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Re: Video editing software bounty?
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/1/26 21:48
From New Zealand
Posts: 1822
Quote:

Deniil wrote:

A full featured editor like you propose is sadly nothing I expect to ever see on Amiga (although I would love to!) since the developer base seems to be shrinking, and those who are still here have growned up into families and jobs etc. and have very little time.


Where did I propose a full-featured app? I never talked about features. If I do ever get round to writing a video editor, then I'd probably start with something simple first (e.g., a simple Virtual-Dub style editor).

I'm talking about getting an encoder library so that developers have the tools to write video editors of any size that work well easily (both big and small). It's something that only needs to be done once, and it opens up some great new possibilities. We just need one person to take the time to do this, and then there will be no more need for dirty hacks.

Quote:
What I'm trying to say: I rather have a simple app than no app at all.


To each his own I guess. For me, an app that has been kludged together is worse than no app, because it wastes my time. My apologies to those who are writing editors using ffmpeg, but performing encoding by exporting the data and running it through an external program is a horrible kludge. I've experienced too much frustration and had too much of my time wasted by trying to use tools/apps that were slapped together in a similar fashion. This is particularly true of video editors, and there's a reason why I eventually bought an editor after trying almost every open-source editor out there.

I know that developers could still kludge together poorly designed apps even if we had the encoder library, but at least developers would have the right tools to be able to make stuff that works the way that they should.

Quote:
Edit: But for a bounty, yes, I would also expect "the real thing".


Thank you.

Hans

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Re: Video editing software bounty?
Just popping in
Joined:
2008/10/9 20:20
Posts: 13
I hope that QuickVideos gets ported from Aros to OS4, its GUI is inspired by the Video Toaster video editor and it's completely original Amiga programming, not a port from another OS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq4r9k0_jZI

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Re: Video editing software bounty?
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/5/19 13:23
From England
Posts: 3460
@Cammy
At the end of the video, there appears to be an offer to port it to AmigaOS4 & MorphOS... but only if there is interest in paying some sort of porting fee. So I guess OS4 & MOS video-editing fans need to see whether it would meet their needs, and then enquire about the cost.

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Re: Video editing software bounty?
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2008/5/2 12:14
From Sweden
Posts: 473
@Hans

So a bounty for an avencoder.library then? Or simply do it and then a bounty for an editor? Anyway, it is a good idea.

@Cammy

Looked at QuickVideos and it looks somewhat like what we want, even if it uses mencoder. However, mencoder does support millisecond precision, not just seconds. Someone should tell then that. The syntax is [[hh:]mm:]ss[.ms], so with only a simply number it will be treated as seconds only.

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Re: Video editing software bounty?
Quite a regular
Joined:
2009/5/1 17:57
From Czech Republic
Posts: 918
@Hans

Quote:

For me, an app that has been kludged together is worse than no app, because it wastes my time. My apologies to those who are writing editors using ffmpeg, but performing encoding by exporting the data and running it through an external program is a horrible kludge.

I agree. I once tried to build a sound editor on top of SoX but I gave up because I didn't like what I was doing Sending data to and from an external program via pipe or intermediate files is simply not nice.

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Re: Video editing software bounty?
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/2/23 13:49
From Finland, the land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki
Posts: 1047
Quote from Aros QuickVideo page: "This is the Quick Videos for Aros which is a powerful GUI for the open source Mencoder/Mplayer toolkits."

So it's basicly the same as VideoEditor for AmigaOS4 on os4depot.net already so no need to port anything. Unless it has more features (or people likes its GUI and so on).

I've changed VideoEditor to use internally avcodec, avformat and swscale in the meanwhile. Video part works both reading and saving. But I can't make audio part to work at all. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Btw. This is my first time, and the first attempt, to get any sound out of AHI ever !

There's libbffmpeg.so in the Blender. I'm wondering why there's extra b in between lib and ffmpeg. Or could I use it instead of libffmpeg.a from MickJT. (I'll have to test myself.) But MickJT's port is newer version anyway.

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Re: Video editing software bounty?
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/2/23 13:49
From Finland, the land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki
Posts: 1047
But, anybody, feel free to create that bounty !

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Re: Video editing software bounty?
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/11/28 22:14
Posts: 310
@Hans

Sorry but I still dont get why you are so negative against what I'm say...

I'm simply say that having a *full* video editor that the *only* thing it miss was that he saves in a single way(avi/jpg/mov/anim no mater).
So the only "weird" thing to do was to save the edited video in the supported format and than use ffmpeg or mencoder(or simply made a script doing that) to convert it in a "standard" format...

And also the program can simply be enanched in future to use the encoder lib where available and than saves directly...

But why wait for a program that can do all the things and only lacks tha saves routine/lib?

Or it can simply have a plug-in system to implement the savers easly where it will be available no?

So ugly? Not seems to me...

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Re: Video editing software bounty?
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Joined:
2006/12/4 23:15
Posts: 1849
@TSK

The b is there to differentiate it from a plain libffmpeg.so should it occur. The ffmpeg that comes with blender has a couple of minor blender specific modifications IIRC.

Why do you need a .so anyway? You should avoid shared objects unles you 1, doing a linux port or 2. need dynamic linking for a plugin system.


Whilst I'm here I'm wondering why some people think blender is slow ? I haven't made direct comparisons with a dedicated video editor an other platforms but considering what blender is doing, decoding 1 or more video steams modifying (scaling / colour correcting / blending in title images etc) then reencoding the result I'd be suprised if you could do that much faster on our given hardware, and your certainly not going to get real time video previewing on a machine that struggles to play video in a dedicated video editor.


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Re: Video editing software bounty?
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/2/23 13:49
From Finland, the land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki
Posts: 1047
@broadblues
Quote:
Why do you need a .so anyway? You should avoid shared objects unles you 1, doing a linux port or 2. need dynamic linking for a plugin system.

LibFFmpeg comes with bunch of licenses. If I've understood correctly if I'll use a static lib I have to use all those licenses myself. But if it's a separate library then it's up to end users to install that library and I don't have to mess with any of those licenses.

I don't have required skills (or time, I guess it's quite big job,) to make an Amiga libraries myself. It depends on if there's enough skilled enough people in the community with enough free time to do it. Either Amiga lib or .so lib, I don't care which one.

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Re: Video editing software bounty?
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2006/12/4 23:15
Posts: 1849
@TSK

You can't just assume that. It depends very much on the individual licenses but if you link against a library you code needs to take that libraries license into account. LGPL lets you keep your code closed GPL requires to you to use a GPL compatable open source license., later GPL versions extend that to dynamic linking too.

shared libraries (amiga style) may not count as dynamic linking but shared objects (.so) do as far as I understand.


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Re: Video editing software bounty?
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/7/7 3:34
From Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2183
video editing with Blender is definitely something I want to try. I found an interesting blog with 3 videos on it from some linux dude here

I wonder if anyone can post their experiences with it on a Sam460 or PegII

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Re: Video editing software bounty?
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2006/12/4 23:15
Posts: 1849
It should work on a Peg-11 but you need WAZP3D on a sam460 at the moment.

I haven't got a 460 but have tried blender briefly with a 440 using wazp and it was usable (but slower ) I don't think the slow down would effect video editing too much though. The bottleneck there is more in terms of procesing the video data than displaying it with GL

If you do try blender with WAZP3D remeber to keep the window / screen size less than 1024 pixels WAZP3D has a display limit.


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Re: Video editing software bounty?
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/2/23 13:49
From Finland, the land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki
Posts: 1047
@broadblues
Quote:
later GPL versions extend that to dynamic linking too

That's bad. I guess Amiga lib is the best way then. Is LGPL good enough with ffmpeg ?

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Re: Video editing software bounty?
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/1/26 21:48
From New Zealand
Posts: 1822
Quote:

Tuxedo wrote:
@Hans

Sorry but I still dont get why you are so negative against what I'm say...


I have no interest in poor quality software, which is what you're asking for. I'm trying to get people to do this properly, and you're working against that by advocating the quick and dirty route under the "better than nothing" mantra. IMHO, it's NOT "better than nothing."

I'm simply say that having a *full* video editor that the *only* thing it miss was that he saves in a single way(avi/jpg/mov/anim no mater).
So the only "weird" thing to do was to save the edited video in the supported format and than use ffmpeg or mencoder(or simply made a script doing that) to convert it in a "standard" format...[/quote]

Okay, I'll try to spell this out as simply as possible. I have NO interest whatsoever in any video editor that executes an external program such as ffmpeg or mencoder to do the encoding. Whether it's a fully-featured editor or a simple one, I'm not interested for reasons that I have already explained. Just in case you've missed it:

"For me, an app that has been kludged together is worse than no app, because it wastes my time. My apologies to those who are writing editors using ffmpeg, but performing encoding by exporting the data and running it through an external program is a horrible kludge."

I have wasted too much time trying to use software like this, and I'm not interested in wasting more.

The biggest kicker for me is that, honestly, it really isn't that hard to create an avencoders.library containing the libavcodec encoders, so I don't understand why there's such big resistance to getting that done first. Once it's done, all developers could take advantage of it, and its saves time that would have been needed to implement the hacks and then retrofit the proper solution later. Heck, if creating a shared library is too much for you, you could even use a shared-object version like Blender does, or statically link it.

Hans

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Re: Video editing software bounty?
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/1/26 21:48
From New Zealand
Posts: 1822
Quote:

TSK wrote:

I've changed VideoEditor to use internally avcodec, avformat and swscale in the meanwhile. Video part works both reading and saving. But I can't make audio part to work at all. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.


Now we're getting somewhere. Good luck.

I'll create a bounty for a shared-library version of the avcodec encoders. BTW, where is the avcodec.library source-code kept?

Hans

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Re: Video editing software bounty?
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/1/26 21:48
From New Zealand
Posts: 1822
I have created a bounty for the avencoder.library, here. Now it's up to the amigabounty.net committee to decide when to open it.

Hans

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Re: Video editing software bounty?
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/30 18:43
From Norway
Posts: 2458
@hans

Now we're getting somewhere. Nice.
Let's hope this bounty gets done. And we can get a nice editing software on our sustem.

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Re: Video editing software bounty?
Just popping in
Joined:
2006/12/6 21:24
From Barcelona, Spain
Posts: 159
@Hans

Quote:

Hans wrote:
I have created a bounty for the avencoder.library, here. Now it's up to the amigabounty.net committee to decide when to open it.


After the library is released, could it be possible to modify open videotoaster to work with both, avcoder.library and avencoder.library without the need of a Toaster?

It is already a full video editor program with a familiar UI for some, so if it can be modified, we get something usefull that can be improved more.

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Re: Video editing software bounty?
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/2/23 13:49
From Finland, the land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki
Posts: 1047
@Hans
Quote:
where is the avcodec.library source-code kept?

Csaba "Chip" Simon made it. I'm wondering is he part of Amiga community any more ?

Isn't avformat needed to handle containers as well ?! Encoders could be inside avcodec. Also if graphics.library or P96 library could handle YUV420P and other needed colour formats then we wouldn't need swscale library at all.

Btw. Where's the source of the latest libffmpeg port ?

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