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Re: The Memory Protection Debacle
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@abalaban

Don?t you think it?s easier to try to snoop inside data files of Simple Mail or YAM.

(NutsAboutAmiga)

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Re: What kind of programs would you like to see for Ami...
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@yoodoo2

The nice thing about Linux is that it contains Open Source drivers so we can write nice drivers based on those

(NutsAboutAmiga)

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Re: Oh dear! Is my A1 going up the spout? :-(
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@Rudei

Quote:

Hey guys,

As you may or may not know, I have a rather sexy looking AmigaOne XE.

It's not had a lot of use recently, but I decided to power up the other day and I think I've got a few issues.


Not you too

Quote:
Firstly, not so long ago, the machine decided to take ages to boot up - it boots the U-boot ok, loads kickstart and then takes ages to load the WB.


Sound like the Ethernet is taking too long.

Quote:
When I tried to defrag and use mediatoolbox, it crashed.


You should not need to do that.

Quote:
So I figured a rebuild was in order but couldn't be arsed so left it since the machine still booted and allowed for use of OS4 nicely.


Sound like should quick format and reinstall OS4.

Quote:
Now, the machine does not detect the keyboard or mouse - the machine boots as normal but U-boot complains about no keyboard


Are you using USB or PS2 ports?

Quote:
if I fiddle with the connection sometimes it works but I think there is something fundamentally wrong!


Sound like plug on then MB has come lose; maybe you should get some one whit some skills to look at it for you.

Quote:
The mouse does not work at all and the keyboard is never seen in OS4 now (i.e. it does not work.)


Do you have the same problem, when you boot from install CD?

Quote:
the fan sounds a bit crappy but always has done as it is original - I have not tried another kb as yet but wondered if anyone else had had this problem?


Yes right before my CPU stopped working.

Quote:
Is is a tell tale sign of HW failure or something else?


Yes bad CPU fan and a broken PS/2 mouse / keyboard connector.

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Re: The Catweasel floppy thread
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@Raziel

Quote:
Hmm, how do i unmount a driver safely?
assign DD0: dismount (?)
Does this also tell the device to stop polling?


I don?t think you can dismount it properly, or at least not safely

Quote:
(The clicking sound is as enerving as it ever was)


well thats how it detects disks

Quote:
And i assume that mounting two DD disks at the same time is
also not good? (i.e. PC DD and Amiga DD)


It?s safe because you have different types of filesystems so no problem there.

Quote:
I don't have a second drive here, just playing with one floppy.


Me too never test whit two floppy drives.

Quote:
Is there a way to incorporate the CW drivers as with the
A1Floppy.device? (Having two [three, four, five] devices on
screen - FD0, PC0 - but only one is readable?)


NO

(NutsAboutAmiga)

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Re: OS4 vs OS3.9
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@AmiGubbe

Quote:
OS4 doesnt support 680x0 processors. How compatible will the "emulation" be with old 680x0 software (f.i. Kick 2.0 -> ).


Way better then on AmigaOne, because you have custom chips and we do not.

Quote:
My PPC setup is 210mhz (I think) and I have 256 mb fastmem with Mediator and Voodoo3


You get PowerPC native drivers for all your hardware and you will get access to New PowerPC based programs that runs many times faster then on your old OS3.9, and because OS4.0 has minimal memory protection you should notice when dangers programs in your system, so you can avoid buggy programs that corrupts your system and crashes vital data.

I think you should not upgrade because of the 680x0 software, but because PowerPC software runs many times faster and more secure.
If develop software you should defiantly upgrade, the development tools in OS4 SDK is way better then OS3.9 NDK.

Quote:
Is it worth the trouble getting OS4 or should I wait until Amiga Inc. (or other developers) releases new hardware?


Well if no hardware is demonstrated whit OS4, then no hardware is demonstrated whit OS4, when they can show AmigaOS4 running on some new hardware then you buy it not before then, forget pre payments, in this market you get many broken promises, but some times dreams becomes reality.

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Re: The Catweasel floppy thread
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@Raziel

Well there is two version of the cw.device, the one you downloaded does not support auto detection of DD/HD,

The version I have for where long time, do support auto detection and MSDOS disk, but has serious memory corruption problem, which is way it?s not uploaded.
(Maybe because, it contains dynamic lists of blocks, and not static sized disk buffer)

Note most of the setting in your mount list is automatically quarried form the CW.device, I don't think you need Geometry information in the mount list at all,
(In the same way, as when you insert different sized USB sticks.)

(Surfaces, BlocksPerTrack, LowCyl, HighCyl, BlockSize)

Note if you mount HD and DD disk at the same time, you probably get conflicts when write to one of the devices, so don?t do that.


You should remove PH0, DH0 from your mount list !!
Only when you get newer version of CW.Device will high density formats be supported.

(NutsAboutAmiga)

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Re: The Memory Protection Debacle
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@Rogue

Quote:
the ability of the Mach kernel to run multiple OSes at the same time.


That sound where interesting, and I think it might be where useful, one thing I hope, is that OS4 Mach becomes more Amiga Exec like, and hope most parts of OS4, becomes ported to Amiga Exec mach, so what we get low IPC legacy as possible, I hope mach features be open for any one to use, for PPC VM?s

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Re: Whdload for OS4 on P5-cards?
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@Mufasa

Quote:

Mufasa wrote:
@LiveForIt

Quote:

My program is called WHDLoad just like the old 68k program, the only difference is instead of emulating anything, it writes a start-up script for the game in question and boot up AmigaDOS under E-UAE and then executes the game startup script and 68k version of WHDLoad.


I'm glad to hear it. So it seem there is no problems at all.
BTW: Where can I download this version of WHDLoad ?

I hope there is some instructions in how to use this version of WHDLoad aswell.


you find it on os4depot.net, ask me if you have problems.

I think this line are missing in startup-sequence:

makedir ram:t
assign t: ram:t


Edited by LiveForIt on 2008/2/15 18:37:06
(NutsAboutAmiga)

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Re: Whdload for OS4 on P5-cards?
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@Mufasa

Quote:
AGA chipset and a 68k CPU for WHDLoad installed games


Now you?re taking what E-UAE does.

A Classic Amiga does not need to emulate Chipsets, but it will require some smart MMU mappings maybe.

Quote:
And under "Icon Info" WHDLoad just has to be replaced with this tool. It may be difficult - but not impossible - to create.


I all ready wrote a tool like that?

My program is called WHDLoad just like the old 68k program, the only difference is instead of emulating anything, it writes a start-up script for the game in question and boot up AmigaDOS under E-UAE and then executes the game startup script and 68k version of WHDLoad.


Edited by LiveForIt on 2007/9/4 17:21:37
(NutsAboutAmiga)

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Re: The Memory Protection Debacle
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@Rogue

Quote:

Under AmigaOS, there is nothing like a superuser or Administrator, and no file is really protected by any means, so any malware started inadvertently by a user will have the fullest control over the system.


I agree the problem might be file access, if program x add it self to user-startup or startup-sequnce, what if it installs it self in wbstartup drawer or maybe the virus is Trojan, and infects common PowerPC files, maybe protection can be build in to DOS.library whit some restrictions on what program can do and can not do whit out user intervention.

Quote:
Just imagine an Amiga as a workstation at a public place (a university or a library), you certainly wouldn't want someone to impersonate you to get a book from a library and never return it.


Well any Windows computer where user does not logoff can be easily be miss used, and way the book record will probably be stored on password protected SQL severer, the security will probably depend on SQL client, if it uses SQL username and passwords or NT Password Service.

If it?s a Excel or CSV file then easily deleted whit simple script, for example a AREXX, python, AmigaDOS script you get from you e-mail, if e-mail program does not worn you that file you might contain a virus, and if virus is able to masquerade as picture or some else, then you might be easily infected


Edited by LiveForIt on 2007/9/4 18:59:27
(NutsAboutAmiga)

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Re: The Memory Protection Debacle
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@Jurassicc

Quote:

Jurassicc wrote:
@Rogue

Quote:

Given the ability of a single program on AmigaOS taking down the entire system, there is no doubt that this is an unacceptable state of affairs.


Agreed, not strictly related to MP. You mention malware etc that we may encounter in the future as the user base grows.
Will anything be done to automatically, without user intervention, protect kickstart modules / startup-sequences etc. Perhaps at the DOS level against malware.


I don?t think malware is best argument for MP, because most of viruses on Windows are in fact normal programs, and system friendly scripts, if malware comes we most start to think about virues killers, and how they can be integrated part of the OS code, for example is possible ban programs form starting?

And is it possible too to implement some kind control service that updates the list of known viruses.

The best argument for MP I think is to detect bugs, improve stability.

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Re: My uA1, is there still hope for it?
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@dIS_NLS


Quote:

*** Warning - bad CRC, using default environment
*** Warning - bad CRC, using default environmentF6A778 (FFF02778 tra7
*** Warning - bad CRC, using default environment19823d) 0FF9F7DC (FFF377DC tran
*** Warning - bad CRC, using default environment67f00


It looks like RAM problem, it looks where random, maybe RAM socket is come lose, have you tried to move the RAM to different socket?
Maybe you can try down clocking your RAM speed (and CPU speed), too see if that helps.

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Re: Whdload for OS4 on P5-cards?
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@Wepl

UAE whit interpreted emulation probably be tiny bit slow on classic system

On the other hand if is possible to use memory virtualization feature under OS4 to fake the memory map of classic system, then maybe UAE can run on top OS4 JIT emulation, just imagine the speed benefit, if you have stock 68020 CPU at 12 mhz, whit OS4 JIT most likely get 680X0 whit 50+ Mhz under emulation even on slow PowerPC 604, 200 Mhz PowerUP card.

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Re: The Memory Protection Debacle
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@whose

Quote:
pls read carefully... it won't have benefit if we didn't manage to earn more devloper's interest for the platform.


You know way, don?t get me answer that..

Quote:
This isn't possible yet, just because the development system is not even fully useable (latest SDK isn't there, gdb is more work to guess the failure than a help etc.).


Well that depends on where the application crashes, if need gdb you need compile whit ?ggdb flag

Gcc source.c ?o bin.exe ?ggdb

If you have many object files then need you most compile whit ?ggdb on every module.

Quote:
All I say is that we should concentrate right now on the OS/development system before we put useless efforts on theories that will possibly last another 5-6 years before they become reality.


Are you suggesting we should stop thinking about the future? Crazy talk

Quote:
It's all the same when such discussions emerge: Everybody is talking about fine "must have" features that are just a pancake on the top, if they will appear one day in the far future, but the flaws of the system that exist yet will be forgotten every time.


Some times you need alternatives to old flaws and we seeing improvements in OS for every update.

Quote:
Nobody is seriously using the possibilities AmigaOS bears right now.


I agree, mainly because developers are doing what they always did.

Quote:
Where are the really good games everybody wants to see?


You know way.

Quote:
Some SDL based efforts were made (ports), that's it. The often demanded development tools? Well, some half-finished ports, again. Very few AmigaOS only programs saw the light of the world until now.


You know way.

Quote:
OS4 is transformed to a never ending construction site, because lots of the new features and enhancements we just have don't get the attention they badly need because everybody is dreaming of things like MP and so on.


I think your right, developers should take some time reading some of PDF and new autodocs.

Quote:
What about AmigaInput? What about the USB subsystem? What about 2D/3D hardware acceleration? More SCSI drivers?


I managed to develop for AmigaInput, USB and PCI using the documents and freely available examples on OS4Depot, I have not looked at 3D yet, 2D stuff is not that complicated.

You should change some existing examples and asked for help, that?s how I did it.

Quote:
A real good debugger?


GDB and Grim works for me, I don?t know about you.

Quote:
More development documentation? I can ask the whole day on, there will be no satisfying answer.


We don?t need more development documents, we just need better documents, whit some good examples.

Quote:
I really know that there are not as much developers as needed, but to dream every day of new things to implement to the OS won't make the situation better.


So your complain about it because you think that's more helpful right

Quote:
All I ask is to start to use the things we have right now, polish them, make them more useful, expand them where it is badly needed (there are lots of fields to explore, polish and expand, believe me).


Well that depends, because some system modules depends on old flaws, and there for you stuck doing it the old way.

Quote:
we have enough time to implement e.g. MP half a year or a year later. AmigaOS cannot compete in the actual market in this half finished state it is in, regardless if it bears MP facilties or not. It could,


I think step in right direction, I think some once did say that ?Rome Was Not Built In One Day?, nor was any of the competing operating systems, those 5 years from 1994 to 1999, where nothing happened to the OS, all the other operating systems implemented MP and SMP support.

Quote:
even without MP, if it would be in a better state than it is yet.


I disagree, before MP the computer just crashed, you did not know what was the problem, now grim pop?s and tells me it crashed in function X, after being in function y.

Quote:
P.S.: I own a OS4 system and I'm quite happy with it as a user, but not as a developer. I don't like command line developing using e.g. vi or NotePad, abcshell and a command line gcc with make.


Buy GoldED, you really should install KingCon, because of all error messages GCC generates.

Quote:
We all know that there were gui driven development tools in the past (and they weren't such bad as was said again and again)


Come on you say you?re a developer and you think its important, then please start working on it right now.

Quote:
and that other platforms have these tools for years now. But for AmigaOS such tools are simply not possible,


Its possible to make some GUI that generate source-code if that?s what your asking for, but to edit source-code not created under that tool won?t work, most likely.

If you ever have looked at MUI or reaction, you probably notice that it?s where XML like; think that?s way feeling is using XML.

Quote:
because lots of people don't see the point and keep on dreaming about things they don't need that urgently.


Funny your blaming it on those that don?t need this tools

I don?t think we need GUI driven tools urgently, but you?re welcome to write your own.


Edited by LiveForIt on 2007/9/3 16:25:04
(NutsAboutAmiga)

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Re: The Memory Protection Debacle
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@Atheist

Quote:

Atheist wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I still didn't really get an answer to my question, so I'll start with one only.


IF only resource tracking was implemented in AOS4.0, would all, or some, or none of the old Amiga 1.0 to 3.9 and 4.0 SW break?


i don't think, rosorcre tracking will not break old software.

smp support and memory protection will break old software, and only solution is to run an older os version in parallel in a virtual environment, as transparent as possible.

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Re: The Memory Protection Debacle
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@whose

you are making the mistake thinking there are 1000+ coders working full time on writing software for amigaos, i tell you what we are mostly part time develpers working on the week ends.

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Re: AmiTV 0.4 (CX2388X and Bt8x8)
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@Spirantho

now i own wintv hvr 1300, now i only need my cpu back.

(NutsAboutAmiga)

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Re: The Memory Protection Debacle
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@tonyw

i don't wonto find out how memory layout of process is, i just wonto to use my own, i think i need it for native cpu support in a vm.

there is few wm out there that might be usefull to oss.

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Re: There is hope for OS4 on the Classic.
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@Rogue

I remember heaving a bit of a problem installing OS3.5 a few years back.

I think it?s smart to include a boot floppy whit OS4? hurray for floppy disk

They are so cool 880kb how needs 720k disks

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Re: Cyberstorm PPC - PPC dead
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@Raziel

Well the question is if you can get RHoS chips that are pin compatible now days, or maybe there a stock of old once some where.

I think DCE used to repair old PowerPC cards; you better send a e-mail and ask

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