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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just popping in
Just popping in

Pardon my more lengthy posts; I don't usually have the luxury of time to check the board/respond often. So when I do, I brain dump....

My opinion is that Firefox and its derivatives are not going to die out in any foreseeable future. Its user base is massive. Even if the rendering engine gets swapped out for, say, Webkit, the rest of the Firefox architecture and, more importantly, its entire ecosystem is just too well developed, and the end-product is just too good, and its install base is so large, that it's a very compelling/solid foundation to rest on.

With that in mind, the more I dig into things, the more compelling the case I see for a port of TenFourFox (with whatever upstream Firefox ESR they're using at a given time) for big-endian OS4/MorphOS; and, similarly, a port of that same upstream Firefox ESR version for little-endian AROS x86 / AROS on ARM.

I mention both the big- and little-endian ports of Firefox/TenFourFox because it would seem to me that the porting effort to both big-endian and little-endian Ami OS's would share a bunch in common. I stand to be very much corrected on that.

That is, if done correctly, I think we could first coordinate little-endian ports of any Firefox ESR release to AROS x86/AROS on ARM (as I imagine that's a bunch less less effort than the big-endian stuff); and then use the up-to-date knowledge from the little-endian port to help with the same-version TenFourFox port to big-endian Ami platforms.

As I think you can see, I love the idea of collaborating with the TenFourFox peeps; though I pose the question -- is a hardware Ami board/PC strictly necessary? I know that I, when I don my developer hat, greatly prefer emulation for test environments than physical hardware. I imagine other devs share that sentiment.

Additionally, I think the $ used for hardware would more beneficially go to a bounty.

On the topic of collaboration with TenFourFox's devs, I think we could also see some developer uptake if we think of things in reverse -- what if some of us could help with the upstream TenFourFox ports/supports for Mac. Then also potentially recruit the same help porting to big-endian Ami platforms?

Lastly, unless someone informs me differently, I think all of these issues with browser ports, whether Webkit-based/Firefox/TenFourFox/etc., still need someone to port at least a C++11 Standard Library (whether GNU's or other). Maybe even a C++14 Standard Library.

I pose all these thoughts/questions because I'm still firming up the picture in my skull as to how much I'd like/be able to contribute to the effort; either myself and/or donating some of my developers' time from one of my tech companies.

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just popping in
Just popping in

Thanks, all, for the welcome.

@Denlil: from what I read here and elsewhere, the first issue with Odyssey or any other Webkit browser is a missing port/lack of a big-endian C++11 Standard Library (specifically threads?).

Also, for the JS interpreter/JIT, the blockage is also a missing/lacking C++11/threading library but if I understand correctly, there are other issues in the big-endian porting of the Odyssey JS that are beyond just the C++11 library problem.

And, from what I've read, it looks like there are some people who've taken some runs at possible solutions -- whether looking at porting little-endian x86 AROS/Icaros/etc browsers, or perhaps a port of TenFourFox, or (very daringly but perhaps ideally) a complete
port of Chromium -- but nobody has completed the work.

Lastly, I'm a bit fuzzy on where any possible bounties landed on this issue, and the state of the source code on any such bounties.

If anyone has more insight I'd certainly welcome it.

I think a nice place for my brain to rest is.... just how much of the O/S's problems/lack of software do the followers of this thread believe could be solved simply with a proper big-endian port of a (GNU?) C++11 Standard Library?

On a similar note, does AROS/Icaros have similar issues given its endianness? I just don't yet know enough about the state of browser/other software on AROS.

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just popping in
Just popping in

Hi, all.

Pardon my newbie-ness here. Brand new to the community. So perhaps an intro is warranted.... I'm a very long time Amigan, with my brother and I starting with an A500 and then an A2000, A3000T complete with bridgeboard, and an A4000. Been a software developer and tech entrepreneur (and lawyer -- but the kind everyone actually wants to see!) for decades, on every hardware and O/S platform I could get exposed to.

Just got back into the Amiga world as I've not actually _enjoyed_ computers in decades. I figured it was time for a change. I own companies, so I've owned hundreds of PC's and Macs and almost-exclusively-Linux servers: fun-level? Near zero.

I mention all of this as I'm wondering where the bouncing boing ball is on the C++ 11 standard libraries/threads/etc. as I, too, believe that there are exactly 2 must-have/killer-apps needed for any platform nowadays. A fully functioning browser (with fast JS engine -- able to run the latest that Google Suite and O365 throw out there) and a fully functioning/MS Office compatible suite. From what I gather, the LibreOffice port is well underway (great!).

As an aside, I believe 64-bits is kind of an assumed for most, but actually used by only a few, in my experience -- so 32-bit everything is OK for now.

Back to the point...and I ask here because I can't seem to get a better/more recent answer anywhere else....is C++ Std Lib (including its full threads) the biggest hurdle to a great port of whatever browser?

If so, does anyone know the specific barrier to porting either libstdc++11 or libc++11? Or even later versions, while we're on that topic.

I'd like to see if I can help, eventually, once I clear some stuff off my plate.

Last point, does anyone know if Hyperion is tackling this very issue as they tackle LibreOffice porting?

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