@ssolie

If it happened once, I could believe a coincedence.
But after about an hour, I replaced the old pre-july software and the problem disappeared. Completely, and remained gone for many hours of heavy use.
So the problem "appeared" during the very first boot after installing the upgrade, continued to cause a lockup within three minutes every time, then disappeared completely when the old software was reinstalled.

Now THAT would be quite a coincedence.

So I repeated the entire test, this time with a fresh download to make sure I didn't have a bad copy.
Within two minutes of the second installation of the update, the problem appeared again, right on cue! I tested it about a dozen more times, with a lockup every time.

Then I restored the previous software, for the second time, and as soon as I rebooted with the original kickstart modules, the lockup problem disappeared again.

So, if you want to call that coincedence, there is nothing more I can do to convince you.

Speaking for myself, I'm sure it's not.

As a troubleshooter, I would find information like this to be VERY valuable, if I was interested in learning more about the problem.

Of course, if I wasn't interested in fixing the problem, then it would definetly be easier to blame it on coincedence.

Since I don't have access to the code, I'm done now.
It's your call.

@NTN

Well, my knowledge of electronics may be a bit outdated.

By "CMOS" I meant battery backed memory storage. Since all of my UBOOT variables were reset during the battery change, I assumed that they were stored in CMOS RAM.
Had they been stored in FLASH, they would not have reset when the battery was changed.

In any case, there is still the open question of why the latest update requires a stonger battery than the previous one.
With my apparently borderline battery, the problem appeared within moments of loading the new kickstart modules, and disappeared as soon as the previous ones were put back.

I think that is a clue that deserves further investigation.

Have a nice day,
LyleHaze


Question: If the UBOOT vars are stored in NVRAM, why would they be lost on a battery change? By definition NVRAM does not require power to retain its contents.
It sure looks a lot like SRAM to me.

@Thread
Thanks to everyone for the support, and for not making me feel too foolish.

My "battery question" is this:
I was rock solid before the July update, no issues at all.
_Immediately_ after loading the new kickstart modules, I had a (apparently battery related) lockup. My machine continued to lockup until I reverted to my pre-update backup. At that point, the problem _completely_ disappeared, and I went back to solid performance.

This cycle was repeated twice for confirmation.

Now, a battery is obviously a hardware problem, but if I were on "the team", I would be interested in writing a bit of code to read all the CMOS into "shadow ram" and divert all further CMOS reads to there.
Obviously there would be issues with CMOS writes, but I think it would be an interesting experiment anyway.

In any case, with the help of everyone here, I am up and running again, and I have a proper backup of my current UBOOT settings.
We have also left a "trail of crumbs" for anyone later having the same problems.

Thanks to all,
LyleHaze

Oh, on loading the PCI buss:
even if the slot is empty, much of the "buiiltin" stuff is on the PCI buss anyway, it just doesn't have the connector.

OK, problem solved.

It looks like I owe SSolie a toonie.

Replacing the battery has fixed the problem.

Big thanks to everyone for the help.

Maybe I'll design a battery replacement that never goes below 3Volts, based on a bigger, higher voltage battery.
Then include an audible alarm when it gets low.

Time to re-install my regular HDs again.

LyleHaze

Back to my usual HD's, and no lockups unless I open IBrowse.
That knocks it out in about two seconds.

I wonder if it's related to the update, or all the mucking around I did in UBOOT?
I wish there was a UBOOT backup/restore utility.

Oh Well, at least the plants are getting watered again.

Lyle

@Thread

OK, I recall something about the Pioneer DVR-107 being the cause, something had to be set in UBoot, then later reset in the startup sequence to prevent this problem.

I'm still searching, its been a LONG time.

Lyle

From IntuitionBase: (Thanks Ryu)
Notes: While the drive's firmware messes up the interrupts during detection, you should make a workaround to make it work with UDMA on OS4: turn it's IRQ off (Ubootprefs) and put this into your startup sequence: idetool -i a1ide.device 1 1 &

OK, so setenv a1ide_irq 1101
should have worked, but didn't.
setenv a1ide_irq 0000
does work, I'm booting again.

I love the details!
Somebody write that down for me.

Off to figure out the serial debug setup..

Lyle

@Thread

OK, this is getting less funny by the minute.
I have installed a new battery.

On boot, the kickstart modules are loaded, it then goes to the "Boing Ball" screen that usually means "insert workbench". It refuses to boot to either the IDE HD or the IDE CDROM.
I seem to recall reading something about this problem back in January, but it didn't happen to me then.

How is it that simply getting serial debug information should be such a pain in the ass?

I'll review the installation instructions from the CD-ROM, and try to figure out which UBOOT parameter is wrong.

Any hints will be gratefully accepted.

Lyle

@ssolie

OK, first the status update:
I am unable to get any debug output from OS4.

After reviewing the guide by #6, I can only guess that it's because I don't have a debug boot option, which he states must be selected.

The A1 is still locking up frequently.

If I set debuglevel and console by kdebug from a shell, I still get no output. After lunch, I'm going to write a script to test the cable connection, just to be sure.

Just to be a friendly type, I'm going to go out to lunch and buy a new battery for my AOne.

I mean, the bet is a big one!

Be back in about 90 minutes.
(God I hate this Windows machine!)

LyleHaze

@ssolie

Battery was replaced with the December update, and since the A1 is powered up 24/7, there is almost no drain on it.
Besides, the problem appeared exactly when I added the July update, and disappeared again when I got rid of the July update (twice each so far).

I mean, I'm open for suggestions, really!
But I am confident that this is not battery related.

About the only thing I can think of right now is UBoot settings, since that is all that can be "carried over" from the previous installation.
I was beginning to wonder if I was getting the wrong kick modules from a different partition than I was booting from, but that has now been eliminated too.

Anyway, I found the null modem cable, and stretched it over to the win98 machine. Now I'm off to figure out the baud settings for the debug stream..
Will report back when I have more to tell.

LyleHaze

@Rogue

OK, some more information.
I think we can rule out any add-on software from me.
Here's the current scoop:

I removed my 2 precious HD's and added a Samsung 120 that had an older version installed.
Side note: had 4 partitions, 2 are now bad, so I just removed their "automount" ticks. DH0 and DH1 partitions still working.
I quick formatted DH0: , and installed SLB_V2 from the december 2006 release.
I did the full usual install from Dec 2006.
Did a network wizard thing to find my LAN, OK.
Added screenmode 1280x768@60 to my radeon tooltypes, rebooted, then selected same screenmode from prefs.
download the July2007 update, unarc and install.
type "reboot" into an open shell.

2 minutes after the reboot, machine is locked up. Input device does not see CTRL-ALT-ALT

Now I'll go find a serial cable (I may have to make one)
I'll update more as I proceed.

Maybe a complete re-install was the long way around, but it certainly eliminates a lot of little possibilities.

LyleHaze

@Rogue

At the moment my serial port is connected to an X-10 interface to water my plants. I thought that it MIGHT be getting debug output there, so I turned it off for the last three lockups. No change.

I'm just starting a 3 day weekend, so I should have time to try this:
I'll pull my current hard drive for safe keeping. I find that I get very irritable when my Amiga is down.

I'll add a clean drive and install the latest full release, test for a while, then add the July Update and test some more. I'll try to keep a record of all changes/additions that I make (classes for SimpleMail, CAMD stuff, etc.)

It shouldn't take too long to find it. it seems to lock up pretty fast. When I have more to report, I'll feed it back into this forum, unless you'd like me to write you directly.

Now where did I see a spare hard drive around here??

LyleHaze

OK, so I'm running a bit late.
Actually I don't usually update my OS while I'm developing, so I put it off for a while. But I read that DeluxeMusic works better under the update, so I took the plunge last night.
Oops, something is not quite right.
After installing, I reset the machine from the case reset button, as instructed. While starting up, the usual three second delay to select the boot source (the choice is in RED on the boot screen) seems to be taking longer. Yup, the machine locked up on me. That's new.
The next reboots came up OK, but locked up in the first three minutes every time.

I read the available comments from other users, I didn't see anything that resembles this. I want to provide useful feedback to the developers if I can. I can't provide a crashlog, as it never brought a reaper. It just froze up.

After about five repeats of this, I help CTRL down to stop the boot process, and I copied my system backup back over the SYS: partition. (of course I made a backup just before updating, doesn't everyone?) Now all is well again.

My machine has been very stable before the update, this really caught me by suprise. A few details about my machine may help:
Micro-AOne with a IBM 750GX processor, running at original clock rates, with the original 256Meg ram stick.
OS version before update was a clean install of "Final Update".
I have the most recent public versions of the SDK, PERL, SimpleMail, CAMD, all working fine. I had tried installing X11 at some point, but couldn't tell you if that worked.

My keyboard and mouse are both PS2.
Attached USB devices include a card reader and 2 MIDI devices, the MIDI stuff was still working fine after the update (my system makes heavy use of CAMD, all seems to be working fine)

So, I guess I'm the only one with this problem. I haven't seen any reports like this one so far. If I can help to track this problem down I will, but on a separate hard drive. Otherwise I'll stay at final release until the next big release happens.

Keep up the progress, and if I can help, just ask.
LyleHaze

@Severin

Thanks, but I don't have Amiblitz, and I've never used it.
For short projects, I usually avoid new languages.

I wrote a suite of tools to do this with style about ten years ago. They are on Aminet as "ARexX-10.lha". It came as three executables: The "core" application that connected with the device and provided an ARexx hub for any applications that wanted access, a "remote" that simply gave a GUI window that showed activity and allowed control, and finally an app that would launch ARexx scripts when certain events were seen on the X-10 channels.
Taken together, they worked really well. I automated a few homes with them. Unfortunately, they don't seem to work with OS4.
Last night I considered porting them, but I have not yet done ANY ARexx work in OS4, and I'm not sure how same/different it would be. Since the hardware is no longer available, I would probably be developing for an audience of one. I really want to work on this automatic sprinkler system for our vegetable garden, and a script file provides FAR better control than the timers available in the garden store.
So I connected the old X-10 interface, and it works! I've written a script to do "cyclic" watering for the daylight hours.. Now to decide whether I want to use drip irrigation, or go flashy with water fountains flying across the deck and landing in the potted tomato plants. Could be pretty showy!

Tomorrow I'll install the tubing. I'll see what might be done with dancing fountains.

It's all good.
Lyle

@TetiSoft

It took two tries, but it's now working.
BIG thanks for the help.

I can now proceed with my weekend project.

Life is good today.

LyleHaze

@tonyw

Thanks.
I had forgotten about the debug output.
I wonder if that will confuse the device that I want to attach? It's an old X-10 controller called "LynX-10".
No longer manufactured, but it sends and receives, so I used to use remotes around the house to trigger other scripts.
Now, I just want to use it as a cyclic timer for watering houseplants.
I dug up the source for the original Amiga drivers. It's all there, but I'm not sure it's worth porting, since the target hardware is no longer available.
Hmm, so I'll add "disabling serial debug" to my list.
Thanks!
Lyle

OK, here's the plan:
I have a device that connects to the serial port and is controlled by short, plain ASCII strings. I'd like to write a script file to operate this device for a while until I can get around to porting its regular driver software to OS4.
My question is simple. Can anyone here show me how to do this? How do I open it with the required settings, such as 1200 baud 8,n,1, and send a short string from a script.
After every command, the device returns a single character to indicate success or failure. Parsing the return would be nice, but I'll run blind if I have to.
I think it's possible, and probably not too difficult. I just don't remember how I used to do it.

Thank You,
LyleHaze

@keisangi

Your first comment starting this thread was on "Uptime", and your most recent posting still puts "prone to crash" at the top of your dislike list.

It may be a good idea to get your system checked out by a competent professional. My AmigaOne runs 24/7, and it's uptime regularly goes into weeks at a time. The only thing that breaks that up is my occasional "coding weekends", which require regular reboots as I continue to document ways that won't work when writing new code.

Seriously. If my machine were unstable, I would be VERY dissatisfied. I can't be bothered with unreliable equipment.

My workstation at home has two computers side-by-side. One is a micro-AOne, and the other a Windows machine. Based entirely on the "User Experience", the micro is my 24/7 machine, and the windows rig is only started when I'm doing something that can't be done in OS4. I'm also happy to say that reasons to start the windows box are getting less and less.

Now, I understand that the writers of OS4 have a lot less resources available to them that the windows team. Especially considering that, I think it's freaking amazing that they already have exceeded windows on stability and user-friendly operation. They have. I'm sitting in front of it right now.

You are correct that there is more we would like. There are plenty of "wish lists" of what programs users want next. But I think if you want to write a post about what you think is lacking in OS4, choosing to lead with complaints about "Uptime" and "prone to crash" may be saying more about your equipment that it does about OS4.

LyleHaze

@Arnie

I'm glad you were able to get something from it.
It is completely "classic", and I have done nothing with it, except to add it to my user-startup. I have not even had a look at the source code. Because I've been involved with the OS4 port of CAMD I was glad to have it to test the backward compatibility, but that's really all I know about it. I also played around with the "fireworks" toy that came with it. A few releases ago it was working as well. Interesting toy, and could be fun to compose something specifically for it.
I haven't really looked into a file player/sequencer because there are a few out there already. Bars&Pipes, Horny, and a few more, I'm sure. As far as I can tell CAMD is solid. The last bug has been found and the (hopefully final) release should be this weekend. Since we have CAMD and the USB driver working well, I've been off doing smaller projects. It seems I'm always writing little tools to do something different in CAMD. I release them in batches occasionally. At first there were SysEx tools to help me develop for the MIDIBox. Then I built an audio mixer, and needed some tools for volume and balance/pan controls. Got that working great, now I'm thinking about making MIDI controlled lighting systems, so eventually I'll need a RGB/HSV pixel editor of some sort.

Anyway, getting back to the topic...
There is nothing I can offer towards "fixing" PlayMF. Sorry.
The idea of adding a CAMD port to Timidity sounds great! I would be glad to help anyone who asks. CAMD is pretty easy to work with, and I have LOTS of example code.
There is a fresh release of CAMD coming very soon, but it's not much different. It just fixes a bug that comes up when you "avail flush".

LyleHaze

"Always keep a song in your heart. It's like Karaoke for the voices in your head."

@Arnie

I wonder why playmf isn't working for you?
I can paste the line I'm using in my user-startup..
c:playmf Work:midi/looneytunes.mid LINK "EDIROL UM-880.out.2" REPLACE XG

A few notes: if there are spaces in your output cluster name, then entire name must be in quotes (as shown). Also, cluster names are CaSe SenSiTive.. they have to match exactly. You can see a current list with the "showclusters" tool. It can also be used to test for a specific cluster name.

Since MANY of the older CAMD tools assume you'll be using out.0, I have added the folowing line in my user-startup:

run >nil: c:midithru out.0 "EDIROL UM-880.out.2"

This creates an "out.0" and lets me connect it to whatever cluster that I want for "default" program output.

Have Fun,
LyleHaze

@Arnie

I don't know how well it will work with tricky files, but I use "PlayMF" from the classic CAMD toolkit to play files through CAMD from my user-startup.

http://aminet.net/mus/midi/CAMD_Toolkit.lha

I also dump SysEx setups using TSX from my own toolkit:

http://os4depot.net/index.php?functio ... driver/misc/camdtools.lha

I've been doing a lot of work lately with some tools that are used to control volume and pan from script files. I haven't released them yet, but they are available for asking if you are interested.

I've designed a new audio mixer, with NO moving parts. It's completely solid-state, and is usually controlled by a behringer BCR2000 deck or Bars&Pipes or CLI or script files or whatever else. It's only a basic Line mixer, i.e. volume and balance/pan, but it suits my studio well.
It's based on a GPL midi platform called MidiBox. Fun Stuff.

http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?do=show&id=midiboxmixer

OK, I'll stop showing off now.

I hope PlayMF works for you. If not, you might try loading the file into B&P and re-saving it, in case of a bad file format. You could also try filtering some control events out to see which are giving you trouble.

[edit] putting "XG" at the end of the command line for PlayMF will do a "proper" XG reset. You can also do one at will using TSX and a file I have called "XG". Just ask if you want it.

Have Fun,
LyleHaze

It's interesting enough, to be sure.
I wish it didn't have to happen, but finding SOME resolution is better than spending eternity in limbo.

While my own contribution to OS4 is very minor, this entire drama has just made me very happy that I gave it freely, without any hope of getting paid.

I'll just hope that solving these legal issues leads us to a better future.

Hey, I can hope, can't I??

LyleHaze