I recently had an e-mail discussion dialog between finnish verkkokauppa.com PC shop. I asked if they were interested in other products beside retro joysticks:
http://www.verkkokauppa.com/popups/prodinfo.php?id=31385

They said they were interested in minimig and SAM, but they need to be available to Finland in higher volumes and it needs to have a importer that can stock enough units.

(also the packaging and simple "ready to run" ability need to be high)

Is there any development to build a force to push AmigaHW+SW back to mainstream (internet) shops?


((If I had the pocketmoney to stock 1000 units of x1000, and time to prepare the documentation, perhaps x1000 could enter a finnish mainstream PC shop.))


Btw. Is x1000 going to ship as fully installed and preset system?
Is there marketing material (brochure) being prepared to attract PC dummies (while not giving false promises)?

@TrevorD

"As standard, the Xorro slot will be populated with a programmable 500MHz board dubbed Xena."

I think there is a need for a block diagram of the system.
The press can not read english, perhaps they would understand pictures.

@ChrisH

I want AOS4 to have a feature to (OPTIONALLY) limit physical RAM per application. There are apps (like quake1) that reserve all the RAM, untill it ends and only then starts to release/recycle it.

IIRC, on 68k virtual memory apps it was possible to set what amount of physical and virtual memory some application is allowed to have.

Then, no application can steal the responsiveness of a OS.

@whose

Valid points !

So we have more important challenges before "MP" -> full MP most likely is not in the top 100 of the feature list/roadmap.

@thread

Is MP anywhere to be seen in the AOS4 "roadmap"?

Pre study, kind of:

"Will AROS have memory protection, SVM, RT, ...?
Several hundred Amiga experts (that's what they thought of themselves at least) tried for three years to find a way to implement memory protection (MP) for AmigaOS. They failed. You should take it as a fact that the normal AmigaOS will never have MP like Unix or Windows NT.

But all is not lost. There are plans to integrate a variant of MP into AROS which will allows protection of at least new programs which know about it. Some efforts in this area look really promising. Also, is it really a problem if your machine crashes? Let me explain, before you nail me to a tree. The problem is not that the machine crashes, but rather:

You have no good idea why it crashed. Basically, you end up having to poke with a 100ft pole into a swamp with a thick fog.
You lose your work. Rebooting the machine is really no issue.

What we could try to construct is a system which will at least alert if something dubious is happening and which can tell you in great detail what was happening when the machine crashed and which will allow you to save your work and then crash. There will also be a means to check what has been saved so you can be sure that you don't continue with corrupted data.

The same thing goes for SVM (swappable virtual memory), RT (resource tracking) and SMP (symmetric multiprocessing). We are currently planning how to implement them, making sure that adding these features will be painless. However, they do not have the highest priority right now. Very basic RT has been added, though." - by AROS devs


Weird version of MP: (a few thoughts while having a cup of tea)
1) MP spaces for new apps (old apps could still kill the OS)
2) possibility to rewoke MP apps after AOS+old apps crash (only legacy apps + data would be lost in crash)
3) moving AOS services gradually to MP area
4) ...???

Added with other SW shutdown + restore features, these could improve the useability of AOS @ work.
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/v ... 160&viewmode=flat&order=0

@Helgis

amen to that!

@Antique

And PA6T has two RAM buses, so 128bit wide memory @ 1066Mhz.
(IIRC, SAM440 has 32bit RAM)

@Antique

"Apple sent a letter to the DoD saying it will assure production of the 1.8 GHz PWRficient processor for three to five years, said one source who saw the letter but asked not to be named. The letter suggests Apple will explore selling the designs to a third party after that time."
http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/sh ... jhtml?articleID=208808517


@thread

So, what we know about the CPU:
- it is a SoC
- it's Power Isa 2.04 or greater
- it's 64 bit (with 32bit fallback/compatible mode)
- it has enough serdes lines for PCIe x16
- it runs @ 1,8Ghz
- it dissipates >20W in full load & there's CPU cooler mounting holes on board
- it's dual core
- faster than anyting AOS4 has run on so far (per single core)
- the SoC has GPIO lines
- it "seems" to have two DDR2 bus (not officially confirmed)
- what else

So far only PA6T match with all that. (including known new y2010 production chips)



SMP, 64bit AOS4 .... sounds like Hyperion MAP to me.
(even though initially AOS4 runs in 32bit mode & single core)


PA6T specs...
- two DDR2-1066Mhz memory controllers
- Up to 16GB per channel (32GB max RAM)
- 2MB of L2 cache (900Mhz, IIRC) visible for both cores
- 2*64kb L1 Data cache
- 2*64kb L1 Instruction cache
- server-class reliability
- Dual integer execution units per core
- Full floating-point unit per core
- Full VMX unit per core
- Supports multiple, different operating systems simultaneously on each core
- 25W worst-case power dissipation
- 65nm CMOS technology
etc...

It is a huge jump from anything AOS4 has run on so far!

For example with PPC440ep we have no L2 and "only" 32k of L1 cache (32k i+32k d). On x1000 it seems that we have huge caches and superb fast RAM!

PA6T has more cache RAM than many classic Amigas had any RAM when they shipped...
I hope that we see PA6T kind of chip also on the low end ASAP.

IMHO: well worth 1500€ as a PPC HW


and... I started to wonder if there is already a military buyer for PPC+xcore combination ... -> key to PA6T availability??

@Antique

I say PA6T !
Or "Power"467 ?

@TrevorD & Co

It would be very nice to hear about the plans of how to get xcore developer tools ported to AOS4.1 xena. According to some people open source tools are not good enough for xcore.
(from documentation: "You must have a Java Runtime Environment (JRE) version 1.5 or later installed" )

And is x1000 going to appear here: http://www.xmos.com/technology/development-kits :P

@Helgis

Blender might be the best 3D CAD SW for AOS4 at the moment.
We also have also good selection of 68k apps, like Real3D, Aladdin 4D, Lightwave, Imagine, Tornado3D, etc, etc.

Not sure if Amiga version of blender support the import of autocad files, but I would be interested in playing with my own house design, once I get it converted to blender.

btw. I do not think x1000 has anything "unique" for 3D CAD yet, but perhaps some adapter on xorro slot could deliver the ultimate connection to these:
http://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/ ... regrine_gesture_glove.jpg
http://www.atelier-us.com/upload/2009/02/ipoint_3d.jpg
http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/06/3dglove.jpg
http://www.nootnatdit.net/blog/wp-con ... /02/virtual-reality-8.jpg
http://www.inition.co.uk/inition/imag ... glove_5dt_wirelesskit.jpg
http://www.streamhead.com/wp-content/ ... 08/04/virtual_reality.jpg

etc...

And example house renderings by Blender:
http://www.google.fi/images?um=1&hl=f ... aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&start=0


It must require a little practice before the 3D house model looks like this: http://www.wikiwak.com/image/Lone+House.jpg

@utri007

"Could it be possible to use it as a realtime rendering machine?"

No.
x1000 will have fast PPC and Ruby for that. (ATI r700 GPU)

"Or could it be possible use second core for that?"

What second core?

GPU is used for that, theres 80...800 units doing the calculation on r700.

post accidentally edited, removed.

@TrevorDick

Is the memory in two channel configuration (128bit wide) and @ what Mhz?

@angelheart

LOL!

I would like AmigaOne X4004 (4 core PPC SoC+4core xena+4Gb videoRAM+4Gb FastRAM+4x xorro+ 4button mouse + ...) for 4004€ ... ok, the price is not nice...

@Helgis

I expect 2Gb RAM to be usable initially, and something like 1Gb on the GFX card. Not sure if we see support for 4Gb before AOS4 can handle 64bit addressing, unless GFX RAM is separated somehow from the rest of the RAM addressing... (dont know how it's done on modern HW)

And I think it has been confirmed that the production version will run higher than 1,6Ghz. I bet 2Ghz is the clock. (And I bet 2x800Mhz or 2x1Ghz for RAM)

a-eon.com: "For reference, our designers have been running the cores at 1.6GHz during thermal testing, but this isn't the exact nominal clock speed."
FAQ: "avoid potential damage we have not run the CPU to its maximum rating"

it's annoying that http://a-eon.com/ is not fully up yet.

And btw, i think it would be time for FAQ4, IIRC it was supposed to be weekly....



BTW. meet our GFX Custom chip, Ruby: http://images.google.fi/images?client ... &resnum=1&ved=0CBEQsAQwAA

I do not like about the one part, so it would be AX1000 for me.

Or "Nemo".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4LyKd-Hws
Theme is ready. :P


And btw: the mainstream frightening, but with our blue friend(s) we'll manage:
http://jaypgreene.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/finding-nemo.jpg

I hope ACube one day affords to build a board that is more aimed towards Amiga users than to general embedded industry.

IMHO, this would be my optimal 460ex system (mid range):

SAM X460exM:
- AMCC 460ex SoC 1.066 Ghz
- 2 GB DDR2 Ram SODIMM 533 Mhz
- Silicon Motion (audio/video) or Natami audio/video or minimig audio/video or xcore generated audio/video or another free PCI
- PCI-express 4x lanes slot (16x mechanical connector)
- PCI-express 1x lane slot (for SATA board etc, inline with xorro)
- PCI slot, 32 bit, 66/33 Mhz, 3.3V
- 2e+4i USB2
- 2x 10/100/1000 Ethernet ports
- xena + xorro (instead of FPGA)
- integrated SD card reader
- RTC clock
- Serial port, 8-wires
- I2C and SPI/I2C buses
- Full system for 800? + tax

Low end:
SAM X460exL: (flex replacement)
- AMCC 460ex SoC 1.066 Ghz
- 1 GB DDR2 Ram SODIMM 533 Mhz
- PCI-express 4x lanes slot (16x mechanical connector)
- PCI-express 1x lane slot (or SATA ports with integrated splitter)
- PCI slot, 32 bit, 66/33 Mhz, 3.3V (one or two slots)
- 2e+4i USB2
- 2x 10/100/1000 Ethernet ports
- connector to 440localbus for optional xena board
- integrated SD card reader
- 350? with AOS4 (+tax) Full system for 500? + tax


Updated: division to LOW and MID

Update: GamerBoxLOW
SAM X460exGL:
- AMCC 460ex SoC 1.066 Ghz
- 1...2 GB DDR2 Ram SODIMM 533 Mhz
- PCI-express 4x lanes slot (16x mechanical connector) with 512M...1024M r700 series board
- SATA2 ports (using integrated SATA splitter)
- 4e USB2
- 2x 10/100/1000 Ethernet ports
- xena+xorro with super I/O card (4atari ports, etc...)
- integrated SD card reader
- retrogamepack+UAE+kickstarts+++
- Full system for 500? + tax

About game performance....

Already SAM440ep could deliver xbox1 kind of games, if we just had the SW.

IMHO, if SAM had r700 series Radeon, the game performance improvement might be similar than in this video where there is laptop GPU changed to desktop GPU via PCMCIA-to-PCIe x1 interface:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE5NmURV5P8&feature=related

But x1000 will have also
- 4...10x more CPU power than SAM
- ~10x more memory bandwidth
- Superb fast interface to the GPU



If we only had OpenGL and and ....

@Helgis

To me it sounds like DOpus Magellan features being integrated to AOS4 WorkBench.