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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
Quite a regular
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To be more specific with WinUAE I use NPCap as a bridge to VMWare "vmnet8 driver" it's the only driver that can get a real IP with WinUAE using :

WinUAE--->>> Expansion ---> NetWork-Adapter
RTL8029-PCI --->>> NetWorkMode --->>> VMWareVirtualNetWork8 Ethernet

perfect works with everything speed to the max

Now having VMWare also on Linux I also have the same driver there:
VMWareVirtualNetWork8 Ethernet

It would be enough to exploit that as on WinUAE everything would work.

Now I'm writing it here maybe it can be useful for those who want to try but also so that ZBalaton can see the explanation

In my opinion, more than the driver, something needs to be corrected in qemu in the PCI branch

here the link while using Firefox with AmiCygnix with the relative Firefox plugins activated it seems clear to me why I want to use it.

This is the speed of WinUAE
I guess with the speed of qemu Pegasos -7447 it should be perfect.

((and I'm using "Voodoo3" which is much slower than "PicassoIV" and "UAEGFX" in terms of handling the amiga desktop. ))

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfPYjgacVno

Thank you


Edited by white on 2023/4/29 13:35:07
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
Quite a regular
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HELP

if the PCI is working fine then:

probably with qemu it's something like "br0" -->> vmnet8
instead of "tap0"
But "qemu" is complex and contains a lot of options.

Help

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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This is what I've used. Except for adding slirp

i'm really tired...
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@afxgroup

I don't use WSL2 anymore, but I just recompiled it now I made a video if your problem is:
MESON error
here what i did:

sudo apt-get install git libglib2.0-dev libfdt-dev libpixman-1-dev zlib1g-dev ninja-build meson

$ git clone https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/slirp/libslirp.git

$ cd libslirp

$ meson build

$ sudo ninja -C build install

$cd ..

$ cd qemu

$ mkdir -p bin/debug/native

$ cd bin/debug/native

$ ../../.././configure --enable-slirp --enable-debug

$make -j$(nproc)

$ sudo make install

$ cd ../../..

here in the video you can see the exact steps i used terminal without going into kali:

step by step

https://youtu.be/ReqQuW16WVE


Edited by white on 2023/4/29 17:00:52
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@all

What kind of performance are you getting? I expect graphics would be on the sluggish side, but how does it perform in benchmark test? What would be the closest physical machine in raw performance?

Hans

http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - more of my work
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@Hans
To summ this up, with both QEMU and WinUAE you may have quite decent move of windowses ,opening of drawers, moving mouse, etc. So in basiscs, it's ok.

But , QEMU currently limited to smaller resolutions, while with WinUAE you can have 1920x1080 and more easy.

Also, of course, whole "3D" thing is out. But for 2D is more or less ok.

The only one moment to consider , that you need very fast single core CPU, the more the better. I.e. 1 core 4GHZ will emulate better than 10 cores per 2 ghz.

Also, with QEMU you still have some glitches you didn't have with WinUAE (issues with SFS, network drivers sometimes, etc).

Join us to improve dopus5!
AmigaOS4 on youtube
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@kas1e

Okay, but what about raw CPU power? For example, benchmarks that measure the FLOPS/MIPS/whatever? Or mp3 encoding speed. How does it compare to existing PowerPC hardware in processing power independent of the graphics?

Hans

http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - more of my work
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@Hans

Did test lame using a 10MB wave file as input downloaded from https://file-examples.com/index.php/sa ... iles/sample-wav-download/

lame -V2 test.wav test.mp3

Sam460ex - 0:15
WinUAE 4.10.1 on i7-1265U Win 11 - 1:05
QEMU 8.0 (no TCG) on i7-1265U Win 11 WSL2 Ubuntu 22.04 - 1:14
QEMU 8.0 (with "-accel tcg") on i7-1265U Win 11 WSL2 Ubuntu 22.04 - 0:59

I launch QEMU using the following command
qemu-system-ppc -L pc-bios -M pegasos2 -cpu 7447 -m 1024 \
-bios pegasos2.rom -vga none -device sm501 -serial stdio \
-device ide-hd,drive=hd,bus=ide.0 \
-drive if=none,id=hd,file=AmigaOS4.1FE_Pegasos2.qcow2,format=qcow2 \
-device rtl8139,netdev=network00 -netdev user,id=network00




Benchmark using SysMon QEMU 8.0 on i7-1265U Win 11 WSL2 Ubuntu 22.04

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Benchmark using SysMon on Sam460ex

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I am unable to launch SysMon on WinUAE, I always get a Grim Reaper.


Edited by virgola on 2023/5/1 14:15:19
Edited by virgola on 2023/5/1 16:54:35
Edited by virgola on 2023/5/6 18:47:44
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
Quite a regular
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@virgola

I would like to participate in this test, my hardware MacStudio M1/Max 10 cores/24 cores GPU. Qemu 8.0 under MacOs Ventura 13.3.1

https://ibb.co/yWYjB54 SDL Bench
https://ibb.co/KbhbPQB Sort Bench
https://ibb.co/3CH2h35 RageMem

Another hint the SFS problem has already been solved, add -cpu 7447 to your command line. This will speed up the emulation and you can use the SmartFileSystem under AmigaOs4.1.

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@Maijestro
Quote:
Another hint the SFS problem has already been solved, add -cpu 7447 to your command line. This will speed up the emulation and you can use the SmartFileSystem under AmigaOs4.1.
Wrong, unless you don't care about Copyrights at all.
Hyperion doesn't, and never had, any licence nor permission to include my SFS versions in AmigaOS 4.1 FE and beyond, and even the old AmigaOS 4.0 ones were strictly limited to licensed AmigaOne and classic Amiga hardware (EyeTech AmigaOne SE/XE/µ, A1200/A3000/A4000[T], and the Acube "AmigaOne 500" complete systems), no emulation like WinUAE or QEmu was allowed, neither unlicensed NG systems like Sam440/460 or Pegasos 2.
Of course you can use free SFS versions from me, like the ones on https://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/SFS or http://os4depot.net/?function=showfil ... driver/filesystem/sfs.lha, or newer SFS versions included in A-Eon's Enhancer Software, but not anything illegally sold by Hyperion.

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@joergQuote:
joerg wrote:@Maijestro
Quote:
Another hint the SFS problem has already been solved, add -cpu 7447 to your command line. This will speed up the emulation and you can use the SmartFileSystem under AmigaOs4.1.
Wrong, unless you don't care about Copyrights at all.
Hyperion doesn't, and never had, any licence nor permission to include my SFS versions in AmigaOS 4.1 FE and beyond, and even the old AmigaOS 4.0 ones were strictly limited to licensed AmigaOne and classic Amiga hardware (EyeTech AmigaOne SE/XE/µ, A1200/A3000/A4000[T], and the Acube "AmigaOne 500" complete systems), no emulation like WinUAE or QEmu was allowed, neither unlicensed NG systems like Sam440/460 or Pegasos 2.
Of course you can use free SFS versions from me, like the ones on https://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/SFS or http://os4depot.net/?function=showfil ... driver/filesystem/sfs.lha, or newer SFS versions included in A-Eon's Enhancer Software, but not anything illegally sold by Hyperion.


Since SFS is freely available I see no problem in using it, it is part of AmigaOs4.1 FE and since I also have an Enhancer Software 2.2 license I can use the file system without hesitation. How the SFS got into AmigaOs4.1 doesn't matter to me. If you have problems with Hyperion entertainment that's up to you, I only use what I paid for.

Your problem with Hyperion Enterteinment is none of my business and that's a whole different job.

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@Maijestro

I will never participate in an amiga forum again
for me this "forum" has also closed everything I will do I'll keep it just for me.

But thanks for your work.

I'm sick of not getting any response
to a trivial question

how do i find out what is the name of the amiga computer?
not even a poor answer.

the world is selfish in most people and this is mirrored here as well.

My best wishes to all

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
Just can't stay away
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@Maijestro
Quote:
Since SFS is freely available I see no problem in using it
Only the the old versions on Aminet and os4depot.net are free.

Quote:
it is part of AmigaOs4.1 FE
No, it's not, at least not legally. Hyperion included a pirate copy of SFS (and several other software from me like diskboot, CDFS, etc.) despite explicit prohibition to continue using it in AmigaOS 4.1 FE and beyond.

Quote:
and since I also have an Enhancer Software 2.2 license I can use the file system without hesitation.
With an Enhancer Software Licence you, and anyone else who has it, can of course use the newest SFS versions from me. Without any limits/restrictions, no matter if it's used on real NG hardware or any emulation like WinUAE or QEmu, the Enhancer Software versions of SFS don't include any such usage limits.
But the AmigaOS 4.0/4.1<FE versions of SFS do. Someone who doesn't have an Enhancer Software licence can only use the old Aminet.net/os4depot.net versions of SFS, but not Hyperion's pirate copies.

Quote:
I only use what I paid for.
In case of AmigaOS 4.1 FE and later, as well as AmigaOS 3.1.x/3.2.x m68k, you didn't pay any of the AmigaOS developers, Ben took all the money and didn't pay any of the AmigaOS developers...

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@joerg

As already mentioned, I'm not interested in their disputes with Hyperion Entertainment and who stole what from whom. I'm just an AmigaOs4.1 user who paid for it even if it wasn't connected to real hardware.

I'm not a fan of piracy and already own 3 licenses (AmigaOs4.1 Classic/Sam460/Pegasos2) and Enhancer 2.2, plus Emotion Player, I'm happy to pay for software as you can see who can afford a MacStudio has one too for software money over

Maybe they could also alert other users not to use SFS on hardware like Pegasos2/Sam460/Amiga4000/AmigaOne, AmigaOneX500/1000/5000 etc. because it is their development and it got illegally on the respective version of AmigaOs4.1. Or better yet, sue them all.

Just because I'm using an emulation that's already faster than real hardware doesn't mean I'm not paying for software!

Another short feedback your SmartFileSystem 1.293 works very well, I didn't know that you are the developer of it. Umm you're talking about old, your version on the enhancer pack isn't much newer 2015 ?

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@Maijestro
Quote:
Another short feedback your SmartFileSystem 1.293 works very well, I didn't know that you are the developer of it. Umm you're talking about old, your version on the enhancer pack isn't much newer 2015 ?
I'm not the developer of SFS, it was implemented about 30 years ago by John Hendrikx with some help from Marcel Offermans.
Although I did help with some improvements in the AmigaOS 3.x/m68k versions, and I ported it to AmigaOS 4.x/PPC, my part in it is very small compared to John's original work.
The main difference between the AmigaOS 4.x SFS versions and the Enhancer Software versions isn't the very small bug fixes and speed optimisations I did, but that A-Eon has a licence from me to include it in the Enhancer Software, while Hyperion doesn't have a licence to include it in AmigaOS 4.1 distributions.

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@joergQuote:
joerg wrote:@Maijestro
Quote:
Another short feedback your SmartFileSystem 1.293 works very well, I didn't know that you are the developer of it. Umm you're talking about old, your version on the enhancer pack isn't much newer 2015 ?
I'm not the developer of SFS, it was implemented about 30 years ago by John Hendrikx with some help from Marcel Offermans.
Although I did help with some improvements in the AmigaOS 3.x/m68k versions, and I ported it to AmigaOS 4.x/PPC, my part in it is very small compared to John's original work.
The main difference between the AmigaOS 4.x SFS versions and the Enhancer Software versions isn't the very small bug fixes and speed optimisations I did, but that A-Eon has a licence from me to include it in the Enhancer Software, while Hyperion doesn't have a licence to include it in AmigaOS 4.1 distributions.


Thank you for the detailed explanation. I've only been using AmigaOs4.1 for 6 months. And I only know a little background.

I was told that many AmigaOs4.1 developers gather here in the forum, apparently it was wrong to visit this forum. It's hateful people who have zero tolerance for people using AmigaOs4.1 on no real hardware.

Too bad I thought we Amiga users might be able to make a difference.

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@whiteQuote:
white wrote:@Maijestro

I will never participate in an amiga forum again
for me this "forum" has also closed everything I will do I'll keep it just for me.

But thanks for your work.

I'm sick of not getting any response
to a trivial question

how do i find out what is the name of the amiga computer?
not even a poor answer.

the world is selfish in most people and this is mirrored here as well.

My best wishes to all


I agree with you this time and only this time My experience is that here in the forum there is zero tolerance for users without real hardware.

It seems that people don't like to see that an emulation is already faster than the real hardware. WinUae with AmigaOs 4.1 classic was never a competition against NG Amigas.

I was recommended this forum because there are many AmigaOs4.1 developers here and I thought I could get help here, but it seems not.

Actually we should keep Amiga/AmigaOs4.1 users together, whatever this software is used on, but it is unfortunately so my friend.

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@white

Quote:

I'm sick of not getting any response
to a trivial question

how do i find out what is the name of the amiga computer?
not even a poor answer.

Sometimes nobody knows the answer, or in my case I'm not sure exactly what you're asking (couldn't find the original context).

@Maijestro

Quote:
My experience is that here in the forum there is zero tolerance for users without real hardware.

Sorry to hear that. Maybe people who have been here a long time forget how much they know that newcomers don't.

When it comes to Joerg, I don't know the details (none of our business, anyway), but his relationship with Hyperion ended badly. It's not surprising that he's unhappy about license violations of software he wrote. He's not the only disgruntled developer, and you'll find plenty of people in the Amiga world who are disappointed that the Amiga didn't become a major OS in the world.

I personally welcome emulation users. I'd love to know how many people are using emulation, whether it's a good experience, and what would make it better.

Hans

P.S., If needed, we could always create an emulation specific forum or subforum.

http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - more of my work
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@virgola

Quote:
Did test lame using a 10MB wave file as input

wget https://file-examples.com/storage/fe64 ... file_example_WAV_10MG.wav -O test.wav

lame -V2 test.wav test.mp3

Sam460ex 0:15
WinUAE 4.10.1 on i7-1265U Win 11 1:05
QEMU 8.0 on i7-1265U Win 11 WSL2 Ubuntu 22.04 1:14

Thanks. So, based on mp3 encoding it's almost 5x slower than a Sam460ex. Is this with Qemu in interpretive mode? Or is this with JIT? Either way, there's a huge room for improvement...

Hans

http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - more of my work
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@all

This discussion has made me curious about how many users we have running AmigaOS 4.x via emulation. So, I've created a short survey.

Click here for the survey.

Please share far and wide so we can get the best picture possible.

Hans

http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - more of my work
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