I expect to take delivery next week on a new SamFlex system with AmigaOS 4.1 from AmigaKit. It comes with a USB keyboad and mouse, although I expect I'll want to upgrade the keyboard as I'm rather picky about those.
But I wonder is it necessary to use a keyboard with Windows keys emulating the Amiga keys. Under 4.1, which I've never used, how are the Amiga keys handled? I'm assuming most use the Windows keys, but how is this handled on a keyboard without Windows keys? Big pain to do such a thing?
Wish we had a nice custom USB Amiga keyboard, but I know that's asking much.
AmigaOS 4.1 uses the "Windows" keys as the Command (Amiga) keys. Most keyboards these days have the right "Windows" key missing, and AmigaOS 4.1 can map this to the right "Menu" key instead.
An Amiga branded keyboard would be lovely, but as you say, keyboards are something that is incredibly personal to users, and as such some may not find the keyboard suits their use.
Recently I bought a new keyboard, and this has the right "Menu" key moved onto a multimedia button, which requires the pressing of another key first to access these. Needless to say, the changed "Menu" key no longer maps correctly under AmigaOS. This was a real shock to me, as the keyboard wasn't cheap and it IS very nice, so I had to write a small program that changes the R-Alt key into a R-Command so that I could access the menu shortcuts. I'm looking at improving this and changing the soft-reboot sequence to CTRL-ALT-Delete so that I can still reboot the machine easily when coding :)
Anyway, the long and the short of it, is that whatever "direction" keyboards go in, there will always be someone out there determined to get it working on AmigaOS 4.1.
Rigo, thanks for the information. It means the keyboard I have in house and was hoping to use will be no good for this application, as it lacks Windows keys. Now I'm thinking about getting a Das keyboard, made in Austin, Texas, here in the USA. It's got a nice look and the mechanical keys I desire.
It's available with and without lettering on the keys, as apparently Super Geeks and the most proficient touch typists don't need the lettering. I'm going to contact the company to see if they can make me one with lettering and symbols everywhere except the Windows keys. I'd rather have blank "Amiga" keys than ones with Windows logos! I'm sure you understand!!!
I had to write a small program that changes the R-Alt key into a R-Command
Why did you have to write a program for this?
That should be possible with the UBoot variable kbddev_mapping for PS/2 keyboards or the HID environment variables for USB keyboards. See SYS:Documentation/Keyboards.doc
Well, because there was no "real" R-Command key, the keyboard reset handler didn't recognise the new combo for a soft-reboot, so I added Ctrl-Alt-Delete as a soft reboot inside the program too. At least now I can soft reboot /most/ of the time.
hi, congrats on your new Samflex & OS4.1 purchase and welcome aboard as for the windows keys on my USB keyboard I just simply printed out a small boing ball pic on 1 side adheasive paper and stuck them on the windows keys..works great ..and of course have the 'powered by AMIGA' logo on my tower case too !
also strongly recomend you check out glUAE by saimo or RunInUAE by Chris to run your classic 68k games/apps (both are great but I find glUAE to be better with AGA games)
I don't see why there should be any difference! But please PM with some info about the game(s) which don't work so well, along with any game-specific settings you use.
They have the "Amiga" (Command) keys in the same place as on real Amiga keyboards. They have CapsLock light in the key, like on real Amiga keyboards. The number pad is much closer to how they were on a real Amiga. They are high quality, and feel very nice to me. They don't have any stupid "Function Lock" key, with the Function keys disabled by default. They don't have lots of ridiculous "multimedia" keys wasting space.
On the down side, the function keys F13 to F19 are unsupported. The Eject & "fn" keys are unsupported. And there is no ScrollLock key, which is what OS4 uses for the Help key (although I don't think this is really used anyway). Wish someone would modify OS4 to fix these issues (innocently looks at Rigo).
On the down side, the function keys F13 to F19 are unsupported. The Eject & "fn" keys are unsupported. And there is no ScrollLock key, which is what OS4 uses for the Help key (although I don't think this is really used anyway). Wish someone would modify OS4 to fix these issues (innocently looks at Rigo).
Actually, the volume and eject keys work fine, and the key marked "help" acts as "help" here. I use AllKeys, my config file (or something approximating it) is in the mackbd archive on Aminet/OS4Depot.
F13-F16 and the equals key on the numeric keypad don't function at all however, even AllKeys fails to see them. Despite the lack of visible feedback, NumLock does actually work as expected.
Your keyboard is a different model to mine, but I'd be surprised if Apple have changed the keycodes for the keys which are marked the same on both.
@rigo It would be useful to have a kbddev_insert_is_help-type U-Boot variable to remap the Help key to the correct place, as the Help key can be used to enter Early Startup when no mouse is attached.
It would be great if you could do something! I have two spare Apple keyboards (one has a broken key, and the other is an old-style Apple keyboard), so I am sure I could lend you one.
@Chris Quote:
the volume and eject keys work fine, and the key marked "help" acts as "help" here. I use AllKeys,
You must have and old-style Apple keyboard (with chunky not flat keys). They changed how the volume/eject keys are handled in the new-style keyboards:
The Eject key was moved to where F13 used to be, while the sound keys were replaced with F keys (hence it has up to F19 not F16). They replaced the Help key with "Fn" that is used to make certain F keys act as volume/etc keys (this seems to be done in software as it has no effect under OS4).
EDIT: I had previously tried AllKeys (but checked again), and it is NO help. There are NO keyboard codes generated for F13-F19, Eject, Fn, or Num= . BTW, "Fn" is NOT treat like Insert, so I have no Insert key, and your suggestion about mapping Insert to Help would not help me :(
You are right about "Num=" not being recognised by OS4!
BTW, *minor* (since it should be easily fixable) downside of the Apple keyboards is that the location of " and @ are swapped (compared to what the keyboard shows), while the ` key gives \, and the \ key gives # . However, it is the same when I use Windows (I have a KVM switcher so both OS4 & Windows use the same keyboard), so I have gotten used to it, and in fact changing it would be confusing for me!
Edited by ChrisH on 2010/5/23 12:20:51 Edited by ChrisH on 2010/5/23 12:21:46 Edited by ChrisH on 2010/5/23 12:41:32
Hey interrogative, you got a picture of your custom Unicomp? I had looked at their Web site and am encouraged that they made you slanty-A's keys.
328gts, thanks for the welcome. Very good idea on your boing stickers, and I have downloaded glUAE. May have to give RunInUAE a go too.
Antique, looking forward to seeing what keyboard and mouse the X1000 ships with. I really like the tower case they picked.
ChrisH, I certainly have plenty of Apple keyboards around the house, so I will definitely try one out with the Samiga before ordering anything else. I'm a big fin of the Matias Tactile Pro 2.0 keyboard and have two of those for my Mac systems. The 3.0 version has replaced it and unfortunately is only available in white -- when it is available, that is. Appears to be sold out everywhere.
Thanks, all. My Sam system should be delivered tomorrow. I'll certainly use the keyboard and mouse it comes with at first, but I know I will end up going with a "clicky" keyboard like the Das, Unicomp or Tactile Pro before it's over. And I like Logitech cordless mice, so hoping one of those will work.
I actually got the eclipse one which is just as nice. It is full size with two windows keys representing the both amiga command keys and very nice to type on.
I also got a nice keyboard from a powermac but I actually prefer this keyboard.
Forgot to say that the only multimedia buttons are three small volume buttons to raise, lower or mute the sound.
The round button is for adjusting the strength of the backlight. You can also change between three backligth colors (one on my eclipse one). This is not important to me, the way the keyboard feels and and that it feels like good quality are more important, the backlight is just a bonus.
You must have and old-style Apple keyboard (with chunky not flat keys). They changed how the volume/eject keys are handled in the new-style keyboards:
Yes, I have.
Quote:
The Eject key was moved to where F13 used to be, while the sound keys were replaced with F keys (hence it has up to F19 not F16). They replaced the Help key with "Fn" that is used to make certain F keys act as volume/etc keys (this seems to be done in software as it has no effect under OS4).
EDIT: I had previously tried AllKeys (but checked again), and it is NO help. There are NO keyboard codes generated for F13-F19, Eject, Fn, or Num= . BTW, "Fn" is NOT treat like Insert, so I have no Insert key, and your suggestion about mapping Insert to Help would not help me :(
You are right about "Num=" not being recognised by OS4!
Oh F13-F16 don't work here either, but Eject and the volume keys do. Strange that they would change the keycode for Eject.
Quote:
BTW, *minor* (since it should be easily fixable) downside of the Apple keyboards is that the location of " and @ are swapped (compared to what the keyboard shows), while the ` key gives \, and the \ key gives # . However, it is the same when I use Windows (I have a KVM switcher so both OS4 & Windows use the same keyboard), so I have gotten used to it, and in fact changing it would be confusing for me!
That's a keymap problem. I again point you to the mackbd archive
The same issue applies to Windows, but I don't know how to define custom keymaps there.
Everything is in the right place here, even ? on the top-left key - and I don't have any use for that at all (I don't even know what it means, in fact I don't think I'd seen that symbol anywhere before getting this keyboard)
Well, decided on a course, as I can't stand this keyboard a minute longer than necessary. So this evening I ordered a Das Professional S keyboard. The nice lady at Das (Erin) agreed to send me some blank keycaps so I can get rid of the Windows logo keys.
I also bought a Logitech LX8 cordless mouse (matches the three I already have for my Macs).
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F13-F16 don't work here either, but Eject and the volume keys do. Strange that they would change the keycode for Eject.
