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Re: YAM's strobing editor
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Quote:
If by queued you mean the mail in the Outgoing folder then yes I can. If I click the "Send" button in the main window, all the messages in the Outgoing folder are sent. My only complaint is that if I go to the Outgoing folder an select a single message (one message is highlighted) and click on "Send" all the outgoing messages are sent. I've accidently sent some incomplete messages by doing that.


This has always been the case since, let me guess, YAM 1.x? The "Send" button will always send all queued mails, unless you put them on hold ("Hold" button in the write window). If you click on "Send later" although the mail is not yet finished for you, then YAM cannot know about this fact and will happily send it off as soon as you click the "Send" button. "Send later" means exactly this: don't send the mail immediately, but later instead, perhaps along with some other queued mails.

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Re: YAM2.8 stable : In sight?
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Quote:
I'm an old user aswell (1989)


Baahh, children! Since 1988 for me

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Re: YAM2.8 stable : In sight?
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The freezing issue is fixed in the next nightly build. Thanks to Ricossa for his log which revealed the cause.

Why stop it now, just when I am hating it?

Thore Böckelmann
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Re: YAM2.8 stable : In sight?
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Quote:
The freezing however now of the whole system gave me no clue at all to report.


But exactly this is the point. You are annyoed by the freeze and switch back to an older version without telling anything about the issue. How can expect us to fix this bug if we don't know about it?

Quote:
As i still needed to have a working YAM i first reverted to older nightly builds
which worked and hoped that when newer came out the problem would have been solved.


Yes, this is the main problem with many people. They just hope that the bugs they don't report will be fixed magically within the next days. But how? If the developers neither do have this problem nor do know about it then they will not fix it. As a consequence YAM (or any other buggy application) gets a bad reputation as certain individuals at some time start to spread the news that the developers don't fix bugs and just make things worse. Really great!

Quote:
That's really all i can come up with today,
i would gladly report more however : Please tell me what to check


If YAM is freezing at some point then we need an "@all,all" log to find out where it freezes exactly. There is already ticket #346 for this bug. Please refer to this ticket for details and further replies. And please remember to log in before you reply anthing to make things easier for all of us.

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Re: YAM2.8 stable : In sight?
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Quote:
In the past i indeed sinned a number of times logging in as "anonymous"
Please be aware that this was never intentional. You might consider that people make mistakes. Reporting a bug is not that simple. Often you start, loggin in correctly, writing down what you have seen, have some doubts, go back to the problem, get a crash, go back to the bugtracker, and then, thinking you are still logged in, end up sending something anynomously. That is what happened to me.


I never said that anonymous reports and replies are intentional.

Anonymous replies a not that bad, but anonymous reports are. The problem is that even if you reply non-anonymously later you still get no notification when someone else asks a question.

And then, when you try to open a new ticket without having logged in before the very first line of the page says
Quote:
New tickets you submit will be routed for moderation. If you have an account, please log in first.


So you are even notified about this fact.

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I wonder however why the site offers this possibility, as it is obviously important to know who is reprting the bug.


Because some (many?) people are scared when they are asked to tell who they are. I really don't know why as we do not eat little children or something similar. But since we are interested in getting as many bugs fixed as possible we still allow anonymous reports. This allowes even these scared people let us know about bugs they found. Remember: a bug that is never reported is unlikely to be fixed.

But usually we need to ask further questions about a bug, and this becomes much easier if the bug was reported non-anonymously, because in this case the reporter gets a notification EMail and does not have to check manually for any progress about the report.

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Re: YAM2.8 stable : In sight?
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Quote:
I have exactly the same problem, since late July. I have no idea at all why it happens. Here on A1XE.


Same answer for you: <sarcasm>thanks for NOT reporting such facts.</sarcasm>

How often do we have to repeat that there is a bugtracker for YAM for exactly this purpose?

As long as we don't get more details the problem will remain as it is. Without information from your side we cannot search for bugs we don't encounter outselves.

Can you narrow down the coarse time window "late July" to an exact date when the issue arised for the first time so that we are able to narrow down the search for the bug to a limited amount of changes done? The recent nightly builds of are available here.

And finally once again: PLEASE use the bugtracker and PLEASE report the bug after logging in as it is quite hard to get an answer for from person "anonymous" if we have further questions to ask. This slows down fixing the bug considerably. Be as verbose as possible. Simple reports like "it crashes" or "it doesn't work" don't help anybody.

We cannot help you if you don't report the bugs. And this is best done on the bugtracker instead of any public forum. We cannot be present in each and every forum just to search for the slightest hint of a probable issue.

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Re: YAM2.8 stable : In sight?
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Quote:
the whole system froze during the loading of the interface. This was the case with at least 3 successive ,nightly builds. It may be correlated with thenew 'resources' drawer that appeared. If any i did miss instructions about this.


Many thanks for not reporting this issue

Well, how to handle a new drawer? Just copy it over as it is. There is no magic out that.

You really need to report bugs, otherwise they won't get fixed. We don't have a crystal ball nor do we have mind reading capabilities to know about bugs even before someone has told us about them.

I know you already reported a crash when using certain files from an older installation within a completely different scope. But the point is that until today you did not tell us which files exactly may cause the crash/lockup. So how can you expect us to fix this issue if you don't deliver any facts?

Quote:
I was not able to use the Yam forum too : login did not work (some error message about certificates not OK)


This is because Jens uses a self-signed certificate instead of an officially signed certificate. These are way too expensive.
Firefox is able to add an exception for such certificates. For MUIOWB you just have to switch off SSL error handling.

And even if logging in is still impossible for whatever reason, there is still the possibility to reach us via EMail. This also applies for bug reports.

Quote:
Now 2.7 still has the annoying bug i reported about (and as taken care of in the 2.8dev) that messages saved in "outgoing" folder could not be send later.
Any view on when 2.8 stable could be released?


When it's done: YAM 2.8 roadmap. We are not really hiding our plans. And this information is visible even without having to log in...

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Re: multiple YAM's
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Better remove the YAM: assign completely and fix all locations which still refer to it. The YAM: assign is no longer required since, let me think... YAM 2.4? Everything is handled with either full qualified path names or relative to PROGDIR:.

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Re: multiple YAM's
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Check the ToolTypes for a MAILDIR entry pointing to the old location. And of course check all files like .config and .folders for wrong path names.

Why stop it now, just when I am hating it?

Thore Böckelmann
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Re: Any MUI coding experts out there?
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Quote:
The FloattextObject is only 3 lines of text, and cannot resize vertically larger, despite containing 5 lines of text.


An example source is able to reveal lots of misunderstandings! This is an easy one. You have a fixed height label on the left side. Even if the Floattext object is resizable is both directions by nature the fixed height of the left side label forbids a vertical resize. If want to the Floattext object to be resizeable then you must make the label resizeable as well by adding at least one space object above or below the label object like this:

ChildVGroupChildLabel2("FloattextObject"), ChildVSpace(0), End,


This will give you a top aligned label. Placing the label after the VSpace(0) object will make it bottom aligned. Using VCenter() will give you a vertically centered label. Choose the solution which fits your needs best.

Quote:
The TextObject should draw outside of itself (once), although horizontally resizing the window will get rid of the rubbish. The TextObject will behave as if it contains only one line of text (cannot be scrolled or resized to show the other lines).


This is definitely a bug in MUI. The Text object just redraws itself, but does not cause a relayout due to the changed amount of lines. I will look into this.

EDIT: Ok, found it. The next release will handle changed number of lines correctly and resize/relayout the Text object accordingly. Thanks for the hint!


Edited by tboeckel on 2012/7/18 7:53:31
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Re: Any MUI coding experts out there?
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Quote:
Quote:
Would be nice if you could set up a tiny demo application which demonstrates exactly this behaviour with MUI 3.x. I'd like to know if this bug is fixed in MUI 4 already.

This is a bit difficult, since all my MUI code is auto-generated at run-time by my own GUI abstraction. However, I will see what I can do.


Just extract a portion of your generated code. Is that possible?

Quote:
That isn't the problem. The problem is that a FloattextObject only shows 3 lines (what is required to show the scrollbar+arrows), even if it's initial contents is "a million lines". And it is not possible to enlarge it (nor the window ) to show more than 3 lines. Trying to read a million lines through a (fixed-size!) peep hole is not fun, and I find it hard to believe this is MUI's intended behaviour.


Just take a look at MUI's demo application MUI-Demo. It uses Floattext objects in every single window. For me these are definitely higher than just 3 lines. The source is unchanged since, hm let me think... MUI 3.0? So even an outdated MUI 3.8 SDK should be enough.

Quote:
Still, if you think this is debatable, then perhaps it should be an option within MUI Prefs?


Definitely not, because this is something the user should not need to care about.

Quote:
BTW, my ideal compromise (solution) would be for the MUI window to be "half way" between it's smallest possible size & it's largest possible size.


I am getting more and more the impression that there is no MUI fault, but there is something fishy with you automatically generated code. If resizeable GUIs using MUI would be so hard to accomplish, then i.e. YAM would have a hard time.

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Re: Any MUI coding experts out there?
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Quote:
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Because you were telling something about "write outside of itself". I considered this as "text being displayed outside the object's box", because the text was modified externally by your application.

Yes, that is exactly what happens. When I use set().


Would be nice if you could set up a tiny demo application which demonstrates exactly this behaviour with MUI 3.x. I'd like to know if this bug is fixed in MUI 4 already.

Quote:
Quote:
(FloattextObject) It may be zero lines, but it may be a million lines. What should the initial size be in this case?

That's easy. The initial size should be "as large as possible", but if you want more precise: The text box should request the full size (a million lines if necessary), and the Window should try to accomodate that. If the screen is not large enough, then no problem as the text box has scrollbars.


Well, that is your personal opinion. I rather like windows which do not cover the whole screen unless I resize them. If an object is resizeable and scrollable there is no need to make it as big as possible. Why should an object consisting one million line be as high as the screen, even if that still is not large enough to display one million lines?

This is why you can specify 3 values during MUIM_AskMinMax: minimum, default and maximum. Just implement this method in your subclass and set the default size to a very large value, but smaller that MUI_MAXMAX (=10000). This will make your object as large as possible.

Quote:
At the moment it seems to take the least useful initial size, which is "as small as possible" (no matter the initial contents).


Again, this is your opinion. Others might think different.

Quote:
AND WORSE is that it cannot be enlarged beyond the initial size (so the window is also vertically fixed).


A plain text object cannot be higher than its text, unless you set MUIA_Text_SetVMax to FALSE (default is TRUE). This will give your object unrestricted height, but the text will be displayed vertically centered, unless you set MUIA_Text_VCenter to FALSE.

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No, I am not wrong.

Your answer worries me. Either the autodocs for MUI 3.8 contain a serious error, or MUI 4 is going to break compatibility with MUI 3.x (programs). Since I assume that MUIA_Text_Copy is a new MUI4 thing, I would have expected it to default to TRUE, so that MUI 3.x programs get the behaviour mentioned in the autodocs.


Specifying the default value again is neither bad nor illegal. Of course MUI4's default behaviour is to copy the text. I never said anything different. Please forgive me if I don't remember the default value for each and every attribute.

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Re: Any MUI coding experts out there?
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Quote:
I think you are wrong here, because the MUI Autodocs say "The string is copied into a private buffer, you can destroy the original after using this tag." (Of course you still need to use set() to tell MUI you want to change the text! MUI isn't psychic)


No, I am not wrong. This is why I mentioned the MUIA_Text_Copy attribute. This allows you to override this behaviour, but it is an attribute of MUI 4.x. MUI 3.8 will ignore it.

Furthermore, until your last post you never mentioned that you are referring to MUI 3.8. This has a fixed behaviour in certain respects, but MUI4 very often gives you the choice to change this fixed behaviour. I.e. there is no need to make another copy of a string from a locale catalog which will not vanish until you close the catalog. Thus you have the possibility to let Text.mui use the string directly without copying it.

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Re: Any MUI coding experts out there?
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Quote:

ChrisH wrote:
Quote:
(TextObject) If you really need to change the text, then you must set() it again after the modification.

That is what I *am* doing! Why did you think I wasn't?


Because you were telling something about "write outside of itself". I considered this as "text being displayed outside the object's box", because the text was modified externally by your application. That's all.

Quote:
Perhaps I misunderstand your reply, but it doesn't seem relevant to what I said: I want FloattextObject to show the entire *initial* contents, but it only shows 3 lines (no matter how large the window starts out). If this is the intended behaviour, it seems kind of useless!


Floattext.mui is a subclass of List.mui and as such has no restrictions on its dimensions, except you enforce them, i.e. by using MUIA_FixHeightTxt or by subclassing Floattext.mui yourself with a restricting implementation of MUIM_AskMinMax. MUI cannot just resize an object to display the entire inital content, because the content is arbitrary. It may be zero lines, but it may be a million lines. What should the initial size be in this case? Of course you can override MUIM_AskMinMax and return the dimensions which fit you best, but you must be prepared and accept that MUI will adapt the actual dimensions of the object within the limits that your (or the default) MUIM_AskMinMax method returns.

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Re: Any MUI coding experts out there?
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Quote:
If I use a TextObject, then it has the FULL initial size... but if I append extra lines then these are not visible (although a bug causes it to write outside of itself!). The only way to get it to enlarge for the new text is to iconise & then uniconise the MUI window. Also, the text is not word-wrapped.


You must not modify the text as long as it is "in use" by the object. MUI will calculate the required dimensions on basis of the given text and expects it to be constant. If you really need to change the text, then you must set() it again after the modification. This will let MUI do a relayout to display all of the new text.

But this will work to a certain extend only, namely when the complete text's height becomes larger than the window's maximum height. If you need to display larger texts, then the object should be placed into a Scrollgroup object like this:
ScrollgroupObject,
  
MUIA_Scrollgroup_AutoBarsTRUE,
  
MUIA_Scrollgroup_ContentsVGroupV,
    
ChildTextObject,
      
MUIA_Text_Contents"insert your text here",
      
MUIA_Text_CopyTRUE,
      
End,
    
End,
  
End,


The attribute MUIA_Scrollgroup_AutoBars will let the scrollgroup show the scrollbars only if they are really needed, i.e. the contents' dimensions are larger than the scrollgroup's dimensions. This attribute is available in MUI4 only, MUI3 will silently ignore it and always show the scrollbars.

Second, the attribute MUIA_Text_Copy instructs Text.mui to keep a copy of your text. This makes it possible to free() the text given to MUIA_Text_Contents after object creation of after set() and it also allows you to modify the text without risking any graphical glitches due to redraw operations while the text is still modified.

However, your text will always be displayed exactly as you specify it. This means that you need to insert line breaks yourself.

Quote:
If I use FloattextObject or TextEditorObject, then no matter the initial contents, the initial size is always 3 lines of text (which is the minimum space needed by the scrollbar + arrows), but it is at least vertically scrollable. Also, the text is word-wrapped.


Since Floattext.mui inserts line breaks itself you cannot expect a variable height, because the text's height depends on the object's width. You can enforce a certain object height by using something like MUIA_FixHeightTxt, "\n\n\n\n". This will give you a fixed height of 4 lines while respecting the object's font.


Quote:
If I use a List(view)Object, then there are two cases:

1. If I leave "MUIA_List_AdjustHeight" at it's default (FALSE), then the list only gets 3 lines (for the scrollbar & arrows), whatever the initial content. As a bonus the window can be vertically resized, and the list auto-adjusts to show more contents in the available space.

2. If I set it to TRUE, then it does get the full initial contents height BUT IT IS STILL SCROLLABLE when larger content is added. This SOUNDS like exactly what I wanted, but there is a catch! The list now has a FIXED height, which (in general) means that the window also has a fixed height. So IF the initial contents is empty, then the initial height will be 3 lines (even if the window has room to spare), and the window cannot be made any taller.


Read the Autodocs and you will notice that this is a documented behaviour.

Quote:
BTW, a side-effect of using List(view)Object is that the text is not word-wrapped (since I don't know where it should be wrapped!). But I actually consider this preferable (although being able to word-wrap might be handy).


Of course the text is not wrapped. This is what Floattext.mui is meant for. Normal lists may contain lines of arbitrary length and even more than one column.

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Re: Any MUI coding experts out there?
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It would definitely help if you could explain a bit more detailed how you expect the text to look like. In how far does a simple text object not suite your needs?

(N)Floattext already does exactly the same as you did using the list. It splits a long text into separate lines, inserts some spaces to produce an aligned text and displays them.

The TextEditor class in read-only does more or less the same like Floattext, but with the ability to apply different styles and coloring apart from the standard MUI text engine. Furthermore it allows to let the user edit the text in read-write mode. YAM makes heavy use of it in both modes to show and edit the mails.

MUI definitely is no crap, otherwise other systems wouldn't have chosen it as their fundamental GUI system/framework.

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Re: MUI issues under 4.
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Quote:
Yesterday I was trying to create a little chart in an email with YAM and noticed that Tabs don't work on the editor. I don't know if it's an MUI, YAM, Texteditor or settings issue but would like to be able to use Tabs in the YAM editor.


The TAB key has been used by MUI to switch between the objects for about 20 years now. Although it is possible to change the key for this action (see Keyboard page of MUI prefs) this also requires the most recent version of TextEditor.mcc (15.38) to be installed to really insert either TAB characters or an appropriate amount of spaces when pressing the TAB key.

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Re: MUI issues under 4.
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Delete (or rename) the corresponding .prefs file in ENVARC:MUI. The application will then use the global settings. The .cfg files contain snapshotted window positions.

Why stop it now, just when I am hating it?

Thore Böckelmann
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Re: Annoying problem with std::vector
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Is it possible that malloc() and free() are called from different processes? If that is the case then it is obvious that this leads to problems, because newlib handles different memory lists for each opener to be able to release all allocated memory upon program termination.

To be able to malloc() memory in one process and free() the same block in a different process it is necessary to pass NP_Child,TRUE to CreateNewProcess() to make the created process a child of the creating process. After that the interaction of malloc() and free() between these two processes will work.

If that is not possible then you will need to set up some kind of IPC to ensure that all kind of malloc() and free() happens within one process only.

Why stop it now, just when I am hating it?

Thore Böckelmann
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Re: MUI event handling kludge mystery
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If you really need to call SetSignal() then there is something very bad going on.

Furthermore, two Wait() calls before the MUIM_Application_NewInput is bound to cause a non-responding GUI, because you never know when the first Wait() will return. It may take an arbitrary long time and the GUI will not respond to any input during this time, because any input will be handled in MUIM_Application_NewInput only.

As I already said, take a look at how YAM handles this situation. YAM uses lots of non-GUI-related signals and handles all of them with one single Wait() right after MUIM_Application_NewInput. And YAM is definitely working stable without the need to call SetSignal().

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