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Re: Thank you for OWB, Joerg
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Posted on: 2010/7/31 2:18
#941
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Just can't stay away 
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@ChrisH Quote: P.S. If I have attributes any work to Joerg which was actually done by someone else before he took-over, then I'm sorry! It's rather hard to know who did what on something that has been in development for as long as OWB. Of course the major work is done by the WebKit developers, and Pleyo implementing the OWBAL which made it work on any system without changes. In the AmigaOS 4.x parts there is not much from other developers, the only exceptions are: - The Arexx port was initially implemented by afxgroup for his SDL builds of OWB, some parts of it are still used in the current AmigaOS 4.x port. - The StringView gadget with history used for the URL was implemented by Stephen Fellner and Rene W. Olsen, I only fixed a few minor problems in it. - The bookmarks window was implemented by George Sokianos. A lot of things you mentioned like undo/redo, displaying the source of a page, pan scrolling, etc., are either core WebKit features, or were implemented by Pleyo for OWB (for example the cookie database, although it was completely unusable initially and I had to fix a lot of bugs in it to get it working correctly), and didn't require much, if any, changes in the AmigaOS 4.x parts of OWB. Of course there are improvements in AmigaOS itself used by OWB as well, for example support for close gadgets in tabs was added in the AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1 version of clicktab.gadget. It's the same for a lot of bug fixes and speed improvements, between the first AmigaOS 4.x SDL builds of OWB and the current AmigaOS 4.x version 3.29 there are several hundret OWB revisions and thousands of WebKit revisions with bug fixes and speed improvements, OTOH the opposite is the case as well. One of the major problems with WebKit is that there are no stable releases, new revisions fix bugs most of the time, but very often they add new bugs as well. Even a plain SDLCAIRO build of the current OWB without any of the AmigaOS 4.x parts doesn't have much in common with the OWB SDL builds by afxgroup from about 2 1/2 years ago any more (except for having no GUI, no support for multiple windows and other things which aren't required on CE devices). Most of my work in the AmigaOS 4.x port of OWB is "invisible", besides a lot of bug fixes (which often takes a lot of time if you want to identify the root if it and fix it correctly in such a complex program instead of only adding a quick workaround) for example things like the much faster AmigaOS font implementation instead of using the libfreetype/libfontconfig based one of OWB/WebKit, workarounds to keep it working on AmigaOS 4.0 at all (required as long as there is no AmigaOS 4.1 for classic Amigas), and regulary building new versions of several of the libraries OWB uses for AmigaOS 4.x (cairo, xml2, xslt, curl, openssl, ICU, sqlite, ...).
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Re: Shared objects and libauto
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Posted on: 2010/7/30 20:19
#942
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Just can't stay away
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@alfkil Quote: Is it possible to use -lauto when building a shared object? No, you must not link any static link library into a shared object. That doesn't work and will crash. (Unless all code in the static link library was compiled with -fPIC, but libauto.a isn't.) A libauto.so wouldn't make much sense since it would always open all supported libraries, classes, devices, etc., not only the required ones. Quote: gcc -shared -Wl,--no-undefined myso.c -o libmyso.so -lauto You have to add -fPIC (for compiling if you do it seperately) and remove -lauto. Quote: As you will see, the linker gives errors like "undefined reference to IDOS" etc. IDOS isn't opend by libauto anyway but by the C library startup code (currently IExec, IDOS, IUtility, SysBase, DOSBase and UtilityBase). Quote: I have tried without -Wl,--no-undefined, and it does seem to work this way. Only problem is, I need to keep this flag on for other reasons! Help!? For what do you need --no-undefined? Using it in a shared object doesn't make sense to me. If you have to keep using --no-undefined I guess the only way is to open IDOS, but using another variable name, yourself in a constructor function in your shared object and close it again in a destructor function.
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Re: Help port GStreamer
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Posted on: 2010/7/29 15:36
#943
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Just can't stay away
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@kas1e Quote: Joerg, give us answer about plz. Can you include TSK's DL manager code to OWB yourself I'd have to see his code first to be able to answer that question, but unless it's written for the OWB classes it's very likely more work integrating something from someone else in OWB than implementing it myself. Quote: or you can give us your latest source ? If someone would have sent me an E-Mail until last week asking for them it would have been no problem, but I didn't make DVD backups of the OWB 3.29 diffs yet and now they are only on the HDs of my dead A1 and it will take some time until I can access them again.
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Re: Porting more interesting stuff
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Posted on: 2010/7/26 1:10
#944
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Just can't stay away
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@kas1e Quote: Btw, maybe you can explain why MUI4 are not happenes for aos4 ? No idea, and I don't care at all. You have to ask Stefan Stuntz why he doesn't port it to AmigaOS.
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Re: Porting more interesting stuff
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Posted on: 2010/7/24 20:14
#945
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Just can't stay away
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@Fab Quote: No, i don't know, i can only think Hyperion wasn't interested in getting or porting it, or that they agreed with stuntzi only for MUI3.9. I really don't know about this. The only reason an OEM version of MUI had to be included in AmigaOS 4.x is the OEM version of IBrowse. At that time IBrowse was still developed and an IBrowse version 3.x with CSS and DOM support was planned. If it would have been known that there wont be any updates of IBrowse any more it would have been much better to include AWeb instead, like in AmigaOS 3.5 and 3.9, and porting MUI 3.9 to AmigaOS 4.x and including an OEM version of it wouldn't have been required.
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Re: Help Joerg
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Posted on: 2010/7/21 17:33
#946
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Just can't stay away
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@kas1e Quote: Why you ignore that question all the time: "Is the latest changes in the repository as well ?" ? :) No idea why the same question gets repeated several times, but I don't see any reason the repeat the answer to it as well  You can't simply commit changes to the OWB SVN. To add changes to the OWB SVN you have to create a patch with the included scripts, add it to the OWB trac and let someone else review your changes, if there is no problem the reviewer commits them to the SVN. Since the scripts don't work on AmigaOS and I have to transfer the sources to a Linux box for running them, and I'm, or at least was until now, the only one working on the AmigaOS 4.x port of OWB I don't update them often. If someone wants the sources of OWB 3.29 (a SVN diff to revision 1466, about 500 KB) send me an E-Mail.
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Re: Help Joerg
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Posted on: 2010/7/21 16:47
#947
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Just can't stay away
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@nexus Quote: Why does it make no sense to implement a desktop browser around OWB? It would be much more work than porting a browser like Firefox, or Chromium if you prefer WebKit (or even just something like Arora if you only want a simple one), and you'd never get a browser with all of the features of browsers like Firefox or Opera anyway, not even if several AmigaOS developers would work full time on it. Quote: Maybe I don't understand the term "desktop browser" in the right way .. OWB is a browser for CE devices ( http://www.sand-labs.org/owb#WhatisOWB ), not a browser for desktop computers. Quote: but if OWB shouldn't be used as a desktop browser then OWB on AOS4 makes no sense in its current state, too? It doesn't, it's just better than having nothing at all on AmigaOS for browsing web pages which depend on CSS and Javascript It's still the same it always was: A temporary solution until the port of a complete web browser like Firefox is done.
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Re: Help Joerg
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Posted on: 2010/7/21 13:33
#948
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Just can't stay away
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@porthan Quote: Erm, you obviously use endian aware macros when accessing endian depending memory. Of course you don't do that in AmigaOS software, it's not required since it only runs on big-endian CPUs. (And I wouldn't use macros but inline functions, or maybe #ifdef BIG_ENDIAN /* normal AmigaOS code */ #elif defined(LITTLE_ENDIAN) /* AROS workaround */ #else #error PDP_ENDIAN and other weird CPUs are not supported #endif) Quote: Preferably one doesnt try to parse font data on the disk directly at all... but that is another story. It doesn't have anything to do with strange things like that, it's just that rendering the pixels of the glyphs using something like *glyphARGBBuffer = (AA << 24) |?(RR << 16) | (GG < 8) | BB; doesn't work correctly on little endian CPUs since they store them in the wrong order (BGRA instead of ARGB) and you'd have to add AROS-only workarounds which are completely useless for AmigaOS and MorphOS.
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Re: Help Joerg
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Posted on: 2010/7/21 9:16
#949
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Just can't stay away
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@KimmoK Quote: Yes Quote: A bounty for the fusion of AOS4+AROS+MOS OWB.
It would/could bring OWB developers together to merge their doings to one combined browser.
Once the same code compiles for all flavours, the bounty would be given (split) to all three origins. It could be done if the 3 would have a lot in common, but there are more differences than anything else: - Different goals: The AmigaOS 4.x version is a port of OWB (with minimal features added to make it usable at all, for example a GUI, support for multiple windows/tabs and the much faster AmigaOS font implementation) while the author of the MorphOS OWB seems to try to implement a desktop browser around OWB (which makes no sense). - Neither the AROS OWB nor the MorphOS OWB use an AmigaOS GUI but Zune or MUI4 instead, i.e. you can't use anything in GUI related parts from the other 2 in the AmigaOS 4.x OWB and most of the platform specific parts depend on the GUI. Or you'd have to downgrade the GUI of the AmigaOS 4.x OWB to MUI, but it's impossible to collect a bounty large enough for me to consider touching extreme crap like MUI ever again. - To compile the same code for all OSes you have to replace every single OS function call by wrapper functions which have to be implemented for the 3 incompatible OSes. Even for my old AmigaOS 3.9 port of OWB I didn't do that, creating a new port from scratch instead which didn't share a single line of common code with my AmigaOS 4.x port was less work. - Unless you want to limit the AROS version to AROS/PPC you have to do the same for all endian depending memory accesses, for example in the AmigaOS font implementation, since AFAIK the AROS compilers for little-endian CPUs don't support generating code which automatically fixes them like the Amithlon GCC did. - No idea why, but the AROS OWB uses SDL. On AmigaOS 4.x using SDL graphics in OWB is a little bit (less than 5%) faster than using it's Cairo graphics implementation, but even if SDL would be twice as fast as Cairo on AROS they'd have to change it. The SDL graphics implementation of OWB is way too incomplete to be usable. Cooperation would only make sense in OS and GUI independant parts of OWB, for example adding PowerPC support in SquirrelFish Extreme. The only difference between AmigaOS, AROS and MorphOS there would be allocating the executable memory.
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Re: Locale prefs editor behaviour
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Posted on: 2010/7/19 20:47
#950
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Just can't stay away
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@trixie Quote: For instance, the editor shows me that the Czech language is associated with the ISO 8859-2 charset. When I select the language, the charset column disappears. Now if I want to select, say, English as another preferred language, why can't I see the charset anymore? AmigaOS 4.x supports configuring several, IIRC up to 10, languages, the catalogs are searched in the order the languages are configured in locale prefs, but only a single default charset which is set by the first language. For Czech there is only a single charset, but other languages can be used with different charsets, for example there are 3 for Serbian and 2 for a lot of others (ISO-8859-1 or -2 without Euro sign and ISO-8859-15 or -16 with the Euro sign, and a few other differences). Maybe there should be an ISO-8859-16 version of Czech as well, but I don't know if Czech can be used with that charset or if some chars required for Czech from ISO-8859-2 are missing in ISO-8859-16 and that's the reason why there is no ISO-8859-16 version of it.
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Re: html5 and youtube on OWB OS4?
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Posted on: 2010/7/18 20:37
#951
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Just can't stay away
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@jahc Quote: is it possible in the future, Joerg? OWB uses GStreamer for HTML5 audio and video, if someone ports it to AmigaOS 4.x I'll use it in the AmigaOS 4.x OWB. As for the other comments I wont reply to most of them, but I have to correct at least some of the worst nonsense: - afxgroup didn't port anything in OWB to AmigaOS 4.x, he "just" built the SDL version for AmigaOS 4.x. That's the whole point of OWB: It's a very simple (no GUI at all, no support for multiple windows, etc.) browser for CE devices which can be built for any system without changes. - I didn't remove AmigaOS 4.x support in the CMakefiles, there never was anything I could have removed. - I implemented support for downloads myself in the AmigaOS 4.x OWB, before the download code from the AROS author was added to the OWB SVN. Since most people seem to think the AmigaOS 4.x port of OWB it's useless crap I guess I wont waste my time on it any more. Maybe you'll find someone else who is stupid enough to port the AROS version (required if you want to have support for tabs) or the MorphOS version of OWB to AmigaOS 4.1, but I very much doubt it.
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Re: Mock up of A-Eon website
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Posted on: 2010/7/5 17:06
#952
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Just can't stay away
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@samo79 Quote: Quote:Implementing a download manger is trivial and only takes a few minutes
Sure, feature request for this was added more or less 16 months ago, a lot of few minutes to me There are even older feature requests I didn't implement yet, and since I consider a download manager one of the most useless features to add to OWB it's at the end of my todo list. There are some feature requests I'll never implement, for example support for windows and tabs at the same time, even if you repeat them 100 times Quote: But Flash isn't only spot banners or videos ... With something like libgnashplugins.so instead of the Adobe plugin on Windows or MacOS it basically is.
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Re: Mock up of A-Eon website
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Posted on: 2010/7/4 16:35
#953
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Just can't stay away
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@Daniel Quote: Personally I think it would have been more efficient for the Friedens to support OWB, maybe by working on missing areas like flash plugin, download manager. Implementing a download manger is trivial and only takes a few minutes, plugins are supported already (there are just none). If they'd port for example libgnashplugin.so to AmigaOS 4.x it would work in both Timberwolf and OWB - for displaying some annoying flash ads you could only block again in Timberwolf with Add-Ons like NoScript and Adblock plus but not in OWB (For most other things gnash isn't good enough.) Quote: That way we could have one complete browser sooner rather than the current situation and the Friedans would maybe have more time to work on other projects. That doesn't make any sense since they would have less time for other projects. Implementing a complete web browser, which would be comparable to browsers like Firefox or Opera, around OWB from scratch would be much more work than porting an existing web browser like Firefox is.
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Re: OS4 file system support
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Posted on: 2010/7/4 16:04
#954
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Just can't stay away
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@Chris Quote: You can share with Linux using FFS - mount it on the Linux side as affs. The Linux affs doesn't support the new AmigaOS 4.x long name formats (DOS\6 and DOS\7), and since affs has several bugs you should use a special DOS\3 ("International Fast FileSystem") partition only for that anyway, to be able to reformat it without losing important data.
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Re: OWB 3.29
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Posted on: 2010/7/3 0:43
#955
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Just can't stay away
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@samo79 Quote: Isn't possible to use hardware accelleration on the same version only when it's needed ? No, the hardware accelerated Cairo included in AmigaOS 4.1 is a shared object (SOBJS:libcairo.so), if I build OWB using shared objects instead of static link libraries it can't work on AmigaOS 4.0 any more.
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Re: Very, very, very very very slow star of Timberwolf
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Posted on: 2010/7/3 0:37
#956
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Just can't stay away
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@Fab Quote: Could you tell which filesystem you're using, too?
If it's FFS without long filename support, fontconfig might fail to create the cache file, since it exceeds 31 (or so, i don't remember FFS old limit there) characters. 30, but AmigaOS 4.x can't be used on a short name FFS SYS: partition anyway, which is of course mentioned in the documentation. For example "DejaVu Sans Mono Bold Oblique.font" is longer as well, and there are several other filenames in AmigaOS 4.x which are longer than 30 chars. Additionally libfreetype2 is unusable slow on FFS partitions, for example with the old SDL builds of OWB from Andrea which didn't have an AmigaOS font implementation yet but used libfreetype2 as well. If the SYS: partition (or whereever FONTS: is if he changed the default setup) is a short name FFS partition, which can't be used for AmigaOS 4.x and has to be reformatted anyway, he should reformat it using SFS/00 instead of DOS/07.
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Re: OWB 3.29
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Posted on: 2010/6/21 0:23
#957
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Just can't stay away
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@LiveForIt Quote: OWB is the fastest browser on my computer, all it really needs is a download manager, and maybe plugin support. I've implemented the AmigaOS 4.x parts of the plugin support in OWB, there are just no AmigaOS 4.x NPAPI plugins yet. @Deniil Quote: It's not slower with OWB than with Iceweasel on Linux on the same hardware. No idea if it would be faster with hardware accelleration enabled, but since that's only supported in AmigaOS 4.1 I can't use it in OWB anyway.
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Re: OWB 3.29
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Posted on: 2010/6/19 13:10
#958
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Just can't stay away
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@samo79 Quote: @joerg
How many user have (just) an Amiga 4000 with plain 4.0 ? No idea, but users with AmigaOS 4.1 and at least 512 MB RAM can use a complete web browser (Timberwolf) instead of OWB now.
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Re: OWB 3.29
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Posted on: 2010/6/19 12:38
#959
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Just can't stay away
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@Elwood Quote: @Jorg
Just to be sure, what does this mean? "Removed some Chinese, Japanese and Korean charsets from icudata.owb"
Does it mean that these people won't be able to use this OWB? It depends on the encoding used on the pages. If they are using UTF-8, which seems to be the case for most pages, they still work, but if they are using a special charset like for example http://kr.yahoo.com/ it doesn't work with the new icudata.owb. Quote: I'm asking because I know a japanese Amigan. If you have enough RAM and need it you can still use the older versions of icudata.owb with the current version of OWB, but most users don't need it and the new, smaller versions help on classic Amigas, especially A4000 with only 128 MB RAM.
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Re: OWB 3.28
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Posted on: 2010/6/4 1:52
#960
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Just can't stay away
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@tonyw Quote: Would you like me to issue a formal bug report? If it's loading correctly after using "Cancel" in the requester I've just fixed the bug.
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