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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@flash

Quote:
Once again I ask to opensource some existing AmigaOS software, just like gfx drivers, bios roms and others important keys of Amiga OS system to help community improve/expand existing compatibility and let dream continue.

Open-sourcing isn't necessarily the best way forward. The only reason I can afford to write graphics drivers for AmigaOS is because A-EON pays me, and they can only pay me because they're able to sell software & hardware.

What would help is if developer documentation for things such as graphics drivers were opened up. No need to open source the drivers themselves, just make the documentation needed to write them open. I've advocated for this before, and hope it'll eventually happen.

Hans

http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@balaton

Quote:
There exist PCIe to PCI bridges to connect PCI cards to modern systems. I've heard fhat those using a Pericom chip might be the best but this is not confirmed, just rumors. Also I'm not sure if the guest really has to support PCIe to pass through a card but it seems likely that having a PCIe card appear as a PCI card in the guest might cause problems and the driver could get confused so that's less likely to work.

The issue with the BIOS might not be fatal though as long as it works enough for the driver to find and init the card so I would not give up on that yet.

The Pegasos II UBoot issue is a show-stopper. It won't look behind a PCI-to-PCI(e) bridge, which means it won't configure cards behind a bridge, and the card also doesn't appear in the hardware list passed to the OS. It's like the card isn't there.

Quote:
As detailed on the qmiga development page on ati-vga the emulated Radeon 7000 is missing emulation of the micro-engine (aka CCE or PM4) so while the driver detects it and starts to talk to it it stops working when the driver enables the command processor. This could be emulated to make it work but somebody would need to port code for that from Xenia emulator as I haven't got to that yet because it's quire some work and so far I had enough to do on pegasos2 emulation and improving what's there. This is explained in https://osdn.net/projects/qmiga/ticket/40018

That probably would be quite a bit of work.

Quote:
If we are only concerned about one guest OS like AmigaOS then wrting a guest driver for QEMU's virtio devices may be easier and get better results.

Virtio drivers would be the best way forward for AmigaOS.

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@m3x

Quote:
I've ported ATOMBIOS into Sam460 U-boot version, and ASICInit indeed seems to initialize correctly the card but ATM I cannot get any videomode working. Do I need to call the classic x86 BIOS emulation before calling ASICInit, or something else need to be done to have a basic 640x480 screen mode ?

IIRC, you need to do the lowlevel initialization (POSTing) of the card for it to work. That should be part of the old x86 ROM code.

Hans

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The KVM question... again
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My KVM just died. Yesterday I heard an electrical bang (like what you'd get if you accidentally short-circuited something). Today, another one, then my screen went black and I got a buzzing noise out of the speakers.

All other hardware seems to be fine, but the KVM is dead (brand: AIMOS). So, any 4-port HDMI KVM recommendations? Preferably one that can handle UHD resolutions, and isn't too expensive.

Hans

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@Maijestro

Quote:
I'm not sure if I understood correctly, but if we had a radeon rom that would initialize the atiradeon.chip could you use it with Qemu as an emulated graphics card?

No. I'm responding to the attempts to use the PCI pass-through with actual graphics cards. Basically, the driver needs access to the graphics card's actual ROM.

The sentence you quoted is me guessing that the same is true with the atiradeon.chip driver. I don't know that for sure, though.

As for using the emulated Radeon. My understanding is that qemu has an emulated Rage 128 Pro, and partial Mobility Radeon 7000 (a.k.a., M6). We don't have an ATI Rage driver, so that one is out.** The atiradeon.chip driver can handle the Radeon 7000 (IIRC, the Micro-A1 had it on-board), but I don't know if the mobility version needs any special handling. No guarantees that having an actual ROM would get it working.

Hans


** AFAIK, MorphOS has an ATI Rage driver, so they may be using the emulated Rage 128 Pro.

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@all

The RadeonHD & RadeonRX drivers do need a copy of the graphics card's ROM. It won't touch the VGABIOS x86 code (or UEFI equivalent), but will use the ATOMBIOS. This includes both data tables and code in a virtual machine language that ATI/AMD created for the purpose.

While the ATOMBIOS ASICInit function should theoretically initialize the card from zero, we found that cards typically wouldn't work properly unless the motherboard's firmware did the lowlevel initialization first.

There's a good chance that the older atiradeon.chip driver also needs to read from the ROM. Obtaining a copy of the ROM after the firmware has read it can be tricky. Radeon cards tend to need a bunch of registers to be set to a particular state for it to be readable.

Hans

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Re: What is the current situation with printing in OS4 on real hardware?
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@terminills

Quote:

All of the detection etc is part of the ipp everywhere spec.

I know. I've already looked into this...

Quote:
The bigger issue is compatibility with the printer.device for legacy software. Finalwriter uses its own print system so we’re able to choose how we communicate.

Chris' ipp.device might be a good starting point for backward compatibility.

Have you considered making Finalwriter's print system standalone, so it could be used by all software? The AmigaOS printer device is too limited in its abilities.

Hans

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Re: What is the current situation with printing in OS4 on real hardware?
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@terminills
Quote:
You don’t need all of cups just enough to support ipp correctly. ipp everywhere requires all printers to support pwg raster format so therefore implementing ipp proper with pwg raster output you now support all of the modern “driverless” printers.

https://ftp.pwg.org/pub/pwg/candidates ... er10-20120420-5102.4.docx

Very true. We do need an updated printer system, though, so that detecting and using printers is easy for everyone (including developers).

This thread is filled with workarouds people have found to be able to use modern printers with OS4. It's impressive in some ways, but nobody should have to resort to such workarounds just to use a printer.

Hans

http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
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Re: The OpenGL ES 2.0 thread
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@Daytona675x

Quote:
- Fix: it is crucial for good framerates to reduce Nova submissions to a minimum. However, certain operations require a submission. ogles2.lib's internals try to get a good balance here. However, the last time I optimized things here I introduced a bug where I made such a necessary submission due to certain state changes but falsely marked the used-objects list as empty - which in turn caused another required follow-up submission not to be executed. The results could be anything from textures at wrong places or whatever because e.g. Nova would then use a newly bound texture for a PREVIOUSLY issued draw-call. Yes, be glad that you don't have to use Nova directly...

This sounds like a driver bug. It certainly should NOT be using a newly bound texture for a previously issued draw call regardless of whether you called Submit().

Please submit a bug report to A-EON's bug tracker with a way to reproduce this, and I'll look into it.

Hans

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Re: What is the current situation with printing in OS4 on real hardware?
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@livebyfaith74

Quote:
Other than still selling Turboprint for Amiga, have they ever mentioned any type of support for Amiga? Just curious.

Not that I'm aware of.

Hans

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Re: What is the current situation with printing in OS4 on real hardware?
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@Chris

Quote:
I did write an ipp.device some time back. That should work with an IPP-supporting printer and the PostScript driver, although it was based on old (even at the time) CUPS sources so might not be very compatible.

I wasn't aware of your ipp.device. I'll check it out some time.

We need a completely updated printing system, though. Setting up an LPR: DOS device is horribly hacky and user unfriendly. I'd like to see proper printer detection & driver installation, printer queues, etc.

@Primax

Quote:
I suggested a port of CUPS already two years ago, when I got my X5000.
The question is: is there any developer who would have a look into it (and who could be motivated maybe by some donations...?).

No idea. I've done a bit of research into what printing standards and code are available, but working on the graphics drivers is already more than a full time job.

If we could get the Turboprint authors enthusiastic about AmigaOS again then we'd have a good chance of getting something good.

Anyone else interested?

Hans

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Re: Libraries: GLEW / GLFW
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@kas1e

Looks like afxgroup never got round to doing anything with GLFW2 beyond clone the repository. I don't see any commits.

If GLFW3 were ported, then we'd have a good chance of getting libraries like Raylib working.

Hans

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https://keasigmadelta.com/ - more of my work
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Re: What is the current situation with printing in OS4 on real hardware?
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@all

I really wish that there were a developer or two (other than me) interested in improving the printer system. Printing systems have become a bit more standardized, so creating something new based on CUPS ia feasible. We don't necessarily need a CUPS port; just make something using the same APIs, or at least the underlying standards (e.g., IPP & PPD).

Hans

http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - more of my work
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Re: QEMU Emulation vs Hardware CPU Benchmarks
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@walkero

Thanks. Scanning through the results, the Raspberry Pi 400 seems to manage somewhere between 1/2 and 1/3rd the performance of my laptop. Not bad considering it's a low power device. Of course, it makes for a slow machine.

I wonder what the PiStorm results are for the same benchmarks. That would tell us which emulator is more efficient**...

Hans

** Yes, I know, the PiStorm emulates a 68K not a PPC, but the algorithms being executed are the same.

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@geennaam

Quote:
As far as I understand, the KVM based virtual machine uses the CPU directly. This means that the kernel must be able to handle the specific CPU of the host. And I doubt that ExecSG "speaks" e6500, PPC970 or POWER9 yet.

Correct. And, as Joerg points out, each kernel is tailored to a specific CPU. The A1-X1000's kernel is most likely to run on a G5, although its likely that the differences are just big enough that it won't work.

This is something that the ExecSG team could address.

In the meantime, there's nothing stopping anyone from using Qemu in emulation mode on a G5... with all the overhead that entails.

Hans

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Re: QEMU Emulation vs Hardware CPU Benchmarks
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@Maijestro

Quote:

I am somewhat pleasantly surprised that these results are so different.....es shows once again how strong this ARM Cpu is, but also shows its weaknesses in some areas.

Yes, the results are interesting. I am impressed with the ARM numbers. Derfs' Ryzen numbers are also significantly better than my laptop.

@all
Has anyone tried Qemu on a Raspberry Pi 4 or a PineBook Pro? I'd be interested to see what a weaker ARM CPU can do (one that doesn't have Apple's M1 extensions to aid with x86 emulation).

Hans

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Re: QEMU Emulation vs Hardware CPU Benchmarks
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@eliyahu

Yes, the FPU emulation gets in the way of some of the copy benchmarks. There's clearly something wrong on my system with the Whetstone benchmark. Maybe I haven't kept my system up-to-date enough...


@joerg
Quote:
Not possible since 32 bit CPUs don't support 64 bit integer loads/stores, 64 bit accesses are only supported for double (and 128 bit accesses for vector on some CPUs).
64 bit C integer loads/stores have to be executed as two independent 32 bit assembler loads/stores, and you have the results for 32 bit integer accesses in the READ32/WRITE32 results already.

You're clearly unfamiliar with the unusual P1022 CPU in the A1222. It doesn't have a proper PowerPC FPU, but does have 64-bit GPRs which can be used via its Stream-Processing-Engine (SPE). The RadeonHD & RX drivers both have SPE optimized copy routines in them.

Hans

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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@K-L
Quote:
Question: does QEmu exists ont Power architecture?

Would QEmu on a Talos II system ( https://www.raptorcs.com/ ), for example, be really fast since PowerPC architecture derivates from Power arch ?

It should. Search for "KVM" on this page, and you'll see that it's been used in KVM mode on a T2080.

Hans

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Re: QEMU Emulation vs Hardware CPU Benchmarks
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Machine: A1-X1000-40

CPUBench v1.0


RageMem:

RAGEMEM v0.37 - compiled 11/06/2010

CPU: Freescale P5040 (E5500 core) 1.2 @ 2200 Mhz
Caches Sizes: L1: 32 KB - L2: 512 KB - L3: none
Cache Line: 64

---> CPU <---
MAX MIPS: 4397

---> L1 <---
READ32: 8183 MB/Sec
READ64: 16342 MB/Sec
WRITE32: 8184 MB/Sec
WRITE64: 16346 MB/Sec

---> L2 <---
READ32: 4660 MB/Sec
READ64: 8378 MB/Sec
WRITE32: 5494 MB/Sec
WRITE64: 9634 MB/Sec

---> RAM <---
READ32: 615 MB/Sec
READ64: 1055 MB/Sec
WRITE32: 1433 MB/Sec
WRITE64: 1438 MB/Sec
WRITE: 2455 MB/Sec (Tricky)

---> VIDEO BUS <---
READ: 21 MB/Sec
WRITE: 539 MB/Sec



SortBench:
-------------------------------------------------------------
SORTBENCH 1.1 (Gunnar von Boehn)
Its a CPU benchmark that stresses CPU, DCache and branch prediction.
-------------------------------------------------------------
1 K Element : 4129.14 MB/sec
2 K Element : 4145.09 MB/sec
4 K Element : 4150.98 MB/sec
8 K Element : 4155.51 MB/sec
16 K Element : 3730.50 MB/sec
32 K Element : 3625.49 MB/sec


BogoMIPS:
Calibrating delay loop..

Ok - 352.00 BogoMips



Dhrystone:
Dhrystone Benchmark, Version 2.1 (Language: C)
Program compiled without 'register' attribute

Execution starts, 50000000 runs through Dhrystone
Execution ends

Duration in seconds: 23.1
Microseconds for one run through Dhrystone: 0.5
Dhrystones per Second: 2165278.0
Dhrystone MIPS (DMIPS) 1232



Quicksort:
Elaborating quicksort of 1000 numbers repeated for 10 times
Total time taken by CPU: 2.47


Sieve:

Sieve of Eratosthenes (Scaled to 10 Iterations)
Version 1.2, 03 April 1992

Array Size Number Last Prime Linear RunTime MIPS
(Bytes) of Primes Time(sec) (Sec)
8191 1899 16381 0.000781 0.000781 2121.7
10000 2261 19997 0.000954 0.000976 2081.1
20000 4202 39989 0.001908 0.001757 2342.6
40000 7836 79999 0.003816 0.003517 2369.6
80000 14683 160001 0.007632 0.007811 2158.5
160000 27607 319993 0.015264 0.017185 1983.5
320000 52073 639997 0.030528 0.034370 2004.1
640000 98609 1279997 0.061056 0.100021 1391.0
1280000 187133 2559989 0.122111 0.312500 898.8
2560000 356243 5119997 0.244223 1.224976 462.7
5120000 679460 10239989 0.488445 3.999939 285.8
10240000 1299068 20479999 0.976890 9.799805 235.2
20480000 2488465 40960001 1.953781 21.799316 213.2

Relative to 10 Iterations and the 8191 Array Size:
Average RunTime = 0.002749 (sec)
High MIPS = 2369.6
Low MIPS = 213.2



Whetstone:

Please wait...

Loops: 50000 Iterations: 1 Duration: 7.6 seconds
C Converted Double Precision Whetstones: 654.5 MIPS


All tests done.

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Re: QEMU Emulation vs Hardware CPU Benchmarks
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Machine: A1222

CPUBench v1.0


RageMem:

RAGEMEM v0.37 - compiled 11/06/2010

CPU: Freescale P10XX (E500 core) 5.1 @ 1199 Mhz
Caches Sizes: L1: 32 KB - L2: 256 KB - L3: none
Cache Line: 64

---> CPU <---
MAX MIPS: 2398

---> L1 <---
READ32: 4402 MB/Sec
READ64: 330 MB/Sec
WRITE32: 4411 MB/Sec
WRITE64: 322 MB/Sec

---> L2 <---
READ32: 630 MB/Sec
READ64: 182 MB/Sec
WRITE32: 969 MB/Sec
WRITE64: 321 MB/Sec

---> RAM <---
READ32: 606 MB/Sec
READ64: 181 MB/Sec
WRITE32: 924 MB/Sec
WRITE64: 317 MB/Sec
WRITE: 317 MB/Sec (Tricky)

---> VIDEO BUS <---
READ: 7 MB/Sec
WRITE: 158 MB/Sec



SortBench:
-------------------------------------------------------------
SORTBENCH 1.1 (Gunnar von Boehn)
Its a CPU benchmark that stresses CPU, DCache and branch prediction.
-------------------------------------------------------------
1 K Element : 2210.71 MB/sec
2 K Element : 2226.00 MB/sec
4 K Element : 2221.14 MB/sec
8 K Element : 2207.53 MB/sec
16 K Element : 565.15 MB/sec
32 K Element : 456.96 MB/sec


BogoMIPS:
Calibrating delay loop..

Ok - 192.00 BogoMips



Dhrystone:
Dhrystone Benchmark, Version 2.1 (Language: C)
Program compiled without 'register' attribute

Execution starts, 50000000 runs through Dhrystone
Execution ends

Duration in seconds: 41.6
Microseconds for one run through Dhrystone: 0.8
Dhrystones per Second: 1201938.1
Dhrystone MIPS (DMIPS) 684



Quicksort:
Elaborating quicksort of 1000 numbers repeated for 10 times
Total time taken by CPU: 4.62


Sieve:

Sieve of Eratosthenes (Scaled to 10 Iterations)
Version 1.2, 03 April 1992

Array Size Number Last Prime Linear RunTime MIPS
(Bytes) of Primes Time(sec) (Sec)
8191 1899 16381 0.001367 0.001367 1212.7
10000 2261 19997 0.001669 0.001758 1155.8
20000 4202 39989 0.003338 0.003515 1170.9
40000 7836 79999 0.006677 0.013672 609.5
80000 14683 160001 0.013353 0.045313 372.1
160000 27607 319993 0.026706 0.114064 298.8
320000 52073 639997 0.053412 0.246873 279.0
640000 98609 1279997 0.106824 0.524998 265.0
1280000 187133 2559989 0.213648 1.112499 252.5
2560000 356243 5119997 0.427296 2.900009 195.4
5120000 679460 10239989 0.854593 6.949997 164.5
10240000 1299068 20479999 1.709186 15.399933 149.7
20480000 2488465 40960001 3.418371 33.999939 136.7

Relative to 10 Iterations and the 8191 Array Size:
Average RunTime = 0.006461 (sec)
High MIPS = 1212.7
Low MIPS = 136.7



Whetstone:

Please wait...

Loops: 50000 Iterations: 1 Duration: 414.5 seconds
C Converted Double Precision Whetstones: 12.1 MIPS


All tests done.

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