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SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
Just popping in
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Hallo to all, and thank you in advance if anyone has suggestions what I could try to resolve this current issue.

So, I seem to be experiencing stutering, an example would be, you open up a drawer, and then go to drag the window around, now, no matter the size of the window, even when it is small, it stutters the movement.

It is not constant but I did not have this before, so I am confused why I have it now.

At first I noticed it in a game, think it was shogo by memory, but I thought it was just due to the CPU being at 100 percent useage during the game play, and tbh, the stutter in game did feel more FPS related potentially.

It was onyl after closing the game that I then started testing only to find to my shock horror it is happening within workbench as well, even when the CPU sits around 30 to 50%, depending on task I am doing. (JUST retested, seems to go right up to 78% but still, that means it shouldnt be stuttering)

Like right now my CPU just typing seems to be fluctuating also between 23 to 40%, which also doesnt make sense to me, as all Im doing is typing?

Could it be a Library needs updating, and if so, how do I find out which one?

Could it be my GPU, it is a 5450 Radeon HD (Mind you I am expecting a radeon HD r7 240 to arrive sometimes this week as my upgrade for my modern gen (classic now) machine.

Another thought I had, was cooling, but recently Ive installed a nice big 120mm Noctua fan blowing cool air directly onto the passive cooling onto the CPU, which has made a difference for some programs running at the time before I noticed this issue BTW.

Lastly I do have composite on, but don't recall that being an issue before.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Or if this topic has actually been dealt with before, as I did a search, please refer me to that thread.

With Kindest Regards

Fellow Amiga User

Courtesy of SAM440Flex & Amiga OS4.1 only
Flex is 800mhz
A1000 with Classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.1
AmiKit 12
MorphOS PowerBook G4 (which can play youtube vids)

https://blitterwolf.blogspot.com
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
Not too shy to talk
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@Gebrochen
I cannot second this. I have Sam460ep-flex, 733MHz version with R9 270X.
Windows move is smooth, when I typing fast in shell, CPU is utilized 4-7%, in standby 3-5% ( CPUInfo.docky )

First check, if you have right RadonHD.chip ( v3.7 from last Enhancer works for me, and according to wiki v1.20, v2.21 or v3.6 should work too )

I have compositing desktop, so try it with Prefs/Gui/Effects/compositing enable + optimizing for performance.
If not works, check wbstartup and user-startup if there are no some power-consuming apps.

Then, I can only recommend to wait for new R7 240 card, and if it not helps, reinstall AmigaOS.

Here is my old article about testing graphics cards on Sam440ep-flex ( Czech language ). Look inside and compare results with your cards.

AmigaOS3: Amiga 1200
AmigaOS4: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOne X1000
MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook, Mac Mini, iMac, Powermac Quad
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
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@Gebrochen

You could try top or Tequila to see which tasks use most CPU: http://capehill.kapsi.fi/top/

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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
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@sailor

I dont believe it myself but, I turned on performance and only slight difference was noticed at first, but for some reason it closed my limpd clock, and a HUGE difference was noticed.

So then I made my limpid clock iconify, and went straight into game shogo, the stuttering is gone...

then back to workbench aka desktop environment, moving my windows around from opened drawers no stutte...

HOWEVER

I still clearly have issues, as my CPUinfo states 70% cpu useage during this, and you were stating your sam flex sits at a comfortable 7% during that process.

Either way this is a HUGE improvement, albeit, Im going to have to iconify the limpid clock when wanting to do things, why is this the case?

Also of note, can you do me a favour and install limpid clock and have it in your wb startup, just to see if you also have same issue with that program running?

Thank you very kindly.

Meanwhile yes, the composite was set to video not performace, changing this alone to performance also made a difference.

It seems however my issues are still underlying then? As I do not wish to believe some simple program like limpid clock can practically stall a machine running at 800mhz????

Cheers

Courtesy of SAM440Flex & Amiga OS4.1 only
Flex is 800mhz
A1000 with Classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.1
AmiKit 12
MorphOS PowerBook G4 (which can play youtube vids)

https://blitterwolf.blogspot.com
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
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@Capehill

I usually have whisky though haha.

But yes when I get a chance, as family visitors coming over shortly, I will try this tequila program, not sure what it does, but hopefully it has a read me

Courtesy of SAM440Flex & Amiga OS4.1 only
Flex is 800mhz
A1000 with Classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.1
AmiKit 12
MorphOS PowerBook G4 (which can play youtube vids)

https://blitterwolf.blogspot.com
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
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@sailor

In addition, just noticed one can change the Limpid Clocks priority, which also helps a lot, so I have choice now, leave it as it is with the knowledge to iconify it for big tasks

get rid of Limpid clock and find another clock for workbench

I also have the other thing of trying to work out what the maximum anyone has clocked the sam flex to?

Atm as I said my flex is running at 800mhz, but there are different clocks to choose from via the hyperclock

Can people please let me know what they have set their hyperclock to, and what timings?

mines at 800mhz - fsb -133 - pci 133

is this considered acceptable or a bad timing?

Thank you again

Courtesy of SAM440Flex & Amiga OS4.1 only
Flex is 800mhz
A1000 with Classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.1
AmiKit 12
MorphOS PowerBook G4 (which can play youtube vids)

https://blitterwolf.blogspot.com
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
Not too shy to talk
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@sailor

Quote:
I cannot second this.




Quote:
R9 270X.


Well there's your answer!

Quote:
Here is my old article.


Definitely an invaluable resource on graphic card comparisons.

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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
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@Hypex

I have found another issue or two to deal with still.

Im thankful I can now run shogo smoothly, and most games seem to be far smoother to play fromt he quick testing I have done.

PROBLEM : Dragging open drawer windows, so when you go into the bottom right corner to drag a window to make it bigger or smaller, it is SUPER slow

what could be causing this?

Also happy to announce during typing now my cpu only fluctuates between 6% to 30% instead of 30 to 70% like before, so clearly some things and issues have already been somewhat dealt with.

Can anyone suggest how to resolve this next issue, as I understand if the dragging is slow on Odyssey browser, but surely not on workbench window, or any other drawer ive opened window that only has icons within it of other drawers and stuff?

even when I go to list view, so Amiga 2, it is also slow to drag a window to resize it.

Cheers

Courtesy of SAM440Flex & Amiga OS4.1 only
Flex is 800mhz
A1000 with Classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.1
AmiKit 12
MorphOS PowerBook G4 (which can play youtube vids)

https://blitterwolf.blogspot.com
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
Not too shy to talk
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@Gebrochen
limpid clock runnig, CPU usage increase to 8%
If I moving with clock+calendar fast around the workbench, usage goes to 50-70%. But I think it is normal.
Moving around a notepad full of text utilizes CPU to 35%..

Quote:
mines at 800mhz - fsb -133 - pci 133

factory default for 800 MHz version is FSB 133, PCI 66
my 733 MHz version have FSB 147, PCI 73 - i.e. slower CPU, faster buses

800 CPU, FSB 133, PCI 133 in Hyperclock is one of many oveclocking options.
I recommend try modes where all three frequencies are same or a little higher than yours. PCI 133 MHz is too much = 2x standard value, your PCI-PCIe bridge or other device probably freeze.
Try:
800-160-80
833-167-83
867-144-72
probably none of them will not work for you, it is too high. But try it.

For example, for me worked 778-156-78 for some application and games, not for all. You should also try my frequentions, CPU a little bit slower, but faster busses - it depend of task, if it will be ok or not.

AmigaOS3: Amiga 1200
AmigaOS4: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOne X1000
MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook, Mac Mini, iMac, Powermac Quad
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
Not too shy to talk
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@Hypex
Thanks!

AmigaOS3: Amiga 1200
AmigaOS4: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOne X1000
MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook, Mac Mini, iMac, Powermac Quad
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
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@Gebrochen

Try the Sam440ep_setup utility from OS4Depot:

http://os4depot.net/share/utility/shell/sam440ep_setup.lha

if it help with your dragging open drawer windows slowness, which is in part due the HD 5450 used which has a PCI-PCIe bridge onboard.

Max Tretene, ACube Systems Srl, Soft3
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
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@sailor

I would like to believe you, but the lowest the program gives me is 800 160 80

so, perhaps the earlier boards had higher rates?

But it has always been stable running generally speaking, and only programs can ofcourse at times make it freeze after pushing kill.....

If I compare it to my friends xe1 or x1000, both of his crash far more reguarlarly when even trying to run programs, which I dont understand with his x1000 being vastly superior CPU core, with a nice hot rx 580 by memory, lol.

Either way, I had tried ages ago to over clock it higher when I noticed the stuttering actually haha, but then it auto reset to this setting for me.

According to someone on discord what I am running was considered the standard.

Moving on Im typing here and playing mpeg video with the InFamous and LEGEND of a human Mick JT, without that person I'd not even be able to enjoy video on such a lower tier system Id imagine.

System when I iconify Limpid Clock runs at 44 - 48% when Mpeg player running and now typing to you, so I am indeed VERY VERY HAPPY versus what I was experiencing which is even stutter in the sound and video at the time.

On discord they mentioned Limpid Clock has been known to cause problems for some Amigans and their systems.

I did find a work around via making its priority less as forementioned I believe. Set it to -4

But if I want ULTIMATE performance I can simply Iconify the Limpid Clock.

Thank you for your help though with the compositing to performance

Once my R7 240 arrives, should I assume I could change the composite back to video instead to save further CPU or do I keep it on performance?

Thanking you kindly.

P.S. I suspect another user after you has answered that it could be my 5450 causing the slow dragging.

Courtesy of SAM440Flex & Amiga OS4.1 only
Flex is 800mhz
A1000 with Classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.1
AmiKit 12
MorphOS PowerBook G4 (which can play youtube vids)

https://blitterwolf.blogspot.com
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
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@m3x

Yes correct I have only the 45$ or whatever it was at the time back then version, goes directly from PCi to PCIe to 5450, someone else suggested that they are impressed my system runs, as he gave some technicals with his answer

He mentioned 5v, plus 12v, still isnt 19.1v, which is apparently the max out requirement of the 5450 for power to run it.

I think he also mentioned a possible alternative solution should my upcoming r7 240 not work with my current adapter, which is to power the adapter slot seperately, but that would require me to the purchase ofcourse a secondary adapter where the card would then sit into, a usb goes in the new adapter, and a mini pci goes into the board I think is what I saw from that picture.

Thank you for the link, will suss it out and decide if I do or do not go ahead with it, as they say, if it aint broke dont fix it, and technically I can now run almost all the games and software I have ont he system currently without stutter so, this is a HUGE bonus for me.

I am still wonderig if I should consider at some point a more powerful Amiga PPC version but alas, it seems development and everything else has been kind of slow due to Hyperions dilema yet again, which has only recently been resolved I heard from a friend.

If so, how much of an improvement would the sam460le be from Acube, I think this is only a 1.10ghz board, not that much higher than my 800mhz, almost makes me wonder if it might be worth saving up for the bigger sister x5000?

Any other motherboard or even second hand options that could be suggested I would welcome and gladly look into.

Courtesy of SAM440Flex & Amiga OS4.1 only
Flex is 800mhz
A1000 with Classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.1
AmiKit 12
MorphOS PowerBook G4 (which can play youtube vids)

https://blitterwolf.blogspot.com
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
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@ ALL

Thank you very kindly for all the help thus far, GREATLY and IMMENSELY appreciated, makes me PROUD to see there are still Amiga people not just bashing a system and just accepting life and current situation in amiga land for what it is.

Courtesy of SAM440Flex & Amiga OS4.1 only
Flex is 800mhz
A1000 with Classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.1
AmiKit 12
MorphOS PowerBook G4 (which can play youtube vids)

https://blitterwolf.blogspot.com
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
Not too shy to talk
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@GebrochenQuote:
Gebrochen wrote:@sailor

I would like to believe you, but the lowest the program gives me is 800 160 80

so, perhaps the earlier boards had higher rates?

This question is directly after m3x. He made HyperClock (thx!).
As I know, Sam CPU has several buses with several timings. Combinations in Hyperclock selected from many theoretical combinations to several working combinations.
And no, first Sam460 has no 133 PCI bus for sure.

Generally, all Sam440 and Sam460 are very nice and very stable piece of hardware, but with lower power. So we need some careful configuration ( especially with emulators etc ).

Enjoy it.
I have now also Sam460LE, so will I test it against Sam440ep-fxex and made some article.

AmigaOS3: Amiga 1200
AmigaOS4: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOne X1000
MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook, Mac Mini, iMac, Powermac Quad
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
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@Gebrochen

I've found sometimes window dragging can go weird and jump around. And scroll bars as well. For example CompareDirs is practically unusable with large files as I try and drag the scroll bar but it just keeps jumping up. And it doesn't support any common keypad shortcuts.

Anyway I checked my settings on the XE which has a 9200SE. Classic. Try that out in the video bench site. Lol. So in GUI Prefs Effects section I have Compositing enabled but Optimise for video memory. I have also have vertical Synchronise on.

It's connected to a full HD monitor and default to 1920x1080x32 mode. Video ram is 128MB. I have about 80MB free with a few windows open on Workbench.

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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
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@Hypex

Well for fun just tried video perfomance again in compositing, and my system is better in regards to the cpu doesnt jump to 100% but 90% or so when vivdly moving things around.

Perhaps all along my main issues were :

1 - kickstart

in regards to the Radeon HD Chip debug, which should have read Radeon HD Chip

2 - LIMPID CLOCK program

By changing the priority helps, but iconify or closing completely absolutely helps

P.S. I tried my new R7 240 GPU, didnt quiet work, so then I tried my 9250, also didnt work??? WTF

So for now Im back to the 5450 as I sit here in confusion to why the 9250 doesnt wish to work.

Might test the 9250 again another day, but for today Ive waste enough time and have bought a different adapter that will be powered, to help get more power to the GPU

SINCE I will have that adapter, I may even end up using the 7770, but again, does this card also not support 3d or mini gl?

Courtesy of SAM440Flex & Amiga OS4.1 only
Flex is 800mhz
A1000 with Classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.1
AmiKit 12
MorphOS PowerBook G4 (which can play youtube vids)

https://blitterwolf.blogspot.com
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
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@sailor

I see your confusion, I dont own a sam460

I have here a sam flex 440 here which yes is at 133 but also at 80 for pci I believe.

Meanwhile what GPU cards should work with the Radeon HD driver v3.6?

I thought 9250, 7770, 5450 obviously does and the r7 240 should all be working with the system?

I just tried new card to no avail and am assuming both the 7770 which Ive had for ages and the r7 240 simply need more power than what current adapter gives.

But with no adapter needed my 9250 should have still worked, but after testing nothing was showing up.

Mind you my new monitor needs to go from hdmi, to hdmi / dvi adapter.....wondering if this causes issues in Amiga land for GPUs in regards to showing a display?

Cheers

Courtesy of SAM440Flex & Amiga OS4.1 only
Flex is 800mhz
A1000 with Classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.1
AmiKit 12
MorphOS PowerBook G4 (which can play youtube vids)

https://blitterwolf.blogspot.com
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
Not too shy to talk
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@GebrochenQuote:
Gebrochen wrote:@sailor
If so, how much of an improvement would the sam460le be from Acube, I think this is only a 1.10ghz board,...
....
I see your confusion, I dont own a sam460 I have here a sam flex 440 here which yes is at 133 but also at 80 for pci I believe.


I know, I mentioned Sam460 only becouse you were curious about Sam460 speed vs. Sam440, and this I can answer - after testing

Quote:

Meanwhile what GPU cards should work with the Radeon HD driver v3.6?

I thought 9250, 7770, 5450 obviously does and the r7 240 should all be working with the system?

I just tried new card to no avail and am assuming both the 7770 which Ive had for ages and the r7 240 simply need more power than what current adapter gives.

But with no adapter needed my 9250 should have still worked, but after testing nothing was showing up.


You have several options with Sam440ep ( check the article above )

1. PCI card
Standart 9200, 9100 cards need no Enhancer or Radeon HD driver.
Disadvantage is, that Warp3D Nova and OGLES2 not works here.

( P.S: PCI versions of newer PCIe cards (like your radeon HD5450 probably ) is the same like PCIe cards below )

2. AGP cards
- needs PCI-AGP adapter ( powered). Best is Radeon 9000 PRO.
Much faster than PCI 9200 or 9250, no RadeonHD needed, Warp3D Nova and OGLES2 not works here.

3. PCIe cards
- needs PCI - PCIe adapter + powered extension. For howto do powered extension, look into article.
All these cards needs to purchase Enhancer or RadeonHD driver. There are RadeonHD version with limited functions on installation CD, but it is only for installation, it has no advanced functions.

Versions: look here.

RadeonHD.chip v3.x ( part of Enhacer ) - is must have if using PCIe cards ( or PCI HD cards )
compatible with X1300-X1950 and HD 4xxx - HD 7xxx, R7, R9
This version has no video decoder.

There are also RadeonHD v5, but only for X1000, X5000 and Sam460ex! It is no for Sam440!
This version is limited to HD 77++, R7, R9, it has GART ( except Sam460) and video decoding feature.
I will test it, if it can be used on Sam440 - CPU is by design similar to Sam460ex, and let know.

AmigaOS3: Amiga 1200
AmigaOS4: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOne X1000
MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook, Mac Mini, iMac, Powermac Quad
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
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@sailor

Ok well, to be fair then, in that case I am very surprised the 5450 works so well with my sam440 flex with just an adapter that isnt powered.

Would also explain why the r7 240 may have been struggling to keep a constant fan speed and why there was no display on screen

By golly gosh I can type fast right now on the sam without slow down since our little minor tune up. :D

I feel like creating a threat as well as chatting on discord has paid Dividence for my sam flex to become very very useable....

Im listing to music video now though with no dramas since our little fix while typing fast here??? Not sure how its doing it then if theres no decoder?
Or is Mpeg a different ball game?

Either way quiet happy.

OK so lets TALK SHOP :

You're effectively saying the Radeon HD driver version I have will work fine with the R7 240 GPU, but judging by my experience and your analysis in your comment section its a simple case of the R7 240 most likely not getting enough power?

ALSO

That doesnt explain the 9250 issue, as in that case that should have displayed perfectly fine even with a hdmi to dvi converter on the GPU end, while HDMI plugged into my monitor?

AND

AFAIK 9250 did support mini gl and 3d support? I vaguely remember being surprised how many things were running back in the day on this system on its old HDD (before the fail, lost a lot of unique and odd programs)

Either way while writing this via the sam flex, I am impressed this entire reply only has taken me 5 minutes or less to write...

Before the fix this would have felt like a CHORE literally, atleast double time or so.....

:D Im REALLY happy guys atm with the performance having come back...

As for 3d part, a lot of games like shogo still work though despite not having mini gl or 3d support via the 5450???

Cheers and that's a lot of useful info.... Damn 6 minutes in now haha

Courtesy of SAM440Flex & Amiga OS4.1 only
Flex is 800mhz
A1000 with Classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.1
AmiKit 12
MorphOS PowerBook G4 (which can play youtube vids)

https://blitterwolf.blogspot.com
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