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Assign command
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


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I have the following Assign in my user-startup:-
Quote:
;BEGIN TurboCalc
Assign TurboCalc: Work2:TurboCalc/TurboCalc
;END TurboCalc

When I save a file in turbocalc with an icon, it is saved with the default tool "turbocalc". If I double-click one of these files I just get "unable to open your tool 'turbocalc'
I have def_tcd set up in prefs/sys with the full path of turbocalc.
If I use the conext menu to open a disk, and select volumes the turbocalc asign is show (in blue below the physical volumes).
If I save from turbocalc with out an icon, I get the def icon displayed, and I can double-click the file to load it in turbocalc.

The files with the turbocalc assign used to load into turbocalc automatically, but noe they don't.

Any pointers?

Peter Swallow

Eyetech A1XE-G3 800Mhz OS4.1
Towered A1200 OS3.9
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Re: Assign command
Supreme Council
Supreme Council


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@Swoop

Provided TurboCalc actually uses the systems def_tcd.info default icon, try putting TurboCalc:TurboCalc in the default tool.

Could it be possible you have entered the full path wrongly?

In any case, it's pointless to have the assign if you're not going to use it :)

I would suggest using Snoopy when you save a TurboCalc file to see if the def_tcd.info is actually being used...

Simon

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Re: Assign command
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


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@Rigo

Quote:
Provided TurboCalc actually uses the systems def_tcd.info default icon, try putting TurboCalc:TurboCalc in the default tool.

Could it be possible you have entered the full path wrongly?

In any case, it's pointless to have the assign if you're not going to use it :)

I would suggest using Snoopy when you save a TurboCalc file to see if the def_tcd.info is actually being used...

Simon
Turbocalc itself applies the icon, and does not use the def-icon, and hence not the full path of turbocalc.
If I tell turbocalc to save without an icon, then the def-icon is used.

The assign in user-startup is there historically, to enable turbocalc files that have a default tool of turbocalc to launch, and be loaded into, turbocalc. I cannot find where turbocalc stores it's default icon, so I can't change that.

The thing is, this used to work fine and now doesn't, and I know some changes have been made to the assign commands, but I don't know what.
I would like to find out if I can solve this by changing the assign in post#1, rather than delete all the icon files from the best part of 10 years spreadsheets

Peter Swallow

Eyetech A1XE-G3 800Mhz OS4.1
Towered A1200 OS3.9
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Re: Assign command
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


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@Swoop

Add

Path Turbocalc: ADD

to user-startup after the assign command.

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Re: Assign command
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


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@salass00

Quote:
Add

Path Turbocalc: ADD

to user-startup after the assign command.
As in:-

;BEGIN TurboCalc
Assign TurboCalc: ADD Work2:TurboCalc/TurboCalc
;END TurboCalc

or

;BEGIN TurboCalc
Assign TurboCalc: Work2:TurboCalc/TurboCalc ADD
;END TurboCalc

Peter Swallow

Eyetech A1XE-G3 800Mhz OS4.1
Towered A1200 OS3.9
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Re: Assign command
Home away from home
Home away from home


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@Swoop

As in:-

;BEGIN TurboCalc
Assign TurboCalc: Work2:TurboCalc/TurboCalc
Path TurboCalc: ADD
;END TurboCalc

People are dying.
Entire ecosystems are collapsing.
We are in the beginning of a mass extinction.
And all you can talk about is money and fairytales of eternal economic growth.
How dare you!
– Greta Thunberg
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Re: Assign command
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


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@Swoop

Your problem here is the underlying design & age of turbocalc, it was originally written in the age of floppies, the spreadsheets are designed to be saved in the same dir as turbocalc. if you ran out of space you copied the turbocalc floppy and deleted the spreadsheets and started again. which is fine if you have a single floppy system.

The assign is a hack so that turbocalc when installed on a harddrive can find its non-spreadsheet files that were on the "turbocalc" floppy.

The first thing you need to do is upgrae to turbocalc 5 which should be easy enough, there are copies around the net and as digita no longer give a monkeys about amiga stuff you might as well grab a copy.

Next thing to do is change the way you use turbocalc, stick it in amidock and use the "open" menu instead of hunting through years worth of spreadsheet icons. Don't forget about the "autoopen" drawer if you use the same spreadsheet most of the time.

Btw. the default icon is stored internally so you cannot easily edit it unless you really know what your doing

Amiga user since 1985
AOS4, A-EON, IBrowse & Alinea Betatester

Ps. I hate the new amigans website. <shudder>
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Re: Assign command
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


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@Raziel


Quote:
;BEGIN TurboCalc
Assign TurboCalc: Work2:TurboCalc/TurboCalc
Path TurboCalc: ADD
;END TurboCalc

That gives me a "Turbocalc:object is not of the required type" on re-boot, before workbench is loaded.

Peter Swallow

Eyetech A1XE-G3 800Mhz OS4.1
Towered A1200 OS3.9
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Re: Assign command
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


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@Swoop

Your assign is wrong

try:

;BEGIN TurboCalc
Assign TurboCalc: Work2:TurboCalc
Path TurboCalc: ADD
;END TurboCalc

You are assigning to the program not it's location (unless you do actually have a tubocalc drawer within a turbocalc drawer).

Amiga user since 1985
AOS4, A-EON, IBrowse & Alinea Betatester

Ps. I hate the new amigans website. <shudder>
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Re: Assign command
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


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@Severin

Quote:
Your assign is wrong

try:

;BEGIN TurboCalc
Assign TurboCalc: Work2:TurboCalc
Path TurboCalc: ADD
;END TurboCalc

You are assigning to the program not it's location (unless you do actually have a tubocalc drawer within a turbocalc drawer).
OK, that worked, thanks.

I can't help but think that this is a backward step in AmigaDOS though.

Previously (3.1, 3.5, 3.9, etc) the following worked:-
Assign TurboCalc: Work2:TurboCal/Turbocalc

I assume the colon after the first Turbocalc sets this up as a device as far as AmigaDOS is concerned. As you say this is actually assigning a program to Turbocalc: (a pseudo device). Now, we have to make the assign to a drawer, and then add that drawer to the search path. Two steps instead of one, and also a break in compatibility.

My user-startup, because of transfering/upgrading from my A1200, is 152 lines long, assuming five lines (approx) to an assign, that is a lot of assigns to change. From a DOS point of view, I can see the reasoning behind not assigning a program to a (psuedo) device, but wouldn't it just be easier to automatically add the assign to the search path automatically. I am not that up on using AmigaDOS, but I can't see where you would need to make an assign that isn't added to the path, as that is surely the point of the assign.

Peter Swallow

Eyetech A1XE-G3 800Mhz OS4.1
Towered A1200 OS3.9
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Re: Assign command
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


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@Severin

Quote:
Your problem here is the underlying design & age of turbocalc, it was originally written in the age of floppies, the spreadsheets are designed to be saved in the same dir as turbocalc. if you ran out of space you copied the turbocalc floppy and deleted the spreadsheets and started again. which is fine if you have a single floppy system.

The assign is a hack so that turbocalc when installed on a harddrive can find its non-spreadsheet files that were on the "turbocalc" floppy.
Assign is nothing to do with floppies, although it can be used to launch an application by double-clicking on a project file that resides on a floppy. The assign is a system mechanism, by which I can double click any project file at any location, and it will open that file in it's mother application.
This is the same for Wordworth, Finalwriter, Pagestream, and any other application that I use on my Amiga. It means convenience, it means, I don't get annoying system requester's asking me to select which program to associate this type of file with (windows). The assign function forms this association automatically on a file by file basis and not on a file type basis. It is one of the reasons IMHO that AmigaOS is easier to use than windows.

Peter Swallow

Eyetech A1XE-G3 800Mhz OS4.1
Towered A1200 OS3.9
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Re: Assign command
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


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@Swoop

Assign IS all to do with floppies and the limited storage space they have. it was originally designed to allow you to have data files spread over many floppies without having the problems caused by identical floppy names. and very useful it was with KS 1 & 2.

Many programmers used assigns to easily add harddrive support to programs that were originally designed to run from floppies. eg. protext had 3 disks so installing all three to the same place and assigning the floppy names to that place made it work. Assigns are to tell programs where their files are, the fact that you think "The assign is a system mechanism, by which I can double click any project file at any location, and it will open that file in it's mother application." has nothing to do with it. most project icons don't have an assigned path in them by default. Most programs use the internal PROGDIR: assign. The 'System Mechanism' that allows you to do that is the 'Default Tool' option itself.

/me trundles off the edge of sanity and gets his meds...

Amiga user since 1985
AOS4, A-EON, IBrowse & Alinea Betatester

Ps. I hate the new amigans website. <shudder>
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Re: Assign command
Just popping in
Just popping in


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@Swoop

Quote:

I can't help but think that this is a backward step in AmigaDOS though.

Previously (3.1, 3.5, 3.9, etc) the following worked:-
Assign TurboCalc: Work2:TurboCal/Turbocalc

Assignments pointing to files are still working in OS4.
The error message comes from the Path command which
does not allow to add files to the path list
(which would not make sense).

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Re: Assign command
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


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@TetiSoft

Quote:
Assignments pointing to files are still working in OS4. The error message comes from the Path command which
does not allow to add files to the path list
(which would not make sense).


Why do I need to use the path command?
Why does the assign command not work without it?
Why did my previos assign not work?
Why did I get an error message when double-clicking on a project icon?

The only way to get the double-clicking to work, with the same result as previous OS versions, was to add a path command, and remove the file from the end of the assign.
If an assign is (under OS4) not automatically added to the path, how is that an improvement?
The whole point of an assign is that AmigaDOS is aware of the assignment.
Regardless, of whether the assign command was developed for floppies, its main use is by programs adding an assign to user-startup when they are installed, to make the OS aware of where they are located. If that now doesn't work, without using a second (path) command it seems a backward step IMO.
I am not trying to be a pain. I am just trying to understand why such a change has been made. If it hasn't been changed, what is the correct syntax of the assign command, that will correct my error messsage without requiring the use of the path command.

Peter Swallow

Eyetech A1XE-G3 800Mhz OS4.1
Towered A1200 OS3.9
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Re: Assign command
Just popping in
Just popping in


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@Swoop

I understand your confusion.
I, too, am confused.

I could be wrong, but as I understand it, the "Assign"
command and the "path" command are different in purpose.

"Assign" allows you to assign a device name (ending in a colon) to a directory. Great for getting organized, great
for naming a point so programs can find it ("SDK:"), also great for copying the contents of a floppy onto a HD, as mentioned before.
But as far as I know, it has nothing to do with the search path for commands, unless your icon or command line is calling with the included device name and path. ("SDK:include_h/amiga_compiler.h")

I just read the "AmigaDos" book.. It seems to agree.
"Assign" is cool, and allows multiple assigns and tests and such, but it does not appear to affect the path.

If I'm wrong, please teach me more. I'm always ready to learn.

LyleHaze

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Re: Assign command
Just popping in
Just popping in


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@Swoop

Quote:

Why do I need to use the path command?

Your icon has "TurboCalc" as default tool. Without path.
Then Workbench will search TurboCalc in the current
directory (where the project file is located) first
and fall back to the search path which is defined by
the Path commands in Startup-Sequence and User-Startup.

When it worked before, either your project file was
located in the same directory as TurboCalc, or your
S-S and U-S defined a search path that included the
directory which contained TurboCalc, or your icons
contained the full path to TurboCalc.

Quote:

Why does the assign command not work without it?


The Assign command is something completely different
than the Path command.

Quote:

Why did my previos assign not work?

It worked. It just did not have any effect on the search path...

Quote:

Why did I get an error message when double-clicking on a project icon?

Because Workbench could not find TurboCalc in the current
directory or in the search path.

Quote:

The only way to get the double-clicking to work, with the
same result as previous OS versions, was to add a path
command, and remove the file from the end of the assign.

Yes. Because it has nothing to do with the Assign command.

Quote:

If an assign is (under OS4) not automatically added to the
path, how is that an improvement?

No need to ask for an improvement. It works as before.

Quote:

The whole point of an assign is that AmigaDOS is aware of
the assignment. Regardless, of whether the assign command
was developed for floppies, its main use is by programs
adding an assign to user-startup when they are installed,
to make the OS aware of where they are located.

Right. Partly. Assigns are not only used for locating
programs but also for locating data. There e.g. exist
FONTS: LOCALE: PRINTERS: CLASSES: HELP: LIBS:

Quote:

If that now doesn't work, without using a second (path)
command it seems a backward step IMO.

There was nothing changed. Ergo no step backward happened.
Even OS3 was smart enough to NOT waste time by searching
a program in FONTS: or LOCALE: ...

Quote:

I am not trying to be a pain. I am just trying to
understand why such a change has been made.

No change happened.

Quote:

If it hasn't been changed, what is the correct syntax
of the assign command, that will correct my error messsage
without requiring the use of the path command.

There exists no possibility to use the Assign command
to change the search path for programs. The Path command
is used to specify the search path. Ok, an indirect possibility
exists, by modifying assigns which are part of the search path.

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Re: Assign command
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


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@Swoop

Quote:
If an assign is (under OS4) not automatically added to the path, how is that an improvement?
The whole point of an assign is that AmigaDOS is aware of the assignment.


I think you are mixing things, the ASSIGN command never was about adding search paths to the system (obviously it was the PATH command that was designed for that).
AmigaDOS is fully aware of you assign, even under AOS4, just type in a shell :
Multiview Short:MUI.guide

this should not work
ASSIGN ShortSys:MUI/Docs/English

nothing happens, now retype
Multiview Short:MUI.guide

now this should work.

In fact what you did is assigning to Sys:MUI/Docs/English the logical name Short:
You can see that as virtual drives or subst under Windows. This is also a way to address by the same absolute path something that may be anywhere without knowing the exact position (for example my virtual TurboCalc: assign points to DH1:Bureautic/TurboCalc5 on my setup, but I know that if I type TurboCalc: I would go to that place witout the need to remember the exact place).

Back to a quiet home... At last
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Re: Assign command
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


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@TetiSoft

Hi Detlef, thanks for the extensive reply.
I do have one query however.

Quote:
When it worked before, either your project file was located in the same directory as TurboCalc, or your
S-S and U-S defined a search path that included the directory which contained TurboCalc, or your icons contained the full path to TurboCalc.
1. Project file is in a seperate directory
2. User-startup = Assign TurboCalc: Work2:TurboCalc/TurboCalc
3. The icon does not contain the full path.

Only item 2 is a possible reason for the assign to work, and it doesn't, without the addition of 'path turbocalc ADD'.
This used to work on my A1200, in fact I copied my A1200 user-startup when I moved over to OS4.
I think I need to boot up the A1200 and start looking at this from there.
Anyway, thanks for your help, I'll have a play and come back to you.

Peter Swallow

Eyetech A1XE-G3 800Mhz OS4.1
Towered A1200 OS3.9
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Re: Assign command
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


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@Swoop

Quote:

2. Assign TurboCalc: Work2:TurboCalc/TurboCalc


With this assign (assign pointing to the exe file itself) it would probably work if you typed TurboCalc: (note the colon character) into the default tool field. Then you wouldn't need the path command but you would have to edit the default tool field on all your files.

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Re: Assign command
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk


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@Swoop

The assign command creates something like a logical alias. The alias name is called TurboCalc: (with colon !). If you want to refer to the alias you have to use the full name TurboCalc: (with colon).

So you can create an alias for a directory

assign TurboCalc: Work2:TurboCalc

Now you can refer to the directory as TurboCalc: and to the program as TurboCalc:TurboCalc.

Or you can create an alias for a file

assign TurboCalc: Work2:TurboCalc/TurboCalc

Now you can refer to the file as TurboCalc: (with colon). You cannot refer to it as TurboCalc (without colon).

This means, if you want to point your project icons to the assign, the project icons have to have TurboCalc: (with colon !) as default tool.

If you want to refer to TurboCalc without colon as default tool, then assign is not the tool to use. In this case you should add the directory where TurboCalc is in to the system path and remove the assign alltogether.

user-startup:

path add Work2:TurboCalc

Then you can use "TurboCalc" without colon and without absolute path as default tool.

IMHO assigns to files are something strange and shouldn't be used.

Bye,
Thomas

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