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Software News : Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
Posted by Troels on 2007/2/15 8:30:00 (2449 reads) News by the same author
Software News

Everything has its price and a good web browser for AmigaOS4 is EUR 3100 (approx. $4000 USD).
After many emails with Marcin the developer of Sputnik yet another web browser bounty has been setup.

See www.amigabounty.net for complete details.

"But we already have the Amizilla effort".. Yes we do, I even contributed a bit myself but have come to the conclusion that nothing will come of this in the near future as it is a giant project.

The Sputnik Bounty is different because it is an active project developed for and is already showed working on MorphOS. It's simpler to port Sputnik from MorphOS to AmigaOS4, than porting Firefox from Linux to AmigaOS4.

+We have hardware ready for Marcin now.
+Porting starts when bounty is reached.
+Fewer dependences.
+Also available for Morphos = broader user base
+We already have a man to do the port (namely the author of Sputnik, Marcin).
+The browser (early version) have already been showed working on MorphOS, an Amiga inspired OS.
+We have got hardware ready for Marcin as soon as the bounty reaches the needed amount.
+Lighter web browser, well suited for the Amiga.
+Freeware when the bounty has been paid.
+Same updates as the MOS version.

-Less known browser, but whats in a name?
-Price (although it IS cheap)

Lets face it, Sputnik is not a browser that will get much name recognition outside Amiga circles. It is based on the widely known KHTML engine (also used by Nokia and Apple) and keeping the Amiga traditions, being a very light web browser compared to Firefox. It will feature most if not all the modern stuff we miss in AWeb or IBrowse, read more on www.amigabounty.net.


Financial.
The price of EUR 3100 seems high but you are not alone paying it! This is a COMMUNITY EFFORT and I would expect EVERY OS4 USER who wants a modern web browser to contribute. Despite the current lack of hardware, I would even encourage those wanting to use OS4 at some point to contribute to this bounty. Take the time, register with PayPal and donate. If you can't use PayPal please email me and we will work something out.

Theory.
There's been talks about 1500 AmigaOne's sold and even if some are not working or just not used anymore there should still be at least 700-1000 active OS4 users.

Fact.
If people wants the Amiga to stay alive, we all need to start put our money where our mouth is. I expect in a worst case scenario max. 50% wants to contribute, but that is a minimum of 350 donations. Am I too optimistic, I hope not.

Donations.
I know not everybody can donate the same but I ask ALL of you to please donate min. EUR 10($13) if you can. The more the better.

If your financial situation (or your gf/wife) doesn't allow you to donate that much every other donation is also very welcome.

Please go straight to www.amigabounty.net read more about the bounty and make your donation now.

Thanks for the donations already made.


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Author Thread
Skov
Published: 2007/2/15 10:06  Updated: 2007/2/15 10:06
Just popping in
Joined: 12/01/2006
From: Odense, Denmark
Comments: 221
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
Well, I just donated a small amount. We need a good browser and this could certainly be a solution. Hopefully, Ibrowse and Aweb will succeed as well!

Anyway, if worst comes to worst, the donated amount will go to another useful project, so that seems fine by me...

Good work, Troels!
Troels
Published: 2007/2/15 11:03  Updated: 2007/2/15 11:03
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 11/30/2006
From:
Comments: 449
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
Thanks
Atheist
Published: 2007/2/15 12:59  Updated: 2007/2/15 12:59
Quite a regular
Joined: 11/28/2006
From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Comments: 759
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
I don't understand. Are we going to drown in a glut of browsers?

What is sputnik all about compared to Aweb, Ibrowse, and Amizilla?

I personally think that our three Amiga browsers (I'm including Voyager) should be what is supported.

If Mozilla.org got 2 or 3 AmigaOnes, they could probably port it in a month, seems like a waste of time doing Amizilla.
Helge
Published: 2007/2/15 14:54  Updated: 2007/2/15 14:54
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 12/15/2006
From:
Comments: 262
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
Quote:
I don't understand. Are we going to drown in a glut of browsers?


I think we are far from that!

Quote:
What is sputnik all about compared to Aweb, Ibrowse, and Amizilla?


Compared to Aweb and Ibrowse, Sputnik has CSS capability. A very basic feature that is necessary to display most newer sites properly. What browser are you using to browse non Amiga sites?
Compared to Amizilla, Sputnik is more within reach. Personally I don't think that Amizilla will ever be delivered. Let's get realistic, there are not enough peoples working on it! Only one when I got that right! I think it is much more difficult to port Firefox than Sputnik!

Quote:
I personally think that our three Amiga browsers (I'm including Voyager) should be what is supported.


I agree. Ibrowse and Aweb should be supported. But I am looking forward to a more modern webbrowser. You can scrap Voyager from that list. It's a dead, but good, browser.

Quote:
If Mozilla.org got 2 or 3 AmigaOnes, they could probably port it in a month, seems like a waste of time doing Amizilla.


The only problem is that they won't do it. Don't you think that the peoples behind Amizilla have already considered this option?
R-TEAM
Published: 2007/2/15 15:53  Updated: 2007/2/15 15:53
Just popping in
Joined: 12/02/2006
From: Germany
Comments: 92
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
Hi,

better spend the money to the IBrowse team !
Then we have IB3.0 faster and have the same,but
from a valid team and not a progger that dont any
realy know is the full version coming or not...
And it is coming for OS4 too .. haved in the past
the same story - spend for a free available version
[with the right to self port to OS4 the sources] and
suddenly ONLY a MOS version is magical transformed ...

Not my view of "Integrity" !

R-TEAM
Jurassicc
Published: 2007/2/15 16:21  Updated: 2007/2/15 16:21
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 11/27/2006
From: Somerset, UK
Comments: 356
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
@Troels.

Just as an alternative how about a MOSEMU bounty. The end result would be the same.
tsifnori
Published: 2007/2/15 16:36  Updated: 2007/2/15 17:46
Just popping in
Joined: 12/10/2006
From:
Comments: 5
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
ssolie: Play nice. Atheist baiting is not allowed here.
ssolie
Published: 2007/2/15 17:43  Updated: 2007/2/15 17:43
Amigans Defender
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: Canada
Comments: 986
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
@Troels
Please explain this discrepancy:
From the web site:
Quote:
WebKit and Sputnik part is closed source.


From the news item:
Quote:
Freeware when the bounty has been paid


I would also like to see some assurances that the rules won't suddenly change like they did on the MorphOS version. If that isn't possible it should be made crystal clear the rules can change at any time without notice so the people who donate know exactly what they are getting into.
ssolie
Published: 2007/2/15 17:55  Updated: 2007/2/15 17:55
Amigans Defender
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: Canada
Comments: 986
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
@Atheist
Sputnik does have a good chance of becoming a decent browser. If it can run on MorphOS systems and Amiga computers all the better. AWeb evolution is rather limited due to lack of volunteers. IBrowse has had delay problems and from the interview in TAM (couple of issues back) I didn't get a good feeling about its future. Firefox/etc. have similar problems to AWeb--lack of capable bodies.

It may seem like spreading resources thin but I don't see much evidence that there are any resources being spread. Ideally, I would like to see those still interested in developing web browser technology for AmigaOS and MorphOS work together but that seems to be impossible.
virgola
Published: 2007/2/15 23:17  Updated: 2007/2/15 23:17
Just popping in
Joined: 02/01/2007
From: Bergamo, Italy
Comments: 99
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
I know the history of Sputnik, but I need a decent browser with my next amiga os4 hardware.

I gave my contribution and... well.. finger crossed!
Troels
Published: 2007/2/15 23:39  Updated: 2007/2/15 23:42
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 11/30/2006
From:
Comments: 449
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
@ssolie

When the bounty reaches Eur 3100 and Marcin gets paid, Sputnik for OS4 becomes freeware.
Freeware in the sense that it is a free download, but some parts is still copyrighted by Marcin.
Snuffy
Published: 2007/2/15 23:45  Updated: 2007/2/15 23:45
Just can't stay away
Joined: 12/06/2006
From: Michigan
Comments: 1027
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
Hi Troels,

Donations.
...I ask ALL of you to please donate min. EUR 10($13) if you can. The more the better.

Count me in for 15 Euros!
Troels
Published: 2007/2/16 1:33  Updated: 2007/2/16 1:34
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 11/30/2006
From:
Comments: 449
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
@Snuffy

Cool, thanks.
Remember to spread the word.
klesterjr
Published: 2007/2/16 4:36  Updated: 2007/2/16 4:36
Illusionist
Joined: 11/29/2006
From:
Comments: 413
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
You guys have an overblown idea of what Sputnik is -- have you ever used it?

It's very buggy and has almost none of the basics needed for general web browsing -- and it took 1.5 years just to get this far (it's over a year past the bounty deadline).

Don't forget -- Marcik doesn't like OS4 users -- he set the bar high so that you'd fail -- he's making you crawl. He also has a history of changing the rules in the middle of the game.

This is like paying someone to be your friend -- have a little pride.
R-TEAM
Published: 2007/2/16 5:58  Updated: 2007/2/16 5:58
Just popping in
Joined: 12/02/2006
From: Germany
Comments: 92
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
Hi,

cant AGREE MORE with klesterjr !!
I see a few AmigaOS user have left illusions from
Peace and Freedom ....
You musst learn then the Hard Way .....

R-TEAM
rwo
Published: 2007/2/16 9:37  Updated: 2007/2/16 9:37
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 12/01/2006
From: Skærbæk. Denmark
Comments: 266
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
@klesterjr

Marcik have had a bad expercian with some polish os4 users.. but isent it our change to show him that not all OS4 user hate/dislike MOS users?

I dont have a grudts so I have choosent to suport the bounty attempt.

RWO
Atheist
Published: 2007/2/16 11:22  Updated: 2007/2/16 11:22
Quite a regular
Joined: 11/28/2006
From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Comments: 759
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
Hi all,

Thanks for replies.

I am ready to be persuaded either way, however, what ssolie, klesterjr and R-TEAM have to say I hold in high regard, and I'll be purchasing my own copy of IBrowse, I've decided.


Can't wait for the PPC (Altivec enhanced) 3.0 version.
jahc
Published: 2007/2/16 11:33  Updated: 2007/2/16 11:38
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 11/22/2006
From:
Comments: 414
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
@Athiest
in IBrowse/AWeb/Voyager, half the internet looks wrong or is not functional because our browsers dont support all the latest standards. amigaworld.net and amigans.net look fine, because the maintainers spent weeks removing all the CSS code from the sites engines. If you want to be able to view the web properly, then something like Firefox or Sputnik is something we'll need. Sputnik is probably the closest solution to the problem right now.

@klesterjr
Stability can be fixed, features can be added. The bulk of the hard work has been done.

EDIT:
Quote:
Don't forget -- Marcik doesn't like OS4 users -- he set the bar high so that you'd fail -- he's making you crawl. He also has a history of changing the rules in the middle of the game.

This is like paying someone to be your friend -- have a little pride.

Well, politics wont matter when a user buys an Amiga 1 year from now and is able to download a good browser that displays the web properly. :)
klesterjr
Published: 2007/2/16 12:10  Updated: 2007/2/16 12:10
Illusionist
Joined: 11/29/2006
From:
Comments: 413
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
Quote:
@jahc
Well, politics wont matter when a user buys an Amiga 1 year from now and is able to download a good browser that displays the web properly. :)


Or a year from now when only $3000 is raised and he scatters the donations to other projects -- or decides that Sputnik STILL won't be free for OS4 users -- or decides to change something else about the ground rules.

Don't forget that a good portion of those MOS donations were actually from OS4 users who were told that the source would be released (I know someone who donated $200 alone for that reason!).

In the end, what any of us "thinks" doesn't matter -- it's his right to do whatever he wants with his code and it's also his right to dislike anyone he chooses.

Sputnik could turn out to be great -- I just have my doubts.

Besides -- I'm not an OS4 user (and probably never will be), so it's not my place to say anyway.
Troels
Published: 2007/2/16 16:45  Updated: 2007/2/16 16:45
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 11/30/2006
From:
Comments: 449
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
@Klesterjr

People are not donating towards what Sputnik is _right now_, they are donating because of what KHTML is capable of and what Sputnik will be if Marcin keeps word (which I'm sure he will).

I doubt Marcin dislikes all OS4 users and if you have a problem with Marcin I suggest you take it elsewhere (private).
Chip
Published: 2007/2/16 16:46  Updated: 2007/2/16 16:46
Just popping in
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: Budapest / Hungary
Comments: 97
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
@rwo:

"Marcik have had a bad expercian with some polish os4 users.. but isent it our change to show him that not all OS4 user hate/dislike MOS users?"

Trust is such a funny thing, that you cannot buy it for money... IMHO...
klesterjr
Published: 2007/2/16 17:12  Updated: 2007/2/16 17:13
Illusionist
Joined: 11/29/2006
From:
Comments: 413
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
Quote:
... if you have a problem with Marcin I suggest you take it elsewhere (private).


I have no problem with Marcin (Marcik?).

Like I said, it's his right to do whatever he likes with his code and it's his right to dislike OS4 users (have you read his interview in Total Amiga Magazine?).

I just think this "bounty" idea is extremely ill advised and was listing the reasons why.
ssolie
Published: 2007/2/16 17:46  Updated: 2007/2/16 17:46
Amigans Defender
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: Canada
Comments: 986
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
@klesterjr
Quote:
I just think this "bounty" idea is extremely ill advised and was listing the reasons why.

And I thank you for your honest opinion on this. Especially considering you are a MorphOS end user (not programmer) your point of view would be the most raw and honest.

I would feel *a lot* better if the sources were opened up to a team of people with an experienced software team leader at the helm. From the TAM article it seems this is his first big software project and a web browser could easily overwhelm the most competent coder trying to do it alone. Both the MorphOS and the AmigaOS communities need a modern browser and we need one now and we have many teams working towards that goal. If only those teams (AWeb, IBrowse, Sputnik, etc.) could cooperate in some way. Alas, I think keeping the sources closed will severely hurt the Sputnik project with delay and quality issues to follow.
Elwood
Published: 2007/2/16 19:17  Updated: 2007/2/16 19:17
Just can't stay away
Joined: 12/09/2006
From: Lyon, France
Comments: 1337
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
At this point, it would be nice to have some information about IB 3.0...
Snuffy
Published: 2007/2/17 22:25  Updated: 2007/2/17 22:25
Just can't stay away
Joined: 12/06/2006
From: Michigan
Comments: 1027
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
I just think this "bounty" idea is extremely ill advised and was listing the reasons why.

Damn are you negative! I shouldn't have bought the A1-XE in 2002, according to your logic. All the Amiga browsers suck. Please send money; cheap criticism is exactly what it is!
klesterjr
Published: 2007/2/18 1:00  Updated: 2007/2/18 1:00
Illusionist
Joined: 11/29/2006
From:
Comments: 413
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
Quote:
Damn are you negative!


ToAks
Published: 2007/2/18 11:21  Updated: 2007/2/18 11:21
Just popping in
Joined: 12/27/2006
From:
Comments: 108
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
Awfull lot of money for a product that is not even useable , i will wait till i see the morphos version running atleast as stable as IB 2.4 does..until then bah!.

ps:if this (sputnik) had been a plugin which we could have used in IB or aweb then this would be a diffrent story!.
Troels
Published: 2007/2/18 12:35  Updated: 2007/2/18 12:35
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 11/30/2006
From:
Comments: 449
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
@ToAks

Fair enough. But please remember to donate when usability/stability has improved, ok?

The plugin idea is interesting but I guess that Marcin is only interested in his own browser project, just like Smithy f.ex.

"as soon as usable Sputnik is out there'll be also webcore.mcc which will allow anyone to build browser on top of it." Whether you could create a plugin from that I have no idea.
Antique
Published: 2007/2/18 14:50  Updated: 2007/2/18 14:50
Home away from home
Joined: 11/30/2006
From: Norway
Comments: 2485
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
@Troels

One third allready and almost/just one month. Thats good

I will contribute when i get some money...
Troels
Published: 2007/2/18 20:20  Updated: 2007/2/18 20:20
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 11/30/2006
From:
Comments: 449
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
Well actually it's just been really public since 14. Feb.

Quote:
I will contribute when i get some money..

Cool, I hope you get rich soon
Antique
Published: 2007/2/18 20:33  Updated: 2007/2/18 20:33
Home away from home
Joined: 11/30/2006
From: Norway
Comments: 2485
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
So do i.
Antique
Published: 2007/2/22 20:43  Updated: 2007/2/22 20:43
Home away from home
Joined: 11/30/2006
From: Norway
Comments: 2485
 Re: Sputnik for AmigaOS4?
@Troels

Nice looking bounty site
Looking forward to more projects too.
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