Forums - All Posts - The Amigans website

Forum Index

Board index » All Posts (TetiSoft)

Bottom

« 1 (2) 3 4 5 ... 8 »

TetiSoft

Re: Some questions regarding OS4 for Classic Amigas

Posted on: 2007/10/29 18:23 #21

Just popping in

@GrumpyOldMan

Quote:

My GT7000 arrived with an Adaptec SCSI card, should have it
somewhere - any chance for support for it? They are more
common (and cheaper) than LSI-based cards.

The driver is for LSI, NCR and Symbios Logic 53Cxxx chips.
The PCI SCSI boards with those chips are the cheapest
which I could find at www.alternate.de, cheaper than
Adaptec (of course not cheaper than a board which you already own).
On EBay there also exist lots of such cards, and it looks
as if only few buyers are interested in them.

Topic | Forum

TetiSoft

Re: Some questions regarding OS4 for Classic Amigas

Posted on: 2007/10/29 15:50 #22

Just popping in

@Swoop

Quote:

SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC-

My understanding is that the only way to use a scanner on
OS4 is via scsi, because of the lack of (as of yet)
a USBscanner.device. I have an expensive (at the time I
bought it) Epson GT-9500 scanner which has both parallel
and scsi connectors. At the moment I use this on my A1200
using the parallel port, and a special cable.
Can I actually use this on my A1, via either the parallel,
or the scsi connector?

The documentation for the AOne SCSI driver (lsi53c8xx.device)
which can be found on os4depot.net as part of an (old)
ide_driverpack.zip archive and on the OS4Final CD for A1
says that the driver was tested with an Epson GT7000 scanner.

Topic | Forum

TetiSoft

Re: Some questions regarding OS4 for Classic Amigas

Posted on: 2007/10/28 16:30 #23

Just popping in

@R-TEAM

Quote:

I pray for ancient UW2SCSI cards [the chipset that is
already in the limmited 8bit SCSI1 mode supportet ..
dont remember the name]

The AOne lsi53c8xx.device SCSI driver supports
LSI/NCR/SYM53Cxxx SCSI boards. It requires fully
working PCI DMA. There exists no PCI board for classic
Amigas with fully working DMA. Ask the manufacturer of
your PCI daughterboard for working DMA, eventually for
support for 3.3V-only PCI boards (which would allow using
a PCI IDE/SATA/PATA board too which would give you access
to cheap *and* fast drives working with DMA), and
eventually for an OS4 driver for PCI SCSI boards which
supports faster transfer modes, while you are at it.

IMHO you wont find a developer which writes you a driver
for non-existing hardware, and there doesnt exist a PCI
daughterboard for a classic Amiga which supports DMA. Sorry.
You need an AOne or a CSPPC when you want to use SCSI with OS4.

Topic | Forum

TetiSoft

Re: Some questions regarding OS4 for Classic Amigas

Posted on: 2007/10/28 1:19 #24

Just popping in

@TMTisFree

Quote:

Really, you see me open the case to connect/disconnect
the scanner and the DVD drive each time I need/do not need them?

The CSPPC manual recommends to attach non-ultrawide SCSI
devices to the motherboard SCSI port to avoid slowing down
the CSPPC UWSCSI to Fast-SCSI2 speed. I'm not an expert
in UWSCSI so I googled a bit but could not find an explanation
for this described behaviour. Its IMHO logical that the
SCSI bus frequency has to be reduced when talking to a
slow SCSI device, but why has that to happen permanently
and not only when needed?

Or in other words an external switched off(!) scanner
should IMHO not affect the speed on the UW part of the
SCSI bus, and eventually a switched on DVD-RAM does only
affect the bus speed when its used (which may happen
every few seconds when the filesystem checks for a disk
change). Please correct me when I'm wrong.

You could also boot an OS3 installation to use the scanner
on the motherboard SCSI port when you dont need the scanner
very often.

BTW, even when the CSPPC has a theoretical maximum speed
of 40 MB/sec and you would really reduce that by attaching all
your SCSI equipment, its IMHO possible that OS4 will
be faster than OS3. Raw bus transfer speed is not
everything, CPU and OS speed are important too.

Topic | Forum

TetiSoft

Re: Some questions regarding OS4 for Classic Amigas

Posted on: 2007/10/28 0:13 #25

Just popping in

@TMTisFree

Quote:

And then, how I use the SCSI DVD(-RAM)/scanner?

You can attach it to the CSPPC when you want to use it.
When you dont want to attach it there you cant use it.
Quote:

Is the mk68 scsi.device supported/emulated under OS4?

The A1200/A4000/A4000T IDE versions of scsi.device, yes.
The A3000/A4000T SCSI versions of scsi.device dont work.
If the A600 IDE version works cant be tested so it wont be
included

Topic | Forum

TetiSoft

Re: Some questions regarding OS4 for Classic Amigas

Posted on: 2007/10/28 0:00 #26

Just popping in

@TMTisFree

Quote:

Last time I tried (update3), the printer was not recognized
(was working with TurboPrint). Will retry with Final.

There exist different protocol flavours for USB printers.
usbprinter.device supports the unidirectional and bidirectional
variants but not the vendor specific and IEEE 1284.4 variants.
IIRC the latest published version does not refuse to use
unsupported variants (but it doesnt work of course),
the current version writes an error message into T:USB.log.

My old Canon S400 works with usbprinter.device,
parallel.device, pit.device (parallel port of the
MultiFaceCardIII), a1parallel,device, envoyprint.device
and lpr.device here, with TurboPrint.

Topic | Forum

TetiSoft

Re: Some questions regarding OS4 for Classic Amigas

Posted on: 2007/10/27 23:48 #27

Just popping in

@TMTisFree

Quote:

How many millions was it spend for developping an OS to about 1000 persons?

You know in advance how much copies will be sold?
Interesting. Then we can close this thread which was
thought to tell interested people which features/drivers
are present which could eventually change the number
of copies.

To answer your question, I dont know how many millions
the other developers will earn, I only know my own contract.
AFAIK it was made public in the AI vs Hyperion court
documents, maybe somebody can post the URL so you can
verify if I'll be rich next month or not.

Quote:

I understand you probably have to create a driver de novo
for the BPPC SCSI but for the 3000T/A4000T, it was included
with OS3.1, so you have its source I presume?

The A3k/A4kT SCSI driver sources exist, yes, unfortunately
the binaries dont work, the reason is unknown (IIRC we
excluded known possible reasons and created a non-DMA
driver but this didnt work). And until today I assumed
nobody would really need an A3k/A4kT SCSI driver for OS4
just because the only possibility to run OS4 on A3k/A4kT
is to install a CSPPC which has a supported UWSCSI port
which is faster anyway.

Topic | Forum

TetiSoft

Re: Some questions regarding OS4 for Classic Amigas

Posted on: 2007/10/27 23:21 #28

Just popping in

@TMTisFree

Quote:

My archaic SCSI equipment (SCSI scanner, SCSI DVD-RAM,
U320 HDDs) are running reliably, so, really, I don't see
why I should change them.

You are allowed to use the CSPPC UWSCSI port to use your SCSI equipment.
But its your decision of course.
Quote:

The typical computer user has an OS with support for USB scanner and printer.

The typical OS4 user has an OS which includes DEVS:usbprinter.device
and waits if somebody writes a DEVS:usbscanner.device or not,
some scanners work without any scan software.

Topic | Forum

TetiSoft

Re: Some questions regarding OS4 for Classic Amigas

Posted on: 2007/10/27 23:06 #29

Just popping in

@TMTisFree

> > > > the A3k/A4kT onboard SCSI are not supported.
> > > So, how do you expect I install OS4 then?
> > > I have only SCSI/SATA CD/DVD drives and I certainly don't
> > > want to buy a crappy/slow IDE thing now because I never did.
> > What about attaching your SCSI equipment to the CSPPC
> > UWSCSI controller instead of the A3k/A4kT onboard SCSI
> > controller?
> And thus killing the only advantage of using UWSCSI, speed? No thank you. But good try.
You could copy the OS4 install CD to a harddrive partition
when you dont want to attach a CD/DVD drive to either the motherboard
IDE port or the CSPPC UWSCSI port. The OS4 installation
process uses the volume name to access the install CD so
this should work without problem IMHO.

Topic | Forum

TetiSoft

Re: Some questions regarding OS4 for Classic Amigas

Posted on: 2007/10/27 22:49 #30

Just popping in

@Jurassicc

Quote:

Quote:

A SCSI flatbed scanner is archaic equipment.
The typical computer user has an all-in-one printer/scanner
with integrated USB card reader for less than 100 Euro.
OS4 supports reading from USB cards, when you dont have
USB equipment, you could use an IDE or PCMCIA card reader.

Agreed. However, If the A1200 user want to Scan using usb then dont they need to spend a quite a bit money ?

I see at this:-

?93 for a Subway with poseidon 2.X (AmigaKit) + Shipping
?20 for Scanquix USB (Vesalia) + Shipping
?10 for a poseidon 3.X OEM keyfile upgrade

Can you buy FXSCAN any more for the IOUSB scanner module ? I don't think you can.

?123 Euros + shipping before you begin to source a usb scanner.

Sorry, my explanation was incomplete. Here is the missing part:

You dont need any scan software to use some USB
printer/scanner combos which include a card reader/writer.
The scanner scans into a JPEG file on the card and the card
appears as a volume on Workbench...

You may be able to use an IDE or PCMCIA card reader which is
cheaper than an USB card for a classic Amiga, and many users
may not need USB to read a card when their home network
includes a second machine with card reader and Samba.

Topic | Forum

TetiSoft

Re: Some questions regarding OS4 for Classic Amigas

Posted on: 2007/10/27 22:29 #31

Just popping in

@TMTisFree

Quote:

Quote:

the A3k/A4kT onboard SCSI are not supported.

So, how do you expect I install OS4 then?
I have only SCSI/SATA CD/DVD drives and I certainly don't
want to buy a crappy/slow IDE thing now because I never did.

What about attaching your SCSI equipment to the CSPPC
UWSCSI controller instead of the A3k/A4kT onboard SCSI
controller?

Topic | Forum

TetiSoft

Re: Some questions regarding OS4 for Classic Amigas

Posted on: 2007/10/27 10:40 #32

Just popping in

@R-TEAM

Quote:

But in the OS4 Dev group [this is my sense] the opinion
that SCSI is useless and dont important for OS4 over hand wins.

Thats your personal opinion.
My personal opinion is that SCSI is dead (for the home desktop).
The typical home desktop machine has SATA which is faster,
cheaper, and supports DMA too.

Quote:

This is from my view a bad evolution ....
Without SCSI on my next Amiga [OS4 based] .. it will no Amiga anymore
for me.

Do I want to sell you hardware? No? Do I forbid you to buy
a CSPPC or a PCI SCSI card for AOne? No? So why are you
complaining?

Quote:

And please dont come with "cheap" IDE drives ..
If i like cheap . i realy dont buy any OS4 HW !

Its not my fault when you missed to buy an AOne which
offers you SATA and when you missed to buy a CSPPC which
offers you UWSCSI. A cheap IDE drive is the perfect
storage device for a cheap A1200.

Quote:

For the user that connect to here expansive 1000$ Amiga a 80$
IDE drive and is Happy is this no problem ...

The IDE drive is below 40 Euro. For 80 Euro you get the
IDE drive plus the ATAPI DVD drive! How many thousands
of Euros do you wanna spend for a developer that writes
you an OS4 BPPC SCSI driver? I bet that an AOne or a CSPPC
are cheaper than a fair developer payment.

Quote:

I would a NEW HW with the ability to connect
an SCSI card to it and USE it.

There exists ZERO new hardware for OS4 ATM,
thats a known fact we discuss here since years,
this thread is about OS4 for OLD classic hardware,
please start a new thread about new hardware for
OS4 plus SCSI, I'd bet the majority of users would
prefer SATA/PATA/USB2/FireWire over SCSI anytime,
but maybe AInc will grant you or your preferred
hardware manufacturer a license for new OS4 compatible
hardware with SCSI support?

We try to tell you which hardware is supported by OS4
for classic machines and you complain about non-existing
hardware. Thats pretty much OFF-TOPIC here IMHO.

Topic | Forum

TetiSoft

Re: Some questions regarding OS4 for Classic Amigas

Posted on: 2007/10/27 10:01 #33

Just popping in

@GrumpyOldMan

Quote:

For me it means that every time I want to use my SCSI
flatbed scanner with ImageFX or use my SCSI hard disks
for video recording with VHI Studio, I have to boot into
AmigaOS 3.9. I would like to go all OS4, but it seems
impossible now.

I already suggested to replace your old SCSI equipment
with cheap new standard PC equipment which may eventually
be usable with more than one machine.

Quote:

Not true, as this thread shows there are also power users
using BPPC SCSI.

So many that it makes sense to let the others wait a few
years more for OS4 until finally somebody has written
a working BPPC SCSI driver? IMHO the majority of users
waited long enough, it was decided that OS4 for classics
will be released soon, you are not forced to buy it
immediately, but you wont get a guarantee that unsupported
hardware will be suppported in future so that it makes
sense to wait some more years.

Quote:

How about other SCSI devices like flatbed scanners?

A SCSI flatbed scanner is archaic equipment.
The typical computer user has an all-in-one printer/scanner
with integrated USB card reader for less than 100 Euro.
OS4 supports reading from USB cards, when you dont have
USB equipment, you could use an IDE or PCMCIA card reader.

Topic | Forum

TetiSoft

Re: Some questions regarding OS4 for Classic Amigas

Posted on: 2007/10/27 0:17 #34

Just popping in

@R-TEAM

Quote:

I dont reffering to the CS-PPC-UW/SCSI controler ..
I was thinking of a NEW HW with an PCI-66 slot for
an good UW2-SCSI controler with the chip that is always
supportet on AOne OS4.
But it use only 8bit SCSI-1 transfer.

This was the point i refering.

Then you didnt make that point very clear in your last
posts IMHO.

In theory you can eventually use the existing SCSI
driver for the AOne (which IIRC can be found on os4depot.net)
with a PCI board for a classic Amiga, but in practice the
PCI SCSI cards with the supported chips dont work in
the classic PCI boards which dont support 3.3Volt-only PCI
cards, only 5Volt PCI cards.

When you want a PCI-66 slot for your classic Amiga,
ask a hardware manufacturer. Hyperion and the OS4
developers are software developers. I'm not a hardware
expert but would PCI-66 in a classic make any sense?
It has to be converted to Zorro which is too slow for it?

Topic | Forum

TetiSoft

Re: Some questions regarding OS4 for Classic Amigas

Posted on: 2007/10/26 23:59 #35

Just popping in

@R-TEAM

Quote:

>I think SCSI support is imortant to people who have
>invested time and money in their SCSI setup.

AND for Power user that dont need IDE [SATA IS IDE only
on a serial line] and like the proffesional way ..

I dont buy a very expansive OS4 MoBo and then i musst stuck with
simple IDE ...

Well, you just confirmed that the BPPC SCSI support is
not that much important because the power users with
expensive (when it was bought) SCSI equipment dont use
an A1200 anyway.

Of course BPPC SCSI support would be nice, but the fact
that its missing is IMHO just annoying, not a real showstopper.
The remaining classic power users have CSPPC SCSI and
that is supported. When you have to replace your existing
A1200 SCSI drives with IDE versions, a brand new IDE
harddisk plus an ATAPI DVD drive from www.alternate.de are
together(!) cheaper than 80 Euro...

Topic | Forum

TetiSoft

Re: Some questions regarding OS4 for Classic Amigas

Posted on: 2007/10/26 23:27 #36

Just popping in

@R-TEAM

Quote:

I REALY dont see SCSI as a "..dead standard nowadays.." !

For the "normal" PC user it is without sense- this is right.
But this was alltimes so ....

Some years ago the advertisements of computer shops
in computer magazines still offered SCSI hardware
(which was slightly more expensive than IDE hardware).
Today you wont find any SCSI equipment in the average
advertisement anymore. "Its dead Jim." Yes, I too liked it
more than IDE in the past. Rest in peace.

Quote:

I have here a good SCSI system on my A4k/060 with Cyberstorm MK-III
UW-SCSI controler and i DONT buy a new OS4 machine without good
SCSI drivers !

The UW-SCSI on the CSPPC is supported by a PPC native driver
in OS4. The BPPC SCSI module and the A3k/A4kT onboard SCSI
are not supported.

Topic | Forum

TetiSoft

Re: Bl***y Amiga OS4. :-)

Posted on: 2007/10/26 21:08 #37

Just popping in

@joerg

Quote:

All m68k file systems should work on OS4, unless they
require an obsolete BCPL startup method, but for file
systems which can be installed in a RDB that's not the case.

I can confirm that AmiCDFS V2.38 in the RDB is still able
to read my old ShapeShifter partition, I can even boot
OS4 into it (without S-S of course). And XFSD can still
read three logical PC partitions with the proper mountlists
here. However, FAT95 always crashed under OS4 when I tried
to use it. Oh, and CacheCDFS still works too, I use it for
mounting .iso files.

Topic | Forum

TetiSoft

Re: Some questions regarding OS4 for Classic Amigas

Posted on: 2007/10/26 17:35 #38

Just popping in

@thread

Correcting myself:
Quote:

I dont know if using Poseidon and its Spider driver would work.

In the meantime I found that a Spider is a PCI USB EHCI/OHCI
card, not a Zorro board, ergo it cant work with OS4 on a
classic machine because UHCI/OHCI/EHCI cards require working DMA
and there exists no classic PCI board which has working
DMA (from PCI to main memory).

Topic | Forum

TetiSoft

Re: Some questions regarding OS4 for Classic Amigas

Posted on: 2007/10/26 12:57 #39

Just popping in

@samwel

Quote:

I guess it was Stephane who did the CSPPC driver?

Three developers worked on the CSPPC driver, not Stephane.
Quote:

If someone got him hardware, would he be willing to
do the driver?

Just ask him.
Quote:

IMO that driver is quite important for the A1200.. All other
options are really slow..

I disagree. The BPPC SCSI board is not as fast as the CSPPC
UWSCSI anyway, and IMHO many people are overestimating raw
disk speed. In daily usage it doesnt matter that much
if your drive reads 2.5 MB/s (IDE PIO0, SCSISpeed just
reported that for my A4k IDE drive in OS4) or 5MB/s
(IDE PIO something or SCSI non-sync) or 10MB/s (SCSI sync),
you need a stopwatch to find out if the machine boots faster
or loads application X faster, you dont notice much
difference without a stopwatch or a benchmark test.
Corrections welcome...

Topic | Forum

TetiSoft

Re: Some questions regarding OS4 for Classic Amigas

Posted on: 2007/10/26 11:19 #40

Just popping in

@GrumpyOldMan

Quote:

First, the BPPC SCSI - can somebody please explain why it
is not supported? Is it a technical problem? I have
understood CSPPC SCSI is supported, so why not BPPC one?

The SCSI chips on both cards are different.
For a working driver, you need the information how to
access the SCSI chip on the card (which chip register
has which address etc), the docs for the chip, knowledge
in SCRIPT code (the chip executes a program written in
SCRIPT, thats probably a bit more complicated than the
average IDE driver), knowledge in SCSI, knowledge in
OS4 device driver programming including DMA, an A1200,
a BlizzardPPC card, a SCSI card for the BlizzardPPC,
some SCSI devices, time and motivation.

There may exist persons which have the knowledge but not
the hardware, the typical experienced OS4 developer has an
AOne, eventually a CSPPC, but no BPPC with SCSI. Or the
motivation may be missing (IDE works, IDEFix works, AFAIK
EIDE99 and FastATA work, SCSI is a dead standard nowadays,
the future is IDE/PATA/SATA/USB). Or the docs are missing
(dont remember if there exists a BPPC SCSI driver source
code with a NetBSD-like license, or at least docs about
the BPPC card register layout).

Quote:

Second, the USB - what controllers are supported? Can we for example use Spider USB cards?

The Highway is supported by the Sirion USB stack.
Its also possible to use Poseidon and its Subway driver,
I dont know if using Poseidon and its Spider driver would work.

Quote:

Finally, is OS4 for classics able to use the joystick ports on the mobo?

It comes with the classic version of gameport.device so it
should work, have not tested it for years but when it would
not work I'm pretty sure a bug report would have been filed.

Topic | Forum

Top

« 1 (2) 3 4 5 ... 8 »