Somebody with business sense, good communication, some money, and a lot of patience.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

@Billsey

>I don't know if it will help, but you might want to research Pentti Kouri.

Hi,

Well, I don't know much about Pentti, but have heard of him, due to the ownership of Amiga. It seems he is basically the owner of Amiga Inc, and is the chairman of the board. I believe he has owned it for a number of years now, inasmuch as he signed the documents for Itec, KMOS and Amiga.

My (vague) understanding is that he buys distressed companies, fixes them up and sells them in entirety of in pieces. Am I correct? Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm assuming your comment is directed at my apprehension that whoever finally gets the Amiga rights will not be a "business person", i.e. unable to come up with a decent business plan (and review/change it frequently if needed), and be lousy at communication.

As regards Mr. Kouri, I really don't know how succesful he has been with other businesses. About all I can judge him on is his long-time ownership of Amiga Inc. Business skills on the Amiga = I really can't say, as he may very well have a good plan. Communication = a failing grade. Unable to communicate with partners (EyeTech and Hyperion). Unable to communicate with potential customers -- I mean, that website is pretty sad, isn't it, especially as regards the desktop. I know you might argue that there was no product -- but who wasn't giving out licenses, so there would be a product.

Overall, I'm really not much comfortable with Mr. Kouri being the next owner of the Amiga desktop. He probably has a little more business knowledge than some alternatives, but I worry a lot about his tendancy to sell companies as soon as they are functional. And I sure don't think much of his communication.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

@Outcast

>did you join 3cag recently ?

Nope, it wasn't me. But thanks for asking.

Don Feldbruegge

@ssolie

Hmm, it seems that Hyperion have decided to play rough. Somebody mentioned (asked) if the 2 lawsuits would be combined. My understanding is that is what usually happens, but I don't think it has to necessarily be the case. I think it requires the consent of both parties. In this instance, it may be to Hyperion's advantage to have separate trials; Amiga Inc has requested a jury trial, and their lawyers seemed to emphasize emotional arguments, but without a great deal of actual substance. Hyperion's lawyer stressed the actual legalities (non-emotionally), and that was correct in front of a judge. I think they have a better opportunity if they have individual trials, with their lawsuit being heard only by a judge.

Like several others, I am just so sorry it has come to this. I also think both AI and Hyperion started out with the best intentions, but it started to go wrong right off. I'm not personally into the games bit, but can understand that AI believed there wasn't really a substantial business in the desktop, and the AmigaDE games seemed a good choice. I give them credit for having (allowing) Hyperion to proceed on the desktop end. But why did they then seem to screw them at every opportunity. I just don't understand.

Emotionally, I hope Hyperion win and get the "whole thing". Not because of anything they (the company) have necessarily done well, but because we have this great AOS4 -- thanks to the developers.

Hyperion becoming the owner of Amiga trademarks, etc. also worries me. I'm having a real problem imagining them as a "real" business. They appear to have a real problem communicating, especially with partners -- of course, it does require 2 parties to communicate. If they ever had a real business plan, one that was reviewed and updated on a regular schedule, I fail to discern it. They should have insisted on contract changes when circumstances changed. If Hyperion gets all of the Amiga rights, what will they do with it? I have this terrible fear that in a few years we will be once again having this discussion -- but then with Hyperion being the bad character. I just don't think Hyperion is prepared to deal with this.

If the Amiga computer is to continue, it is going to require a company with some money and some business sense. Money for making deals and advertising and paying developers (and office staff). Business sense because they have to plan things and schedule things. And they have to review and change the plan. They have to look beyond the desktop -- the desktop ALONE isn't a viable market. They will have to partner with other companies, and communicate with those partners. They will have to find buyers, and communicate with them. They will have to keep developers on-board, pay them and communicate with them. I think Hyperion is a small mom-and-pop type of company, and find it hard to imagine them functioning as a big company.

Incidentally, I feel the same is true of Amiga Inc. If the Amiga is to continue, it needs a real company that knows exactly what needs to be done in a business sense.

It is so sad to it come to this, with no real solution in sight.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

@Mitch

Thank you for the good summary. It was helpful.

There were 2 things that really surprised me:

1. I didn't expect the judge to be so specific in his ruling. I just expected him to say "denied", with maybe a couple of general comments.

2. I also didn't expect any specific indication that Amiga Inc was going to be admonished for not being able to prove that it was the actual owner of Amiga.

It appears to me that AI's lawsuit may very well have backfired. They may be in deep trouble. Unless they can provide proof that they legally transferred ownership from one entity to the next, they are in jeopardy of losing everything.

Perhaps this will provide the incentive to do some serious negotiating -- for both companies. If this continues on to trial, either company could end up losing everything.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

@Mitch

I've been thinking about this very same idea. That original lawsuit versus Thendic (Genesi?) resolved around whether AmigaDE was really meant to be a part of AmigaOS, now or in the future. Amiga Inc said it wasn't, and the judge accepted this and ruled against Thendic -- but did say Amiga Inc owed them AmigaDE.

In the present lawsuit vs Hyperion, AI claim that the original reason they wanted AOS4 developed was so they could proceed on to a new version of AmigaOS, one that is to include AmigeDE.(At least that is how I understand it.) And that is the reason they need the source code. Hmm, this is a direct contradiction.

Might this be the reason for the recent comments by bbrv, and the speculation that Bill Buck and AI are in discussions. Maybe a little bit of heat applied to AI's feet -- would you prefer talking to us or would you prefer that we ask for the old lawsuit to be reopened?

Believe me, none of this is meant to imply that I approve of Bill Buck. Ever since the episode in Chicago years ago, I've distrusted Bill Buck. Still, all-in-all there would be a certain poetic justice if this is what is happening.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

@Mitch

I feel badly for both ACube and ACK. I guess ACube went into this knowing they might not get a license, and I understand that they have plans to sell SAM in other markets -- so maybe they will still come out of this okay.

I'm not sure what to feel as regards Adam (ACK). I hope he has a thick skin, because he certainly is going to get a lot of abuse from users. And I sure hope that Amiga Inc is paying him some good solid cash to carry out this "charade".

Adam has no chance at all of making good on the announced plans, IMHO. He has said the small board would be available this summer. Who really thinks the lawsuit will be completed by then, and even if was over there is the little problem of having AOS4 ready to go on the board at that time, with drivers written and everything. Ditto for the big board, which is expected late next autumn/winter. And all of this assumes that Amiga Inc wins the trial, and that the developers agree to work for AI and fror ACK.

I'm not getting down on Adam. I feel somewhat sorry for him. I just think his announced plans are completely unrealistic considering the present situation. Actually, I tend to think that this is all posturing by AI for the lawsuit.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge

Hi all,

I'm not much on doing a lot of writing, so have just been reading (lurking) for the last weeks. I finally joined up today, but please don't expect me to do a lot of writing. I'm not good at it, and I don't enjoy it

I've been an Amiga user for 18-19 years. My first experience with the Amiga was my sons A1000 (I'm 68 years old), and I then bought an A500 when they became available. Graduated to an A2000 (all decked out), then a couple of A1200s. After the A1200s had both died, I reluctantly bought a Windows machine and installed WinUae (Amiga Forever). Shortly after it became obvious that the AOne/AOS4 was really going to happen, I bought an AOne XE-G4. I have had no problems with it, the only thing I've had to do was a new battery after almost 3 years of use.

I don't do anything fancy or exciting, just a lot of genealogy (Scion) and writing up the results (FinalWriter). A little email (Simplemail) and some browsing with AWeb. My needs are simple, and my Amiga serves them well

With that introduction, I have to comment that I've never been quite so down as this court case has made me. Prior to getting my AOne, I had become rather used to the WinUae emulation. Now, I consider it a pitiful example of the real thing. AOS4 has spoiled me. That windows computer (with WinUae) has become my wife's computer, and just about the only thing it is used for is WinUae -- the one exception being scanning genealogy documents. I had really been hoping so much to purchase another new AOS4 computer. I think that dream has completely disappeared now.

I just can't imagine any favorable resolution to this court case proposition. It is a lose-lose situation in my view. If Hyperion wins, there still is no license for hardware. If Amiga wins, who will continue the development. They absolutely need each other. Amiga can come up with all the hardware in the world, but without Hyperion (the developers, to be more specific), the Amiga is going nowhere. Likewise Hyperion (the developers) can improve the Amiga until hell freezes over, but are going nowhere without hardware. In my view, the end of the road has finally come.

I'm not taking sides, mind you. I'm pleased that Amiga (for whatever reasons) allowed the Amiga to continue by signing up with Hyperion and Eyetech. And the achievments of Hyperion and the developers has been absolutely unbelievable. I don't really care who wins this dumb court case, or even who was to blame. All I really care about is the Amiga, and that situation is utterly bleak, IMHO.

That windows computer (with WinUae) has been acting up for 6 months. Heck, it is already several ( 6 or 7) years old. It is likely on it's last legs. It needs to be replaced, and I was hoping to get an Amiga, and just keep the windows machine for scanning. That dream seems to have evaporated. My AOne is doing great, but it isn't exactly getting any younger either. I wanted to have the opportunity to buy a replacement when it starts having problems.

I feel like it has now finally all fallen apart for the Amiga. I see no choice but to go out and buy another windows machine to replace my wife's ailing one, install Amiga Forever on it, and use it as our (blech) Amiga. It is really deppressing to imagine, but I see no alternative. It would be sad to see an old man cry, but that is just what I feel like doing.

Regards,
Don Feldbruegge