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The "uploader" mystery.
Supreme Council
Joined:
2006/11/16 19:25
From Sweden
Posts: 3101
As you may have noticed, more and more files are uploaded by the mysterious "uploader".

As of today this or these persons (I suspect there's more than one) have uploaded 190 files and more and more are uploaded every day with the share of people that are uploading their files themselves becoming more and more rare.

Why is this happening? Are people expecting this "uploader" to upload their files for them or have they simply decided that OS4Depot is no longer worth the effort?

What is your take on this issue? Is it time for OS4Depot to pack it up? Does something need to be changed for people to upload their files themselves?

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Re: The "uploader" mystery.
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/9/11 11:31
From Russia
Posts: 4193
I do some uploads as uploader year ago i think. Lately i didn't have much time for , so its some other ppls now.

Reasons why i do it before are one : to have everything at one place. Most of time authors just lazy, and do not worry about one stock where every newbe can find everything. Some apps just can die somewhere in the internet, if don't re-upload them on os4depot.

Quote:

or have they simply decided that OS4Depot is no longer worth the effort?


They simple lazy, and have other things to do. So while other ones have time, they help newbes.

Quote:

Is it time for OS4Depot to pack it up?


Nope, whatever who do all those uploads now, he do good job and help newbes (which we almost didn't have, but at least those ones which come rarely, know that all the stuff avail on os4depot).

For example, now we have on os4depot old version of directoryopus4. I mean realy old version. And lately there was even public release of new version (which years ahead of that one which on os4depot). Why authors do not upload it on os4depot ? I do not know, milions reasons, but worth it if someone will just grab it from sourceforge, and upload to os4depot ? Of course it will be good. If i remember right, i even trying to do so year ago, but wasn't able to do so, as owner of previous file seems do not want it to be replaced or something. And you can see in the comments, that ppls start to download version from os4depot, and instead of upgrade, downgrade.

So, if uploader will come, and replace dopus4 on new version, that will be only good, imho. As does not matter who uploader is now, he have time to search for new stuff, and keep os4depot up2date with content. Other ones didn't have time for, and authors of programs as well.

For example all mui classes, hollywood extensions, all have their place on their own sites, and authors didn't upload them ever there. If not uploader, almost no users will know that there is something new about (especially when it come to mui classes, which most of time released in silence).

Quote:

Does something need to be changed for people to upload their files themselves?


Authors lazy, authors have their agendas, authors think everyone monitor their sites, authors have no time, authors have no interest to upload anything anywhere except their pages. Probably nothing can be done there. Those who want, already do so, those who don't will not.

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Re: The "uploader" mystery.
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/6 19:36
Posts: 412
@kas1e

I agree with kas1e

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Re: The "uploader" mystery.
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/29 8:09
From Lyon, France
Posts: 897
The only trouble with the recent uploads is that we do not know if these are recent files or if these are old files recently uploaded.

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Re: The "uploader" mystery.
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/1/26 21:48
From New Zealand
Posts: 1851
@all
If you want to upload something to any website (os4depot included) that isn't yours, then please make sure that you have the author's/copyright-holder's permission. Just because a file is freely downloadable via the internet does NOT automatically give you permission to upload it elsewhere.

@orgin
Os4depot is definitely a valuable resource. If authors of software choose not to upload their software (or a demo) to os4depot, then their software is also less likely to be discovered and used.

As for increasing the number of people who upload files themselves, perhaps it would help lazy programmers if there was an option to fetch the latest version automatically from a URL. I'm thinking along the lines of how other more mainstream shareware directories use PAD files. It would work something like this:
Authors would host a small descriptor file on their own site with version information, a download URL, and implicit permission to upload to sites like os4depot. After initial submission, os4depot could periodially check this file for updates. When a new version is detected, os4depot would download and update it automatically. If the aminet also supported this update method, then authors would only have to upload the file and descriptor on their own site, and it would get to both os4depot and aminet automatically.

If a system like that were put in place, then I'd recommend adding the restriction that the descriptor file and actual download would have to be on the same domain. That would reduce the chance that people other than the actual author/copyright-holder could create a descriptor and have the files uploaded illegally.

NOTE: The descriptor file format would have to be simple and easily created, or there should be a tool to generate it (one that also checks that things like the download URL are correct). Otherwise I don't see people bothering to use it.

Hans

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Re: The "uploader" mystery.
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2006/12/4 23:15
Posts: 1883
@Hans

Quote:

As for increasing the number of people who upload files themselves, perhaps it would help lazy programmers if there was an option to fetch the latest version automatically from a URL. I'm thinking along the lines of how other more mainstream shareware directories use PAD files. It would work something like this:
Authors would host a small descriptor file on their own site with version information, a download URL, and implicit permission to upload to sites like os4depot. After initial submission, os4depot could periodially check this file for updates. When a new version is detected, os4depot would download and update it automatically. If the aminet also supported this update method, then authors would only have to upload the file and descriptor on their own site, and it would get to both os4depot and aminet automatically.


That sounds like quote a bit of work for orgin though, and I'm not convince by the lazy programer reason. It might apply to few, but I'd say the majority of programmers who keep stuff on their own sites do it because they want to for some reason, be it because they want control over distribution, they want traffic on their site, they want to hold back beta versions and only upload working software to os4depot, etc etc.




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Re: The "uploader" mystery.
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2006/12/4 23:15
Posts: 1883
@orgin

I think os4depot remains an imporant resource. I still put all my free software up there, with small exception like some example support scripts for sketchblock.

In earlier times third party uploaders would use their real names. Perhaps a login system to enforce that? That way only third party uploaders with permision would be likely to upload.

It's also a possibilty that one or two devs have got used to "uploader" doing for them, so don't bother directly any more.

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Re: The "uploader" mystery.
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2008/1/6 17:56
From Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 1247
@orgin
Quote:
Why is this happening? Are people expecting this "uploader" to upload their files for them or have they simply decided that OS4Depot is no longer worth the effort?

What is your take on this issue? Is it time for OS4Depot to pack it up? Does something need to be changed for people to upload their files themselves?


Are you upset because "uploader" is uploading so many files or because programmers aren't spending time uploading them instead of focusing on programming? As long as uploader is listing the author and providing a link to the source of the files, what difference does it make who uploads??

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Re: The "uploader" mystery.
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2008/1/6 17:56
From Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 1247
@K-L
Quote:
The only trouble with the recent uploads is that we do not know if these are recent files or if these are old files recently uploaded.

As far as I can tell, uploader is providing a version number and a link to the source of the files so you can check for more recent versions. It probably wouldn't hurt to add a "Release date" to the file description.

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Re: The "uploader" mystery.
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/1/26 21:48
From New Zealand
Posts: 1851
@broadblues

Quote:
That sounds like quote a bit of work for orgin though, and I'm not convince by the lazy programer reason.

Yes, that is quite a bit of work. However, Orgin did ask for ideas...

Quote:
It might apply to few, but...

I think that the number "too lazy" to upload is higher than you think.

Quote:
I'd say the majority of programmers who keep stuff on their own sites do it because they want to for some reason, be it because they want control over distribution, they want traffic on their site, ...

Anyone who doesn't want their software on os4depot for the reason that you describe above is very short sighted. For starters, os4depot is a great way to get exposure for your software. Your software's potential users (i.e., AmigaOS 4 users) look there for software to download. It's naive to think that they'll keep checking your website, or even know that it exists. This is precisely why shareware authors (who want to make a living from their software) upload their software to as many shareware sites as they can find. It would be commercial suicide not to.

Even if it's free software, I assume that the authors would still love to get lots of people using it. Sites like os4depot are a good tool to get your software into the hands of more people.

Quote:
...they want to hold back beta versions and only upload working software to os4depot, etc etc.


That is a fair point, and is one reason why I don't like people uploading other people's software/creations without their permission.


As an aside, I remember deciding to stop posting news articles about my software to Amiga forums, mainly because I couldn't be bothered. I quickly discovered that if I didn't post news articles personally, then my "news" would be posted by others in obscure threads instead, and few people would notice. By contrast, if I posted it myself, then it would get reposted as news articles across the various community sites, resulting in a traffic spike to my website. Lesson learned: when you have something newsworthy to tell, don't be lazy about spreading the word. The same goes for uploading to sites like os4depot.

Hans

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Re: The "uploader" mystery.
Supreme Council
Joined:
2006/11/16 19:25
From Sweden
Posts: 3101
@xenic

As strange as it may seem I'm looking for feedback on the whole situation and suggestions on any changes I should do if any. The concept of "upset" is not at play here.

As for "spending time uploading them instead of focusing on programming". Beign a developer myself, the time needed to upload something is marginal at best and it does not infringe on the comparatively vast time needed for coding. The time needed to upload a file is so small that if it is a factor that impedes a developers coding then that developer wouldn't have time needed to do useful coding in the first place.

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Mr Bobo Cornwater
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Re: The "uploader" mystery.
Quite a regular
Joined:
2010/5/16 11:20
From Grimsby, UK
Posts: 947
Yeah its ridiculous to suggest programmers are simply lazy, as Orgin stipulates, it takes practically no time to upload a title to OS4Depot. They will have all the information already to hand before uploading.. i.e. every good app already has a .Readme included in the distribution so its a simple cut and paste job. Thats my experience at least.

As for the 'uploader', good on him/her is all I can say, if indeed they are filling in as many fields as possible then they clearly care about what they are doing - of course this does pose the question is this same person blocking future uploads of the same name by applying a passcode? You would hope not.

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Re: The "uploader" mystery.
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2009/2/9 19:32
From Brussels Belgium
Posts: 1080
@orgin
Why not add a list of programmersites , URL's, feedback wanted, maybe have the possibility to list even the URL's of their program's, permission for automatic upload, or a general description of what they are about.


One reason programmers may prefer that is they might more readily have feedback & bugreports, give general help on inttalling or compiling on their site: have the feeling they do usefull work


True: searching might be more difficult


Edited by JosDuchIt on 2015/3/27 7:36:16
Edited by JosDuchIt on 2015/3/27 7:38:06
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Re: The "uploader" mystery.
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/5/19 13:23
From England
Posts: 3487
@orgin Quote:
Does something need to be changed for people to upload their files themselves?

I can only speak for myself, but I suspect it applies to other people:

I do upload to OS4Depot, but I find that uploading to OS4Depot is much more laborious than uploading to Aminet, as OS4Depot requires using a Web page, where-as Aminet allows you to do it by just uploading two files by FTP (the Archive & a specially formatted ReadMe). The benefits, particularly when updating existing programs, are:

1. The FTP way means I can take my time (off-line) deciding the exact details I want (especially Name, Description, Requirements & Readme text), potentially over several days. But the Web page way means I have to think-up & enter all the details "right now" (which can take some time to get right), or else laboriously copy & paste the details from a text file that I prepared earlier (which is what I do but it feels like duplication of effort, which I hate).

2. The FTP way means I can automate the final upload step, such that once I've got the ReadMe exactly how I want, I can just run a script which uploads it (using FTP Mount). I can't with the Web page way (it might technically be possible, but it would require emulating a web browser's HTTP responses).


I'm sure the Web page way is preferable for some people, and probably does make "the first time" more user-friendly, but when I have many programs to update (or upload for the first time) the FTP way is far easier for me.

EDIT:
P.S. In case it isn't obvious, I upload to OS4Depot despite my complaint, so obviously I think OS4Depot is a valuable site for AmigaOS4 users & it is my first port of call for OS4 software. To echo Mikey C, I too would be lost without it.


Edited by ChrisH on 2015/3/28 9:12:03
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Re: The "uploader" mystery.
Just popping in
Joined:
2006/11/24 14:19
From Georgia, USA. Just north of the Florida border
Posts: 207
@orgin
Speaking only for myself (of course) I am grateful for the Depot and I think it's a very valuable resource for the community and the developers. Please keep it up and running.
I choose the release dates for my software carefully, often because new features require roll-out in a certain order, and sometimes just because I want to make sure something is as solid as possible before release.
I would be quite upset if the uploader decided to take over my distribution without my previous consent. "doing me a favor" because I am "too lazy to do it myself" are not grounds for anonymous parties to take control of my work. At the very least I would expect the uploader to be identified so I could take my dispute to them personally.
Like I said, it's just my opinion, and it does not seem to be the popular approach to this topic.

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Re: The "uploader" mystery.
Amigans Defender
Joined:
2006/11/19 17:45
From Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 2062
Speaking for myself only, i'd be lost without OS4Depot.


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Re: The "uploader" mystery.
Quite a regular
Joined:
2010/5/16 11:20
From Grimsby, UK
Posts: 947
Being purely selfish, after putting years of effort in the Jack AppStore I too would miss it if it were to disappear - although from what I read that was never a serious suggestion.

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Re: The "uploader" mystery.
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2008/1/6 17:56
From Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 1247
@orginQuote:
As strange as it may seem I'm looking for feedback on the whole situation and suggestions on any changes I should do if any. The concept of "upset" is not at play here.

Possibly, "concerned" would have been a better choice of words than "upset".

Quote:
As for "spending time uploading them instead of focusing on programming". Beign a developer myself, the time needed to upload something is marginal at best and it does not infringe on the comparatively vast time needed for coding. The time needed to upload a file is so small that if it is a factor that impedes a developers coding then that developer wouldn't have time needed to do useful coding in the first place.

After spending a "comparatively vast time needed for coding" to provide users with "free" software, I don't think we should impose any constraints on programmers regarding how the software gets uploaded to OS4Depot. I simply don't understand why it's an issue that needs attention unless uploader is not notifying author's that their programs are being uploaded to OS4Depot. If a programmer makes a mistake and needs to withdraw a release, he/she needs to know who to contact (uploader) to get the program removed from OS4Depot until it can be fixed.

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Re: The "uploader" mystery.
Home away from home
Joined:
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From Russia
Posts: 4193
@xenic
Btw, its ok if i will upload latest dopus4 as uploader on os4depot ?

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Re: The "uploader" mystery.
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2008/1/6 17:56
From Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 1247
@kas1e
It's O.K. to upload it if you want to. The current Dopus4 on OS4Depot is named "directoryopus.lha" and was placed there by the original author (Joachim) who ported it to OS4. If you want to upload a new version of Dopus4, please upload it as "Dopus4.lha" to avoid confusion with Dopus5; which is also at OS4Depot. It might be a good idea to ask Orgin to remove the old version too.

In the readme please add a link to the SourceForge diropus4 project files page:

Minor updates may be available at: http://sourceforge.net/projects/diropus4/files


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