I know of course it is OpenSource

Just after the third Amiga related project where I got told "use integer math".

No. It is not an option ...

Hi!

>If you're using QEMU Windows builds from weilnetz.de that are >linked from the qemu.org download page you may also try the builds >from emaculation.com instead which are closer to actual QEMU >source and were tested to run PPC MacOS so may work better. I'm >not sure though so if you try it please let us know if you saw any >difference.

Thanks for the hint.


>That it works with G3 but not the default G4 might suggest it >could be something about using altivec but then why that's not

As it happens before even the screen opens it sounds doubtful to me to be related to Altivec but no idea.

>One known limitation with QEMU PPC emulation is that FPU >operations are slower so if your workload uses floating point a >lot but there's an option to use integer math instead that might >help.

This is not possible. All my games rely massively on FPU performance and this is not possible to change. Probably MUCH easier that they improve FPU support. And they should, really. At least for games integer math doesn't matter anymore. It is only FPU which matters. And without reimplementing the games from scratch (I mean not the port, I mean the basic code of the game) this cannot be changed. Actually I am not even sure if it could be changed then even.

I don't know what this is, all those solutions which have bad FPU things - Apollo Vampire, A1222 (well, not an issue of performance here, but an issue of ABI) and now QEmu too ?

Nobody cares how great integer math you have in your CPU - it is FPU math which matters.

"Avoiding FPU usage" ? At least with modern games (as in "games which were modern 20 years ago and everything more recent") - not possible.

Again - tell them to improve FPU performance

MagicSN

I was busy with other stuff for a while, I answered now. Anyways H2 is pretty imminent. Probably no change to H2 binaries anymore possible, but my idea right now is to add a downloadable fix for the "video on peg2 qemu" issue which could be ready in time for the release.

As to Sin it definitely can be included into the release (where do I get the ffmpeg version which would be ideal to be used BTW ? Is it this "http://os4depot.net/share/video/convert/ffmpeg.lha" ?

The Sin porting project is still at an early stage.

Hi!

>If you have the option use ffplay. It should solve the problem >Qemu pegasos 2 G4 - is ns SDL2 and is based on ffmpeg.
>It should work on any Amiga.

Not in the released version probably but I will go sure to offer an update to fix this for QEmu users (probably just a replacement for the "mplayer" file which then internally calls ffmpeg ). Note you can run the videos if you start qemu with -cpu G3.

>Not everyone will buy it. It is better to make the game work on >any hardware and not make it dependent on the driver. As >@TheMagicSN wrote - it even works acrually on Qemu already.

Exactly. And there are no other options to make it work "better" on QEmu. As to speed - either it runs or it doesn't Not much options to make it faster sadly.

>A MacStudio/MacMini (ARM) does not have a DVD/CD-ROM drive. It's >like with the new XboxOne series X you can decide for it or >against it.

>You can see in my signature which hardware I use in conjunction >with Qemu and AmigaOs4.1. But that will be the least of my >problems since I still have an external CD/DVD drive lying >around that I could connect to my Mac.

I see. Have to admit I do not know much about Macs these days

But as you said yourselves an external CD will fix this, and once the CD has been written into an ISO it can be mounted by OS4 - problem solved.

And you actually do not need the CD while playing, only for installation.

>So the only problem that remains at the moment is playing the >video sequences...

Yes.

>Is MPlayer installed when you install your games?

Yes.

>Then you could simply replace it later with a version that >causes fewer problems. The option to deactivate the cutscenes >would also be an option, but that would certainly lose some of >the fun. Does it only affect the intro video sequences or all >other in-game sequences too?

For Sin definitely a later version will be used then. And it only affects the bumper video (Hyperion+Raven+Activision logos), intro video and outro video. Ingame sequences are not affected as those are in game graphics (so they are not affected), not with external video.

>When will you release your game ports for AmigaOs4.1?

H2 - pretty soon (so probably too late to change anything there on the video issue).

Sin - no idea yet, it is still pretty early in the project. Somewhen 2024 I would assume.

MagicSN

@AmigaOldskooler:

Sin will be big box AFAIK.

Current state of my projects

H2:

- No change on OS4 version as it was finished already last time I wrote It is still finished, haha!
- H2 68k tested on QEmu - playable on i7 with 640x480 in SW Renderer (on Peg2 setting has to be set to -cpu G3 else the movies crash, I got info the QEmu people are working on this bug though)
- H2 68k tested on QM4 PiStorm - 24 fps in 640x480, 19 fps in 800x600 in software rendering. Pretty awesome speed I think! (I get 42 fps on my x1000 with OS4 native version).

Sin:

- Software renderer now fully works
- Lots of small bugfixes
- multitexturing now for both GL Renderers, MiniGL renderer actually ended up slightly faster than gl4es


fps values on Sin software renderer are still in a flux. The needed Byteswaps for the RGB16PC mode ended in a big slowdown for the software renderer (still playable, but...) and I am currently looking at how to optimize that.

MagicSN

Yeah, I sent Frank some info already how to do a gl4es renderer (from my experience with H2, Q2 and Sin).

>But at the moment that doesn't make much sense to me, we know that >Hans de Ruiter is working on a Virtio driver and if this driver is >ever released, the first version could include 32bit support I'm >pretty sure and they would have to start again to make their game >ports compatible close.

I am not doing anything to change the games for QEmu right now ;) It is just the unmodified OS4 version I am doing anyways ,-)))

So the "Wait a while" comment does not make much sense to me. All I am doing is testing the already existing version on QEmu

This will be no "separate release for QEmu". Just finding out if it runs on QEmu.


>Then the problem would still have to be solved: how to install >Quake2/Sin/Heretic2 on a computer without a CD/DVD drive
>(MacStudio) if there are no digital versions. Not everyone will >have these problems, but it will be my problem

I assume the system on which QEmu runs will have a CD Drive ? It is easily possible to mount an ISO with OS4.

>I have a few test builds that contain fixes so that the SDL >video output also works properly under Pegasos2 emulation. I >just wanted to say that MPlayer is currently being worked on and >sooner or later there won't be any more problems with it.

I am in contact with the people doing the updated mplayer (assuming you refer to the port by Javier etc.).

And yes, I assumed the Peg2 sdl1 problem will eventually get fixed.

BTW I found out something interesting still:

When I before playing switch the video mode (I assume some weird interaction with video drivers ?) Sin runs much faster on QEmu (the effect happens only on QEmu, not on a physical Amiga).

Now I got 40 fps on 640x480 and 23 fps on 1024x768 with Sin.

(On H2 the effect also exists, but much smaller - it was this effect why I thought -cpu g3 is much slower while in fact it is around the same). In H2 it is 18 fps vs. 20-21 fps.

Weirdly I sometimes even have the faster speed when starting directly. Some Emulation weirdness I guess (it is not only the numbers, the game runs visibly faster when it happens - it is really playable in 1024x768 now).

MagicSN

Hi!

Okay, I got an explanation on the video mode. The mplayer port H2 uses uses SDL1, and the mplayer port used in H2 uses SDL1 (the game itselves doesn't). It has some other options for video replay, but none of the other options offers fullscreen.

So the current alternatives on running H2 (and potentially Sin later) on QEmu with working video/intro are:

- Running not with the Peg2 version (I was told the issue does not happen if you emulate a Sam or AmigaOneXE)
- running with -cpu G3 (this makes the game run 17% slower at only 18 fps which then is not really an alternative
- copying some other mplayer from os4depot on top after installation (sadly the ones I tried decode the format the H2 movies use incorrectly and look visually bad - I used this format on purpose as it is the fastest one to replay on slower Amigas like Sam440). Of course you could convert the videos manually to a format these other mplayer ports can handle.
- disabling videos

This explains also why a tester who uses QEmu with Sam version did not have the issue

MagicSN

>Could you please run a test on your x1000 with Quake Timedemo >software rendering? In this way you could roughly determine the >value of how it could run emulated under Qemu with current >hardware and its game ports.

With "Quake" you mean Quake 1 or Quake 2 ? I currently only have Quake 2 installed, but could install Quake 1 of course (For either I first need to set up a new imagefile, as the one I use is basically full with H2 and Sin installed). Personally I expect that speed of Quake 2 will be pretty similar to speed of Sin. Which would be right now 30 fps on 640x480 in software rendering on QEmu.

>You shouldn't rely on the Intel i9, we've already had a few >benchmark tests where the Mac hardware (arm) achieved the best >results, followed by AMD Ryzen under Qemu.

I am definitely not relying on i9 (I don't have a i9 myselves even and probably won't have for a long time). It was just a comment on the expected performance.

It is not a matter of "relaying", it is a matter of what is possible with current speed of running stuff like H2 on QEmu.

>The average user will probably use hardware i7, but will surely >upgrade in about 2-3 years.

Agreed.

@White:

>Currently emulating with qemu "morphos" with the "ATI" the >videos with OWB are very smooth even the video players and the >E-UAE itself is very fast.

Video replay is fine with H2, that is not the problem. The problem I mentioned about video replay on QEmu is that the mplayer port H2 uses crashes on QEmu with the -fs switch (which is what I am using). I already submitted a bugreport (for a game's video replay I need fullscreen). Weirdly this bug only happens under QEmu, not on native AmigaOS.

The speed problem is not related to video replay, it is related to actual game.

MagicSN

Hi!

Thanks for your answers, especially on the HD Size issue. Note using a physical harddrive is not an option for me as I run this on a Notebook, cannot add another harddrive there.

Replying to the mails from both of you here:

>ou currently get the best experience under Qemu with the Pegasos2 >machine, with Qemu 8.2 the AmigaOneXE machine will also be

Ok, then it seems to be good that I chose to use the Peg2 machine for QEmu

>I agree with you that we should support every system running >AmigaOs4.1 if possible. In order to be able to increase the user

Yes, absolutely agreed here. I am even trying to supporting some machines with OS3.2 as well (though this will be not possible for all machines running OS3.2).

>I almost overlooked that, which could mean that even in software >rendering "Sin" "Quake2" at least 800x600 16 bit 30 FPS would be

Remember the 1024x768 22 fps number was on a physical x1000 - not QEmu. QEmu is only around half-speed of the x1000 (QEmu on i7, on i9 maybe a different thing). And yes, if QEmu gets 3D Acceleration this will be a different thing. But right now - Sin in 8 Bit renderer is 25-30 fps in 640x480 on QEmu. So definitely no 30 fps in 1024x768.

>If you have the opportunity I would compile QEMU option "lto ->O3" and preferably under clang not gcc. It is possible that you >will then get better results in benchamrk and comfort of work.

Did not compile it myselves, used a downloadable binary. Is a binary for Windows with these changes available somewhere ?

Best regards,
MagicSN

@smarkusg:

If it runs, why should i not check it out And as they do run I wanted people know that they run. If some more games will be sold by QEmu users - good for me.

As you offered QEmu knowledge I already have one question - is it possible to "enlarge" an img file to have more harddrive space ? or can i mount two images instead of just one, for more partitions ? Thanks in advance.

Another thing i am wondering - I am using a Peg2 Install here. I heard there are also Sam installs. Does this matter (speed-wise) ? Or does it not matter at all?

@Maijestro:

As to Hyperion games some offer a software renderer, some not. Well actually right now nearly all offer a software renderer (I think Shogo might be hardware renderer only but i am not 100% sure on it, that's a Hyperion game where I - except for the very early phases of the project - was not involved. Sin currently doesn't have a ("really usable" at least) software renderer, but the plan is to fix this software renderer before the release of the game so that it is usable (current version is in 8 Bit, and 8 Bit gives ugly colors - so ugly I say it is not usable, final version will be using 16 Bit also in software rendering).

Some future games might be limited to 3D Hardware, but we will go above that bridge when it comes.

Note that for some games (like Heretic2) the hardware renderer looks much better than the software renderer. But it still looks fine in software rendering. And for Sin - once that colorbug is fixed I expect it to look the same like the 3D Hardware renderer.

As to Quake which you mentioned this is of course a much older engine than Heretic2 and Sin (which are based on the Quake 2 engine, though the engine in both cases is heavily modified, especially with H2). So basically Quake is one generation older.

Sin is for the Amiga not yet released (an announcement of the port was not even done yet but will probably soon come). Betatest started only very recently (as in very VERY recently).

and yeah, I absolutely agree that 640x480 is a bit low. Well, Sin maybe might run on 800x600 still. For anything higher (at least on QEmu) either an i9 would be needed or Hans' new Driver which hopefully should improve things drastically.

For H2 under QEmu 800x600 at decent speed (unless i9 ^^) is impossible (on my x1000 I can run the game in 1920x1024 and it is still smooth - obviously in 3D Hardware, though it is also playable on software rendering on larger resolutions - but on physical Amiga hardware people have 3d acceleration anyways, so nobody will use software rendering there - though the software renderer is included).

I just tried to run a timedemo on my x1000 using 1024x768 - still gave 22 fps in software rendering (obviously much higher in 3D Hardware, around 100 fps or somesuch).

And yeah, I will watch the stuff about Hans' new driver closely (and get a copy myselves probably). This should improve things. Actually at my normal job (I do not do Amiga stuff fulltime anymore) some people in my team became interested "about that game you port", and I will show them the game (and the OS) soon, using QEmu (don't want to transport my x1000 with the S-Bahn to the office).

As to the game ports, some older games (like Shogo and Gorky17) can be acquired digitally. Heretic2 and Sin will be a physical sale version (actually many at the start of the project asked me to do so - "a big cardboard box like back then" - actually the design of the new H2 cardboard box looks phantastic )) )

Personally I think the days of the of the internal Amiga system wars is over. I am trying to support a range of systems, among them of course (still my favorites ) physical PowerPC-equipped Amigas, QEmu, and several 68k systems (I already could show that my - still Alpha version - H2 68k compile runs at playable speed on PiStorm (though also at 640x480, maybe 800x600 maximum). I stil want to try to get something running for the Apollo Vampire too.

MagicSN

Hi!

I imagined some people might have been interested if my recent and ongoing game ports (Heretic2, Sin, Quake2) will run on QEmu.

I can now confirm that they do (well, didn't test Quake2, but don't expect further issues there).

My testing system was a i7-8750h at 2.2 GHz with a nVidia 2060 Notebook Graphics Board.

QEmu was configured to use Peg2 and is using OS4.1FE.

Heretic2: The game runs fine and playable at 640x480. Higher resolutions are too slow to be playable (somehow the fps drops a lot between 640x480 and 800x600). It runs at 21 fps in 640x480. This is half the speed the software renderer runs on a physical x1000.

Sin: The game runs faster than Heretic 2. At around 30 fps in 640x480. Note this is a Alpha Version of the software renderer I used which is currently 8 Bit but to get the colors right the final version needs to be 16 Bit which will probably cause some slowdown.

I *am* of course interested in what that "virtual Driver" Hans de Ruiter is currently developing might reach here.

Some comparision Data:

Heretic 2 on x1000 Software-renderer: 42 fps (108 fps in 3D HW)
Sin on x1000. Heretic2 68k (yes, different binary, so comparing apples with oranges ) on PiStorm 4: 21 fps
Sin on x1000 Software renderer: 50 fps (134 fps in 3D HW)

Installation runs much faster on QEmu, loading a level also runs a bit faster on QEmu (but is not that bad on a physical Amiga either).

There is still some trouble with the video player on my QEmu system (which doesn't happen on a physical Amiga) but it might be due to my QEmu setup (investigating).

For me it would be interesting if QEmu users actually are interested in buying Amiga ports of games which are already available on their native PC platform.

Best regards,
Steffen

Wow...

Sin MiniGL -> 50 fps (800x600)
Sin gl4es with multitexturing -> 100 fps (800x600)

MiniGL Renderer will also of course still get multitexturing added (Note gl4es was already a bit faster before, but not that much faster)

Just got the multitexturing running around 30 minutes ago

So current state of things:

Heretic 2 OS4 -> finished
Heretic 2 68k -> Alpha Version
SINcret ( ) project OS 4 -> Early Beta version
Quake 2 Update -> pretty far done, but not yet completely (GLES renderer has some problems on x5000 combined with rx580 cards for example)

Check this thread for some screenshots: https://os4welt.de/viewtopic.php?p=48064#p48064

I guess it might not be a big surprise what my "secret project is". Even starts with an "S" like "Secret".

The big surprise would be my second project, Heretic2 running on a Pistorm 4 (hope to get it running on other 68k as well). Note H2 68k is not as far as the OS 4 port (which is finished) of H2 yet.

I think the big issue MAME had in more recent versions was it used some custom build tool which made it very hard to compile it with a crosscompiler. And with a native compiler due to Linux tools involved it would not be easy either. But quite a while since I looked at it.

And as I do this Amiga-stuff all in my freetime (with gratitious permission of my employer to do a certain amount of Amiga-programming in my freetime even if it involves payment for the projects) not really time left for that either.

Hi!

@khayoz:

Yes, of course. I get a nice share of the profit of these projects. No fixed sum, but that cannot be expected.

Steffen

Ok, seems to be that there will be two new things from me to see at Amiga Meeting Nord At least one of them will come as a big surprise, maybe both (though I suspect one is not really that big a surprise)

After a long time some more information from me:

Heretic 2: Finished. For soon release.

Quake 2: Recently a lot of Betatesting and finalizing the installer and such stuff.

My Secret Project (3D Game): I expect to REVEAL the name of my secret project in early November )) Maybe some other news too.

Sorry I cannot say anything on the other game, but it is my sincere hope it will not stay at one game there