SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games

The power compatibility is different to bus compatibility.

Max power on PCI bus is 25 W max, AGP bus is 48 W max and PCIe is 75 W max without additional power plug.

It means, if you use PCI-AGP/or PCI-PCIe adapter with AGP/PCIe cards, you are still limited to 25 W of your PCI bus in Sam.

I.e. PCIe card think, that is in the 75W bus, but you in real connected it to 25W bus. So not works without additional power.


And if the card R7 240 has 30W, is out range and you need additinal power.
I really recommend you to read again my article, all this is inside. Use google translate.

To check gfx cards parameter use this link: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/

And PCI card HD 5450 is PCIe card with 19W power + PCI-PCIe bridge incorporated on single card.

@sailor

Quote:

Is that an official statement from Aeon or have you tried yourself?

Because SAM440+PCIe bridge is listed as a supported platform here: https://wiki.amiga.org/index.php?title=RadeonHD

@geennaam
information on wiki is not exact. Sam440ep-flex + PCI-PCie adapter is compatible with RadeonHD.chip upto v3.7 only.

I forgot where is official info about v5, but it is in all forums this way. And in all shops you can select only Sam460ex version, not 440.
A-Eon.

@sailor

Yeah so in the end that does not mean something less than 460 isnt supported, maybe they got lazy and just assumed people would be aware due to the close architecutre of the CPUs and hardware that it will work with 440, 460, 480 or even a 420... LOL, have no idea what other PPC AMC models are out there in the world that arent amiga platform related but yep....

If you could test if it works on your sam440, that would indeed be a grand gesture.

Cheers

P.S. Thank you for the answer on the GPUs, I thought forums were also there to try and allow people to save time because other people have the knowledge??

I mean it took you a few minutes to write, it might take someone a few hours to read an article if its a big one... I should click on the link when Im not on my amiga next due to being unaware if it Amiga browser safe lol.

@geennaam

Very nice link

it states :
Oland chipsets require the newer RadeonHD drivers (v1.20, v2.21 or v3.6) exclusively available from the Enhancer Software Standard Edition, Plus Edition or Enhancer Software Graphics Driver Upgrade respectively.

So :
When I read this I feel pretty confident that the current driver I have will work with the R7 240 as well as the 7770 that are now sitting idle over here.

Mini GL should be supported as well perhaps with both.

Meanwhile warp 3d wise, in my libs drawer I see it in its own warp3d drawer, I even have a few at W3D_Radeon.Library is one, and then there are some others with different names in there, but also with W3D infront of them, I presume this is ok?

Also have a couple outside drawer? Warp3d and Warp3dppc libraries.

@Gebrochen

MiniGL is not supported natively by Radon SI cards.

Only Warp3D Nova / GLES is supported by the Radeon HD driver.

If you want original Warp3D/MniGL support, you will have to either :

Buy Warp3D for Radeon SI
or
Buy Novagridge

The 1st is a Warp3D/MniGL driver developped exclusively for Radeon SI cards.
The 2nd is a wrapper redirecting/translating every Warp3D/MiniGL calls to Warp3D Nova ( https://keasigmadelta.com/blog/novabri ... bility-amiwest-2021-talk/ )

W3D_Radeon.library is the Warp3D Nova library for Radeon cards.

Warp3dPPC.library comes from Rewarp3DPPC, a sort of Warp3D emulation for AmigaOS 4 which needs ReWarp to work (allows to use old WarpOS softwares on AmigaOS 4.1)

@GebrochenQuote:

I am afraid there are some misunderstanding.

Warp3D Nova, opengles, RadeonHDv3.7 ( all this is in Enhancer ) + Nova Bridge ( for compatibility with MiniGL ) IS WORKING WITH SAM 460440-EP-FLEX. I am using it daily, and it is great. You can use radeon HD cards, the best are HD77xx-HD79xx, R7, R9 ( = southern Island ).

Mentioned RadeonHDv5 is only for X1000, X5000 and Sam460ex/cr/le.
In near future I will test also RadeonHDv5 on ( unsupported ) Sam440ep-flex. But version 3.7 is enough for all except HD videos.

Edit: corection 460->440 ^^^.

@sailor

May have been a mis type from you, 460 flex? So you meant 440 flex novebridge also works with it I presume, which is nice to know.

Meanwhile, mini gl should also work again for me once I have the r7 240 or 7770 card being utilised with the system, (Smoking Guns here we come)

As for nova bridge, how much uses nove bridge versus the old Mini gl?

Most of the things I have tend to be asking me for mini gl, or unable to open no mini gl support, stuff like that.

AWESOME FACT :

I did a saturday night silly, managed to get with ease 4 music videos playing at once using Mick JT MPlayer
I could have probably even gone a 5th one, but meh, I was proud enough for the 800mhz single core Amiga

Emotion (demo version) only managed 3 videos, same codec each video btw

DVPlayer only got me 2

So then I wonder, why more people arent doing these silly testing on the newer Amigas and chucking up youtube videos and or showing what may be plausible?

I Mean I for one wouldnt mind seeing comparison videos between the modern gen systems, inclusive of work arounds for the lesser systems, such as Mplayer for the 800mhz while the 1.8ghz x1000 uses emotion to show off?

Stuff like this could be interesting.

@K-L

I tried the gles, also didnt work, I suspect it is 100% the 5450, as I do recall originally the system had a 9250, and it ran EVERYTHING that was coming out at the time.

this 5450 wont even run some of the older things that I remember working clear as day....

But I am ok with it, I'm older now and my 12 core does many things.....

It just would be nice to have some of the older software and games working again, so I am really looking forward to making this a reality by useage of the r7 240 or the 7770 gpu...

WORSE CASE scenario I backtrack back to the 9250 on this particular system just to test some things.

Thank you for the information, I will refer back to this thread with what I have read from you and sailor and others as future reference to video.

@Gebrochen

Catching up with the threads...

I didn't see if you said which version of Limpid Clock you were
running.

When I looked for it, I saw there was a v1.17 from Nov 2006 on
OS4Depot, but if you go to Thomas Rapp's webpage, he's got a
slightly newer version - by date at least - listed:

https://thomas-rapp.hier-im-netz.de/amiga/limpidclock.html

I don't frankly understand why that's "v1.8" but with a later
date, but maybe that helps you?

Good luck,

PJS

@pjs

The one on Tom's homepage is really 1.18 when unpacked - must be a typo on the web page.

I've been using it here for ages with no big problems. and I don't see any big CPU usage from it. A few percent, usually (and I do have the seconds hand selected).

Best regards,

Niels

@pjs

Thank you, I'll take a look at it, and see if its better...

At the moment everytime workbench had started I simply was iconifying the current limpid clock when not in use, which kind of voids the point

Cheers

EDIT

Just checked the one I have is 1.17, so 1.18 may be better, despite being in beta. Time will tell

@nbache

Yeah righto, again, I will find out I suppose, either way, I did notice that once I changed priority there was an improvement, but it is still best when in iconify mode or simply quit out of it.

I usually do iconify as the whole point was to have ability to look at the clock

The two others I found on the intranet one of them think was called flipclock, but unfortunately the whether thing didnt want to work for me

And forget the other one, but I believe it was only for the docky.

@K-L

I curious question and no real relation to the sam 440 gpu / stuttering issue I had.

Has anyone on here decided to push their sam 440 CPUs to go higher than 800mhz to be similar to the 460 (which actually uses a 440 cpu) performance wise?

On discord it seems no one has really been ballsy enough in case they ruin their expensive Amiga toy.

Cheers

@ All

I am still unable to work out how to get my window dragging to speed.

Does everyone have the window dragging issue, or are there some that have smooth dragging?

A friend was telling me it could be to do with my current GPU that is installed in the system, which is a 5450, and that perhaps once the new adapter kit arrives and I get the chance to install R7 240 or the 7770 that this issue might take care of itself....

So who here has smooth window dragging and what GPU are you using?

Thanks again.

@pjs

Here is something interesting, so, after a uboot update to the latest uboot for the system
Limpid clock was running even morer amapnt despite having been resolved with its priority,

I double checked sure enough priority didnt change, but cpu at 60% or more, sigh

All this because of a 240 or a 7770 attempt of an upgrade

Im back to using 5450, as even the 9250 wasnt crash hot with my 4k monitor, but the 5450 is fine and atleast boots into operating system.

ON THIS NOTE :

Has anyone made a list of issues between their cards?

5450, screen dragging ULTRA SHIT but composition nice, over all feel nice when using software, but mini GL not supported

9250 screen dragging perfect not slow, easy going, INTERESTING...

the 9250 scores a benchmark of 3 on passmark videobench, but the 5450 scores around 230, yet the 9250 in AMIGA world better??? WTF is going on here? LOL

@GebrochenQuote:

In real, Sam460ex not uses 440 CPU. It uses AMCC 460ex CPU. And Sam440ep uses AMCC 440ep CPU.
Both CPUs uses the same core ( PPC440 ), but the rest is different.
Take a look here for differences: 440ep 460ex.

For example Sam460ex/cr/LE has more than five times higher speed of write to video RAM.
And regarding of overclocking of Sam440ep: do it exactly like is recommended in Hyperclock: for frequencies above 800 MHz place fan on CPU cooler. In this case it is safe.

And if you want us to help you with graphics issues, it will be good to provide at least your version of RadeonHD.chip or Enhancer.
New RadeonHD is a must, if you use HD cards. If you use the one from AmigaOS installer CD, it is limited version only. And probably reason of stuttering.

@sailor

The stuttering is GONE since the advice of Geennaam as well as my luck infinding out the CPU load issue coming from a timing from the Limpid clock Program...

Initially I changed its priority to -4 and it kind of fixed it but it is best when Limpid clock doesnt even start when system boots....

ALSO OF NOTE :

When I tested my 9250, the dragging was perfect and fast and smooth, which makes no sense as the passmark videobench rates that card at 3, and the 5450 at around 136 or something, meaning the 5450 is supposed to be way better....

But I suppose in AMIGA LAND its the opposite,,,,,

Moving forward to drivers, I am definitely not using the original driver, haven't for a long time...

According to Hans NZ website, driver 2.2 would already be sufficient for the R7 240, alas I have a much higher version so I can not see the driver being the issue.

My friend came over and we will continue later, but for now we have noticed thanks to his Serial Link to his laptop, ( Yes he actually has certain things as he seems to find himself in many pickles with his xe1 or x1000 it seems) anyway, that Amiga OS does recognise it, but I may still for some reason be lacking power.

Which again geennam did mention that I may require yet another adapter to make it all work for Amiga Os to load into the OS, as despite seeing UBOOT, and the kickstart etc to its loading sequence, this is where it then stops with a black screen.

It seems Highly Likely that my current two adapters, the new RAIL Adapter is perfect, giving both cards more than ample power, R7 240 and the 7770 by gigabyte, but the Amiga OS fails potentially one cause is indeed as forementioned the translation between Amiga os and the adapter versus the cards in question.

Geenaam to be fair has been a great help and has been very kind even through my frustrations on Discord.

Magic and a few other nice people like early on Trixie also mentioned some things, skatman, all very kind Amigans like yourself, have helped and it's been a pleasure (and some pain, lol) during this process of elimination.

So, in the end I may need yet another adapter to change my current adapter that goes into the pci slot itself, but the RAIL adapter is more than ample according to geenaam who states he has done tests himself and not many were successful with the adapter I am using...... I think it was a :

PEX 8111, my one says made in japan, but either way, probably no real difference other than where it was made.

SO

In conclusion, the dragging of windows will automatically fix itself, as if a 9250 fixes that and more, I cant imagine a r7 240 or a 7770 not fixing it with amplitude...

9250 bench score 3
5450 bench score 136? but due to limited support in Amiga not a better card on the amiga
R7 240 by memory in the 900s, perhaps 906 in bench score
7770 had the nicest of my cards at 2000s something bench score

for exact figures, give me a moment :
https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/com ... -R7-240-vs-Radeon-HD-7770

Wowsers, Morph Os browser pretty awesome... Anyhow.

THank you for the help, and all the links, had a look and some interesting data.

My friend still wishes to try later and see if we can get it working, but if not, atleast I have a road map ahead of me somewhat laid out thanks to geenaam and a link.

So I've tested it myself. There is something going wrong even if the 5450 is slowed down by a PCI bus. But the 9250 is PCI card and as stated has no problems. The 5450, however, is really slow when dragging a window by the sizing gadget. It's practically unusable. It's like moving a window on my A1 Linux. :D

Gebrochen:
Try this for now. In GUI Prefs. Controls section on left. Disable resize window with contents.

@Hypex

Lol, How did you know that I might wish to use and utilize things on my Amiga OS rather than just sit there waiting for movement?

Yes indeed will try later your suggestion and see how it works.

Thanks.