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Re: 68k application in OS4Depot? No!
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Posted on: 2007/12/7 19:36
#2341
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Home away from home 
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I think that the author of Ignition would be more than happy to make an OS4 native version (given that he says that's planned on his website). Hopefully he's got a PowerPC classic machine so that he can do this.
Hans
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Re: OpenGL on OS4?
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Posted on: 2007/12/4 21:30
#2342
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Home away from home
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@tfrieden
Will Cairo become the official replacement 2D API (as in the API that gadgets use)? Or just another toolkit that applications can use? I'm just curious as to what the plans are for 2D.
Cairo's OpenGL backend is via glitz, which appears to need a minimum of OpenGL v1.2. Obviously some features require higher versions and/or extensions, but it might be possible for glitz to work with MiniGL.
Hans
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Re: OpenGL on OS4?
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Posted on: 2007/11/30 20:05
#2343
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Home away from home
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@Snuffy Quote:
Snuffy wrote:
Hi @Hans
You're pretty-much right about OpenGL and MiniGL. MiniGL is simply a cut-down implementation of OpenGL. It supports some of the OpenGL API, but not all. If a program written using OpenGL only uses features that MiniGL has, it can run via MiniGL without problems. We're going to have to live with MiniGL for now.
We'll try! I ran this miniGL demo - Stars of Nukleus and looks real good in the gfx, but the sound is kind of crappy. Is the sound function a part of demo construction and nothing to do with miniGL?
That particular demo sounds fine most of the time on my machine. Sound has nothing to do with MiniGL. However, Warp3D's driver system has to pull some tricks including hardware locking. The hardware locking can cause trouble with other parts of the system, for example, causing the audio thread to not pass data to the sound-card fast enough, resulting in audio stuttering. I managed to reduce it somewhat, but I can't eliminate it. Actually, if a programmer uses the automatic locking setting in MiniGL rather than the smart-lock, no audio stuttering should occur, but the 3D graphics performance will drop like a rock (it's locking unlocking 3D hardware every primitive that it draws). My one advice is for people to have Interrupt=yes set in their monitor's tooltypes as it reduces this issue. Unfortunately some people's graphics cards don't work in that mode. Unless someone has some fancy little trick that I haven't thought of, this problem is not going to disappear until Rogue and the OS4 dev team have the new graphics system done. Hans
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Re: OpenGL on OS4?
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Posted on: 2007/11/29 17:08
#2344
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Home away from home
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@Rogue
Yes I've looked at the driver code, both in MESA & in DRI, and it's sizeable. There's also the Gallium3D driver system which is supposed to be cross-platform. I have no idea how advanced that is, but it looks promising. In particular they claim that it will make drivers smaller and simpler; that sounds like a good thing.
Hans
EDIT: Actually, Gallium3D looks set to become the official HW driver subsystem of MESA. I've had a look at its architecture, and it looks like you'll only have to write the OS abstraction layer once, and a GPU-specific drm module; the core driver itself is platform independent. Having a common OS abstraction module should reduce the coding burden somewhat.
Edited by Hans on 2007/11/29 17:36:04
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Re: OpenGL on OS4?
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Posted on: 2007/11/29 15:32
#2345
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Home away from home
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@Rogue
That's probably the clearest explanation of what needs to be done. Hopefully AMD will release the Radeon 500+ GPU specifications as promised over the next 6 months or so. Their AtomBIOS looks like it will allow 2D support for pretty much every new graphics card they produce from now on. The 3D drivers, on the other hand, will probably be more work.
Out of curiosity, could part of the MESA GPU driver API be used? Obviously the underlying hardware APIs are different, but the MESA->driver API should be usable as-is. Or is there something that they do that's tailored to the Linux way of doing things?
Hans
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Re: OpenGL on OS4?
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Posted on: 2007/11/28 22:53
#2346
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Home away from home
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@Elwood Quote:
Elwood wrote:
@Hans
Is it possible to have a rough idea of the difference between both needed efforts? Does OpenGL need twice time than MiniGL? 5 times?
Thanks.
No idea really, but the difference is quite large. Updating MiniGL would require a major update to Warp3D in order to support new features such as shading. Added to that the existing code-base supports a subset of OpenGL v1.4. So you're talking about updating an old code-base with a handful of people working in their spare time. It's always going to lag behind the current state of the art. Also, you're still hampered by limitations caused by the current graphics-system (a.k.a. Picasso96). The one advantage would be that you'd see more regular updates, instead of a long wait and then one big giant leap with a HW accelerated MESA port. Contrast this with porting MESA. It's got a large code base that's (AFAIK) up to date with the current OpenGL specification; it has a large team of people; and it has existing hardware driver APIs that could probably be used. It makes sense to take advantage of the large code-base and development team. Most importantly, once the port is done, we'll be completely up-to-date in one step, and should remain there, courtesy of the MESA team. If you ask Rogue, he'll tell you that they want to replace the graphics system with a new one that supports 3D hardware properly, and port MESA. It's going to take time though. In the meantime, a few others and myself are updating MiniGL a bit to add support for a few more OpenGL functions. Hopefully this will give people something to play with until the MESA port arrives. Hans
Edited by Hans on 2007/11/29 0:51:03
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Re: OpenGL on OS4?
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Posted on: 2007/11/28 22:28
#2347
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Home away from home
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@Elwood Quote:
Elwood wrote:
@Samurai_Crow
Quote:MiniGL on the Quake series is not necessary on WINDOWS because the graphics cards manufacturers supply OpenGL drivers for them.
Hum, we won't have any gfx driver delivered by the manufacturer anytime soon so be it MiniGL or whatever it's the same.
Just to be sure I understand what OpenGL is, tell me if I'm wrong. It's an API, i.e you write in your code glClear(). This function existing in your gfx card driver will produce the result on screen, right?
So we could have either OpenGL glClear() => gfx driver or MiniGL glClear() => gfx driver, right?
In this case, I would prefer to see OpenGL, a widely used API, on OS4 instead of MiniGL.
Also note this:
Quote:SGI is in the process of modifying its licensing programs to adapt to the release of the OpenGL Sample Implementation (S.I.) under an open source license
@Rogue
I never meant it was you alone that should do it 
You're pretty-much right about OpenGL and MiniGL. MiniGL is simply a cut-down implementation of OpenGL. It supports some of the OpenGL API, but not all. If a program written using OpenGL only uses features that MiniGL has, it can run via MiniGL without problems. We're going to have to live with MiniGL for now. Hans
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Re: Hehe, What A Surprise
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Posted on: 2007/11/25 19:52
#2348
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Home away from home
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@afxgroup Quote:
afxgroup wrote:
@Hans
Shut up and come back to minigl! i want a port of buccaneers soon! :)
So do I, but they're using the Torque Engine Advanced which is DirectX only.  Also, it requires shaders, so you should really be cracking that whip at the Friedens for that MESA port.  Hans
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Re: Hehe, What A Surprise
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Posted on: 2007/11/25 16:23
#2349
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Home away from home
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@xeron Quote:
xeron wrote:
@Hans
But games don't have to make sense. I wouldn't be any more inclined to buy one than the other. Actually, thinking about it, i'd be marginally more inclined to buy Space Giraffe than the boat game because from the screenshots it looks like its probably quite a frenetic action game, whereas the boat game looks like its probably slow and boring.
For most people they do have to make sense, which is why Space Giraffe is a tiny niche product. In my eyes, the screenshots didn't look frenetic at all. It just looked like a strange confusing mess with an overuse of glow effects that annoys me. The other game was the first Indy-game (like Space Giraffe) that I could think of, as I'd stumbled across it recently. The screenshots seem to miss the bit where you go round blowing things up. I'd be more likely to try that one. Hans
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Re: Hehe, What A Surprise
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Posted on: 2007/11/25 0:41
#2350
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Home away from home
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@xeron Quote:
xeron wrote:
@Hans
Actually, neither of those games look even vaguely interesting to me.
The second one's screenshots don't make any more sense to you? I didn't ask about how interesting they were; I'm commenting on the fact that his game's screenshots make no sense. Hans
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Re: Hehe, What A Surprise
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Posted on: 2007/11/25 0:22
#2351
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Home away from home
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@Atheist Well the screenshots from his Space Giraffe game make absolutely no sense. The weirdness of it all may well put a lot of people off. compare these screenshots from Space Giraffe with these screenshots from "Buccaneer - The Quest for Infamy" and tell me which one looks more appealing. Hans
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Re: New browser coming up (AROS)
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Posted on: 2007/11/19 20:26
#2352
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Home away from home
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@afxgroup Quote:
afxgroup wrote:
@Raziel
There is no *NATIVE* (aka MUI code) code in that arkive and the webkit parts is empty.. there is only the static library......
also for some minor libs...
that code is useless...
Actually, there is some "native" MorphOS code in the deps directory. Just do a search for MorphOS. Hans
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Re: DHCP IP Address?
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Posted on: 2007/11/15 21:48
#2353
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Home away from home
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@Mikey_C
There really should be a tool or a docky that displays this. Added to that, the internet prefs should probably also display this information (AFAIK, it doesn't yet).
Hans
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Re: New browser coming up (AROS)
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Posted on: 2007/11/12 18:28
#2354
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Home away from home
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@Raziel Quote:
Raziel wrote:
@Hans
Quote:
However, the source-code is available, but no-one appears to have started work on integrating it with AWeb.
Care to share a link to the source?
I can give it to the AWeb dev list and see if someone is interested?
Sure, it's on the Sputnik website ( direct link). Quote:
Quote:
I'm guessing that the AROS port will be based on Sputnik's Webcore port.
Hmm, that maybe can only the porter answer, but from what i understand is
Quote:
from Marciks KHTML page:
This isn't a direct port of KHTML from KDE, but is based on browser for S60 devices by Nokia (which is in turn based on WebCore, by Apple Inc.), which is based on KHTML from KDE
Marcik took the source from the S60 branch whereas Robert N will use the Webkit/Core branch with is a branch from the original KHTML
Slightly different and confusing, isn't it?
But the S60 Webkit is itself based on the Webkit you mention, which is based on Webcore, which is based on KHTML. The guy porting it is free to do what he wants, but if I were in his position, I'd take advantage of the porting already done by the Sputnik author. Hans
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Re: New browser coming up (AROS)
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Posted on: 2007/11/12 17:56
#2355
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Home away from home
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@Raziel
AWeb is open-source, and it's new version was supposed to use Webcore as well. Their plan was to take the MorphOS port of Webcore done by the Sputnik developer and use it in AWeb. However, the source-code is available, but no-one appears to have started work on integrating it with AWeb.
I'm guessing that the AROS port will be based on Sputnik's Webcore port.
BTW, does it really matter if Sputnik is partially closed-source? If he makes an OS4 port, we can use it.
Hans
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Re: New browser coming up (AROS)
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Posted on: 2007/11/12 16:38
#2356
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Home away from home
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@Raziel
IIRC, Sputnik is based on Webcore as well, and that is supposed to be ported to OS4 some time.
Hans
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Re: Visiting The Telegraph on an Amiga - web stats
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Posted on: 2007/11/11 2:18
#2357
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Home away from home
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@Chris We can always increase those stats. Hans
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Re: Progress of Cinnamon Writer
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Posted on: 2007/11/10 20:31
#2358
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Home away from home
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@lazi
Talking about IFF, it would be nice to have an updated version, with 64-bit size fields, and possibly attributes. IFF file parsing is much easier than XML and the files are more compact.
Hans
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Re: Progress of Cinnamon Writer
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Posted on: 2007/11/10 18:23
#2359
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Home away from home
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@desler Quote:
desler wrote:
Comments are welcome :)
Looking forward to trying the new version (when it's released). Hans
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Re: PPC games on OS4, please help
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Posted on: 2007/11/6 1:46
#2360
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Home away from home
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@joerg Quote:
joerg wrote:
@AmiKit
Quote:Btw. what about Shogo? No go? Anyone?
I'm working on MiniGL at the moment, and there was a bug in the quad-strip rendering routines causing only the first quad to be rendered under certain circumstances (when lighting is switched on). This is probably what was causing those errors. I've fixed these. Are there any other graphics bugs that you're aware of in MiniGL games? Hans
Edited by Hans on 2007/11/6 2:18:40
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