@all

Rogue has recently said that works on the Classic OS4 is ongoing and thats great to hear.

I don't want to ask when it will be released, but a more simple question that can even be ansered with YES or NO.

Will we have to wait until the end of the lawsuit so that Classic OS4 can be released by Hyperion and ACube?

If no, is it legally possible to release it BEFORE the end of the lawsuit?

This would help to estimate the waiting time.

@Helgis

Great that you are here now. I have said multiple times that I am not a Helge from Norway, but people have still confused me with you! Too bad the name is so common in our countries, maybe I should rename my nickname if that is possible?

But maybe things are clearer now for some peoples.

@billt

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I think it was on this forum in the ACK thread, which was later renamed to something nicer. Rogue posted his ideas about memory protection there and then some well-known troll made a big fuss on Amigaworld about it. At least that's how I see it.

@GregS

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That's also how I understood it. But Petunia will still be needed to run 68k apps, or not? It would be a shame to drop it, much work has been put into it. Maybe the Petunia-JIT-emulator can be run inside the Virtual Environment together with the then obsolete OS4? I can't find a reason why not. So there is still emulation to some extent.

I agree with elwood, memory protection is necessary to improve stability. When I had they XE, I had to reboot quite often, especially when Ibrowse crashed.
I think Windows is a good example for the benefits. With Windows 95 and 98 I had many crashes and blue-screens that took down the whole OS, so I had to reboot. This was annoying and of course it took longer than with OS4.
But with 2000 and XP I never had these crashes that locked the whole OS. If an application behaves badly (rarely happens) then you can just quit it with the task manager and restart it. It also doesn't affect your data which you have opened in the background, for example Microsoft Excel.
I am not sure if I would risk to write my thesis with OS4 at the moment. It is possible, but would have to backup and safe the documents very often, especially when I use IBrowse at the same time to google for information.

So if AmigaOS wants to be taken serious as an advanced operating system, then it needs memory protection. If it only wants to be an OS for remembering the past and to dwell in memories, then it of course doesn't need it. But then again, you could easily use your Amiga 500 instead.

P.S.: I dont understand what the big fuss on other webforums is about and why they are making a scandal out of it. I though it was clear for a long time that OS4 will get MP. The comparisons with MOS is only to make trollings.

@TSK

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Collecting strange hats and ties?

Do you really have a red-white checkered guitar or did you edit it with Photoshop?

@Outcast

Tumbleweed... That describes the situation very well!
You must have created it when the lawsuit started.

@acefnq

Do you also do body-building?

@ssolie



I hope it's not my liver that you plan to eat! Have I told you that I live a very unhealthy life with a lot of alcohol, tabaco and drugs?

And just for the record, I am not a census taker!

@xeron

Does that apply to all cheese or do you favour a special kind of cheese?

@Rogue

Thanks for the explanation and great to hear about the Classic version. I hope it is released soon. OS4 needs fresh blood quickly!

@Mikey_C

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LOL! Maybe it means:

"A man in the full bloom of his life"

By the way, from which horror movie is you avatar derived from?

I am always wondering about the avatars in the forums, what they mean and why peoples have chosen them.

So this thread is for introducing your avatar to the other users.

Ok, I will start. My avatar is not difficult to recognise I think. It shows Lorraine, the first Amiga prototype which was demonstrated in 1984. I am still amazed how this thing worked. And when it crashed, the engineers quickly localized the ICs and changed them during the presentation.
Why have I chosen it, do I really need to explain? I have warm feelings for the good old past and the Amiga dream as it was back in the day when it all started. Sometimes I wish that more of this dream would be saved and kept during the current times that are dominated by lawsuits, lawyers, disappointments and unfulfilled promises.

@keisangi

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Maybe... But it all depends on price! I think most of these types of peoples would want to buy an Amiga mainly because of the games. It's the same with the C64DTV. Many bought it because... it has games, was cheap and they remembered the past.
The problem with AmigaOS4 hardware is that it is for the most peoples too expensive only for remembering the past and playing some games. But this is the biggest group of buyers!
I think the users who remember the Amiga for the Workbench are much less than the ones who remember it for the games.
When I tried EUAE on my XE, I was very disappointed because the sound was often stuttering and Winuae was much more advanced in functionality and run flawlessly.
It is strange that I can play Amiga games much better on a PC with Windows that costed 1/3 of my XE!
I think if there is a goal to get more users in the future, then OS4 should be ported to PCs. Then everyone can buy cheap computers which are fast too and they have to worry less about the supply and quality.
I understand that it's not possible at the moment and a big task. So maybe it is better to choose the Mac Mini first as the next hardware platform. Hundreds of thousand have been sold and many Mac users are positive about the Amiga, so they might buy OS4 if the price is right.
But maybe they should name it HyperionOS4 before, because the Amiga name has received a bad reputation in the last years. Unfortunately, many won't realize that Hyperion is different from Amiga Inc if they only read "AmigaOS".

@JeffShepherd

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I don't think that McEwen is in the Amiga scene. He is employed by Kouri, but he has nothing to do with the scene. His work maybe involves managing the funds he gets from Kouri and reporting the sales from their gaming portal.

Regarding his personal bancruptcy, I think he stayed with Amiga Inc because he wasn't fired. He can't do much, but maybe his salary is ok? Maybe he doesn't find a find a better job because Amiga Inc ruined his CV? Mind you, many employers "screen" the former companies when a former CEO applies. There is enough dodgy stuffs about Amiga Inc why he might have difficulties finding a better job.

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Don't you think that someone with experience like Kouri would have already fired the incompetent team of Amiga Inc? Usually it happens very quickly for companies because there isnt much time if you make losses. Some big companies even have exchanged their CEO multiple times in a year!

Of course Kouri would have already fired them !!IF!! his intention was to generate profits with Amiga Inc. and make it to a worldwide leader of multimedia enabling technologies.

There are many companies that don't exist to make profits, but they exist for some other purposes. I will let you fill out the blanks, but a keyword is "taxes".

@joerg

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Well, I can see two reasons, although they are unrealistic, because I think they are not planning to release OS4 and hardware after they won (see my other post).
Nevertheless, one reason could still be that Amiga Inc or Kouri not only offered, but paid them money for it. The other reason would be that some developers might think that it's better to hand them over than to delete them. If Amiga Inc wins, they probably wont applaud to it, but maybe they think that at least there is a small chance that OS4 will ever be released by Amiga Inc. So their work will be of some use in the future and not for nothing.
I don't think that all developers are like bloodbrothers with Hyperion and will defend them to death. They like OS4 and their intention would be to do everything to make it survive. Deleting their work instead of giving it to Amiga Inc would not help their goal.

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I think that's a bit harsh, but you are entitled to your opinion of course. However, please respect that not all external OS4 developers might think like you.

Quote:Just like they promised to refund the money they owe to thousends of people from the PartyPack and ClubAmiga scams, not paying former employees like Bolton Peck although they were sentenced to pay by a court, the Kent arena sponsoring, etc.?
The OS4 developers might be mad because of still working on AmigaOS4 despite all problems, but we are not that stupid [/quote]

I know, I know, it's not very realistic, but I think Kouri HAS a lot of money. It only depends if he is willing to spend it or not. Nonody knows if the offer to the Friedens was true and honourable. Do you think a programmer would betray Hyperion by moving to another employer who offers more money or offers them special benefits? I dont think so.
But if you ask me, I wouldnt work for them, because I would fear that they would stop payment quickly. It happened before and there are lawsuits about this.

@Rogue
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Please excuse my ignorance (I also only know little about AmigaOS internals), but to me it seems like a good thing to move to the incompatible API better sooner than later.
Why? Because there isn't much OS4 software now. When OS4 is more popular in the future (after Hyperion has hopefully won the lawsuit), a break in compatibility will be more difficult and much more software would need to be rewritten.

@JeffShepherd

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That didn't anwer my question. If a company is completely unreliable, for example the Kent deal or the t-shirts, it usually doesn't matter to customers wether they have good intentions or not. Customers usually avoid these businesses.
The funny thing is, not only Amiga Inc has been unreliable, but also their announced hardware supplier ACK has been very unreliable.
The Amiga name has been in the mud for some time and it's very difficult to clean it. For example, one of the largest IT-website in Sweden has made a news some weeks ago about Amiga and the Kent deal. They said how unreliable they were and that they and ACK only managed to produce vaporware in the past.
Nearly all peoples have laughed about it and have been mocking about Amiga. Some have said that Amiga was great in the past, but that the peoples should finally realise that it's over. What is important though I think is that NONE of the people who read the article will probably ever buy an item from Amiga Inc or ACK because of their reputation.
Who cares about their intentions if they have never been reliable and if customers have to fear that no warranty is being honoured if they buy from them?

I don't think that their intention is to make new hardware with OS4 and I don't think their announcements with ACK are what they really intend to do.

Why? (all IMHO of course, not facts!)

a) They have announced the new hardware when they KNEW that they were filing a lawsuit. Yet, they announced the hardware for late Summer 2007. Even IF the lawsuit would have been decided in their favour quickly, which does not seem realistic when looking at the complexity of the case, they could have never supplied ACK hardware with OS4 in late Summer 2007.

b) Their announcement of new hardware supports their lawsuit. It should tell the lawyer "Hey, we really need OS4, because we want to release this hardware and everything is ready, otherwise a lot of money is lost because of Hyperion!"

c) If they really intended to release something, then they would actively CARE about their reputation AND the reputation of ACK. Both is in the dumbs. The negative attitude towards Amiga Inc and ACK is NOT the communities fault! It's the fault of the unreliability and bad behaviour of these companies.
WE are basically the only ones who might buy their products. They have done NOTHING to enhance the relationship to the communitiy in the past. That tells me, that there is no plan to sell something to us, otherwise they wouldnt be so careless about that.

d) They know very well that the goal of getting all pieces of OS4 together and release it with ACK hardware is unrealistic. It is unrealistic that they will get all the contracted work and ExecSG from the Friedens. They knew this, therefore it wasn't their goal, instead they wanted to do e)

e) After many failed plans and ventures with Amiga Inc, and after the death of AmigaDE due to bancrupcy of TAO, Pentti Kouri decided to sell the whole company. It isn't worth much, but what is their most valuable asset? Exactly, not their products, but their IP and their trademarks. If they can also say that they own an OS (OS4) they are much more valuable as if they say "Well, we have this Amiga trademark, a nice red-white coloured ball and cough cough these great and very advanced wordgames and that solitaire game over there.
The lawsuit is to clean up their attic. Other companies would be very negative about buying them, if there is an unclear situation with their trademarks or with the ownership of OS4.

@JeffShepherd

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Some peoples have suggested that it is because they want to polish up their intellectual properties and clean up their affilations in order to sell the whole company.
If you have a lot of binding contracts that are difficult to understand, nobody will be interested to buy the company.

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But the past shows that their intentions were never good! They haven't done anything good for the community. The Kent thing is one thing, the lawsuits and t-shirt and club memberships other examples.

Let's say there is a company that sells DVD-players and it has a history like Amiga Inc. Would you buy from them and say that they have good intentions? I can't believe it.

@joerg

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I see your point, but I said "VERY unsure" because I certainly cannot speak for all developers. I understand that you won't hand over your source code, but are you 100% sure of that for other developers?
You don't know how they will behave and how Amiga Inc will behave. Maybe they will offer them money, who knows, and then they will hand over the source code. Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is realistic, but it IS a small possibility. Therefore I said "VERY unsure".
Also about the Friedens. I don't know about their situation and I don't know if Amiga Inc is really interested in OS4, but let's say for a moment that they are, and they offer the Frieden's a lot of money to work for them. Do you really think they will say "no"?
Does it say somewhere that they will always work for Hyperion and never resign from them?

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Ok, if that would happen, then it would be "byebye OS4" I guess?

@xeron

That might be true, I am also not sure about what business they are trying to pursue. Everything they tried has failed, the Kent thing was another embarrasment.
I was never really excited about AmigaDE or AmigaAnywhere in the past, but at least it sounded like a product, although they didn't do much themselves.

Maybe a question linked to my first one is, will you take some consequences when something unfavourable happens (i.e. AI or Hyperion wins, depending on your opinion)? Will you leave the scene, or won't it affect you?

Some people say "I don't care about the companies, my AmigaOne is running, it works, so why should I stop using it?". I can understand this opinion. But there is also the question of motivation. Especially some developers have said that they will stop developing until the future of OS4 is more clear. Also very understandable. For some, the whole lawsuit affects the attitude of producing something. If there are no new users, only very few people will use the software they code, it's much nicer with a flourishing Amiga scene!

@keisangi

I don't agree with your opinion about anarchy and moderation. I am also not sure why you are complaining, because you knew everything when you registered here and agreed to the terms. Otherwise you can post on another black/green website without moderation. But I think they will laugh about you if you complain about OS4!

The only thing that I didn't like here in the past was when a post of mine was deleted, but I did not get any explanation or PM why this happened. A short explanation would have been good and would have helped me to understand what I did wrong, so that I can improve in the future. I was certainly not aware of doing anything against TOS when I posted.

@Billsey

Thanks for your opinion. I also think that the case will go on for a while and I think even with the best outcome, whatever that is, we won't see new hardware with OS4 before mid-2008. Maybe never.

I think if Amiga Inc wins, it is still VERY unsure if the developers hand over the source code. It's external code if I understand that correctly, so it is not binding to transfer it when reading the contract. So if they dont hand it over, then OS4 will look like Swiss cheese! Do you think that Amiga Inc will code everything themselves?
Also it's not clear that Hyperion will hand over the most recent code. Maybe they can say, "hey in 2003 we already completed everything required by the contract, so we only have to hand over the old code!".

What do others think? What will most likely happen if Amiga Inc "wins"?