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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
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Posted on: Today 15:01
#1
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Just popping in 
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@Gebrochen Well it should be included. The original Amiga releases had the files included on CD. The recent Heretic II re-release would be all complete I'd expect. And Shogo you would know included all the files. For free its fine. But once you charge money you gotta step up your game. The OS4 CD has had the OEM Lite driver for a while by arrangement. It's meant to be a basic driver just to get the OS installed. It's fine for the intended use but the license agreement ran out so all they left is an obsolete version on the CD that can't support above a HD7000 or something. So the user must buy the full driver off AmiStore or AmigaKit and then assemble their own bootable OS4 CD. Or create a recovery partition. This happened with OS4.1 which was cheaper than OS4.0 and you can see why. What was meant to be OS4.2 ended up in OS4.1 like updated shell and some other things. AmigaKit are already proofing their concept with the A600GS and ARM optimised graphics. Though its 68K based, this would be the bridge to their own System 54. Which is their plan to replace OS4 but needs OS4 components still. Included in Enhancer. But the free Enhancer, or Enhancer Core, doesn't include any Radeon drivers I'm aware of so users are still stuck! 
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Re: Pegasos2 with RadeonHD/RX via bridge
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Posted on: Yesterday 13:57
#2
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Just popping in
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@kas1e Quote: The Debian net install can install without internet connection for sure : it says "you have no connection, install the base minimal setup ?" , but then, even if it installs it, it misses some post-install steps, making the system not bootable in the end. Not here. I just booted my Debian net installer on my XE. Exactly as on the Sam. It wants a mirror and won't continue without it. It needs to download the base system. The net installer must have been updated since. Quote: You didn't search close enough for, in the Google there are few places pointing to correct servers which can be used with Debian (at least the one for pegasos2, which is 8.11): I searched for hours and didn't crack it. It always gives a bad mirror at first. If I manage to give it a mirror it accepts it ends in an arch error as ppc not supported. In addition it wants Jessie but that's obsolete as Jessie isn't stable any more. The problem is you can't exactly tell it you want jessie or enter jessie as it always looks for stable, oldstable, etc. It's just too hard coded. It's ppc which always has the worse support. Especially Ubuntu where they break ppc32 files so they don't work in the archive but don't care because it's ppc and not x86 despite both being an obsolete 32 bit arch. Anyway you were looking for some ISOs. Here's Ubuntu. But these are a full image so will work! I found a good list of PPC images is here: https://vivapowerpc.eu/software/Ubuntu/lubuntu-16.04-desktop-powerpc.iso ubuntu-16.04.6-server-powerpc.iso ubuntu-mate-16.04-desktop-powerpc.iso There is also an extra archived mate with 16.04.1 from 2019 and a 16.10 from 2020: https://releases.ubuntu-mate.org/archived/16.04/https://releases.ubuntu-mate.org/archived/16.10/
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Re: Amiga X5000 and Sound Blaster Audigy FX problem
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Posted on: Yesterday 5:59
#3
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Just popping in
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@amig_os The file doesn't exist. Apart from that the Depot has been messed up. I can't add any comments anywhere. 
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Re: Pegasos2 with RadeonHD/RX via bridge
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Just popping in
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@smarkusg Quote: The Net installation (netinstall.iso) even if you can't download packages contains the "base" core packages. I've never seen that happen for a standard net install. They always needed internet connection. The Sam install CDs for example won't even get to the installer without a working server. Quote: You can change the installation of packages from the repository by changing the domain to "archive.debian.org", but this should not be necessary for your needs. I've not got this to work. A few months ago I booted a Debian net installer and looked for a working repo. I must have spent over two hours looking for a working source and every one I found online failed without working ppc32 support.
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Re: Attempting to upgrade Sam 440 with an R7 240 or HD 7770
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Just popping in
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@Gebrochen Quote: Well, the r7 240 isn't a waste, as technically I might need this card in future for the old 440ep which James plans on giving back to me....(Oh crap, it means Ill also need to buy yet another adapter......lol) Well, perhaps next time, you could try one of those PCI1PEX1 cards for some variety. You never know your luck if it works. Variety is the spice of life!  Quote: Yeah I know, easier to do on PC, but, not as fun watching my friends confused windoze brains trying to use the Amiga OS.... lol What were they trying to do?  Well actually, if you can get both online normally, there both on the network. But networked over a cross link, well, Miami was good for that like a Mac with internet sharing features. I gave up on that almost 20 years ago with Roadshow. It just needed too much manual work. Where as with Miami or MiamiDX it may have been, it was built in, it just needed one Amiga to connect to the other and both were online.  Quote: Albeit having said that, anyone who's used a mac before will probably find it relatively quick and easy to understand and even possibly get annoyed at the OS for not auto arranging icons, for example, when opening up a drawer. Yes I find that annoying these days as well. And even after the three actions needed to it, it can still not look right after. The reason it's like that is to avoid writing to disk. Since AmigaOS started as a floppy OS. And this avoiding of writing has continued on, though it may seem quaint now, so the disk isn't constantly thrashed. This is evident in the design of specific save/use/cancel in requesters where as in other desktops, which I also see as confusing, the close window action actually saves. The AmiDock tends to save on change though which differs from standard AmigaOS practice.
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
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Just popping in
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@Gebrochen Quote: So looking at what you've written here, its basically not comparable due to how Amiga OS works with these cards versus any other modern operating system that actually has support basically. Yes, pretty much. And also something I forgot to mention. How the card interfaces with the computer matters as well. So a 9250 PCI is designed for a PCI system and can work well. The Sam supporting a 66Mhz would help if it does have full support. But a 5450 and above with a PCIe interface needing a PCI bridge would have a bottleneck. Some 5450 cards had PCI interfaces on the hardware but I don't know if they would perform any better being a legacy interface. My XE, though is has a 66Mhz PCI slot and AGP, doesn't miss out on bottlenecks either. The 66Mhz slot, it it can work, is not plug and play, needs some config in UBoot and conflicts with AGP. The AGP is set at 2x speed, but in reality, only works at 1x speed. Also, funny enough, when I set it up and bought my 9200SE with 8x AGP from a normal computer shop, I sent messages about it to OS4 people, and was told an 8X card will never work in my XE AGP slot. I forget the details, but I plugged it it in, and it worked fine as it does now almost 20 years later. I'd expect for the PassMark tests that the PC hardware plugged in, especially PCIe, was plugged into a native PCIe slot. Working at full speed. With drivers optimised for maximum efficiency. Quote: is there a web site that shows comparisons to what Im getting with a card on a system compared to other users using the same card? Well, yes, that would be results on the HDRLab site Joerg linked too. The Composite 3d demo could also be good to test as well. Quote: Im baffled why the community didnt continue with the idea that WARGUS put upon the community, a user may have an original CD, and there fore could physically install the copy.... Well, they still do for some ports. Wargus is one example. There would be others. A recent example is the Quake 2 OS4 update which uses a PC CD for data files. But that one is strange, as it's a paid product update of the Hyperion port from years ago, that needs the data files. I'd expect if paying for a game that it would all be included.
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
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Just popping in
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@joerg
Yes, that's the one, that's the 3D on 2D compositing I was thinking of.
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Re: AmigaOS4 turns 20 years old
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Just popping in
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Ah yes. 2004, the year of the OS. OS4 is still a youngster I see.
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
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Just popping in
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@joergQuote: I don't know what that G2D rating uses. While the AmigaOS IGraphics->CompositeTag(s|List)() function is mostly used for 2D operations like scaling, rotating, alpha blending, etc., it's based on the 3D features of GPU. Of course there is CPU based fallback code as well, but very slow compared to a GPU supporting it. That's good to know and I do recall something about 3D for 2D operations. Unless I'm thinking of something else. When I upgraded my lite RadeonHD driver to full version it was noticeable the increase in resolution and snappyness on the 5450 I was then using. But, it also has no 3d support, yet it didn't appear to be software rendering. Quote: Theoretically it would be better to compare the results of different gfx cards on https://www.hdrlab.org.nz/benchmark/gfxbench2d/OS/AmigaOS but since that was flooded with useless results from WinUAE and especially QEmu users (you have to ignore everything with uaegfx and SiliconMotion 502 gfx card, best results with real hardware are on page 3, best with a Sam460 on page 11 and best with a Sam440 on page 30) it's no longer usable. Thanks for the link. I do remember this one. It's unfortunate it is flooded as it's harder to navigate than PasssMark. I got SSL or TLS errors. And no direct way to sort or search.
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Re: Trying to get a Radeon HD 7750 working in an AmigaOne XE
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Posted on: 4/19 14:55
#10
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Just popping in
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@geennaam Quote: What I meant with power injector is the cheap risers used for crypto mining. He already bought that one. It's a PCIe x1 to PCIx16 solution with a USB cable in between. The power is injected to the x16 slot by means of a 6-pins PCIe power cable, 4 pins molex cable or a SATA cable Yes, I know what you meant there, I was just wondering if there was a neat solution to supplying power to bridge cards. The riser solution ends up being like a hack as the video card needs to then sit loosely in the case. Which is somewhat worse that lacking a long threaded screw to hold it in a PCI bracket. Quote: Afaik, HD7000 don't even show u-boot output without the riser/power injector described above Unfortunately I didn't take any notes when testing hardware. I tested both R7 240 and HD 7770 in bridge card as well as in powered riser. With and without power in riser. Quote: Sure, his HD 5450 work with it. Just no HD 7000 series work with those PEX8111/PEX8112 bridge/adapters Given the performance difference and lack of 3d support under HD 7000 cards not much point then. Quote: They are both 33/66MHz PCI to single lane PCIe 1 bridge chips. So there's only one lane connected in your x16 slot. Well that's typical. Then the 1x board going into the 1x socket from a USB cable would suit it then. I suppose that's neat.
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
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Posted on: 4/17 16:52
#11
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Just popping in
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@Gebrochen In addition... Quote: 9250 bench score 3
5450 bench score 136? but due to limited support in Amiga not a better card on the amiga
R7 240 by memory in the 900s, perhaps 906 in bench score
7770 had the nicest of my cards at 2000s something bench score
for exact figures, give me a moment :
https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/com ... -R7-240-vs-Radeon-HD-7770 If you see where that is you'll see it's giving the G3D rating for 3D. The 5450 has no direct 3d support in OS4 so this figure is irrelevant to OS4 really. And for supported 3d cards, the R7 240 and HD 7770 as examples, the figure is only relevant when hardware 3d drivers are installed and used. Such as Warp3D Nova and modern software using the modern drivers. For Workbench use what important figure to look at is the G2D rating. Since that would be relevant for 2D compositing. Which is included in the full RadeonHD driver regardless. In that case a 9250 gets 127, 5450 gets 140, R7 240 gets 273 and HD 7770 gets 461. You can see the 5450 is slightly better than the 9250 which isn't half bad. 7770 gets best score. Of also to note is that any HD card and above needs to go through a PCI bridge. And some like the 9250 design for PCI can be better for some operations over the PCI bus. I did read of some latency with copying to VRAM. With 3d this doesn't look crippling given textures would be uploaded to VRAM for GPU operations. Though I would have thought even for 2d images would be uploaded as well so hardware would simply copy internally.
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Re: Attempting to upgrade Sam 440 with an R7 240 or HD 7770
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Posted on: 4/17 16:34
#12
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Just popping in
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@sailor Thanks for your summary which is obviously a short list built from lots of time and testing. Why I brought up a possible powered PCI-PCIe adapter is to provide a neat solution using only one bridge board between PCI and the graphic card. As it stands now, in a manner of speaking, is the need for riser for power complicates it as now it needs to be some hack with a loose graphic card sitting around in the case. Each to their own. But a random looking card at odd angles with cables all over the place going in and out of the case is not an optimum solution in my eyes. Also, mining rig, I didn't know the mining industry used PCIe riser cards in diamond cut mines lol. The 7770 does have at least one power input. So two will be needed here. One for riser and one for carder.
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Re: Attempting to upgrade Sam 440 with an R7 240 or HD 7770
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Posted on: 4/17 16:21
#13
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Just popping in
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@Gebrochen Oh sorry. I just wanted to include all the information in one thread. Rather than have it spread over forum posts. And also list what hardware and configurations had been tested. You had mentioned the StarTech device, even if not by exact brand, but think it was confused by some discussion about Chinese chips and Japanese chips lol. My X1000 has a 500W supply as well. My main concern is not having enough cables for each device separately and needing to double up on power cables. Plus some basic PSUs can be lacking against better models. You will recall the first PSU in your Sam that blew out. The one now in working order is certainly better. There's a lot 68K people who are 68K all the way and nothing else. I see that as being stuck in the past. They define the Amiga as this one and only platform with CPU and chipset. That is unrealistic. They should know, unless they lived under an Amiga rock, that Commodore had plans to replace the Amiga with a new follow up with different CPU and 3d chipset. Most, at least on Facebook, don't seem to know or have followed Amiga history for the past 30 years! They all tend to go on about the same thing, that's not a real Amiga, it doesn't have a 68K, I cant play games off floppy. OMG are they serious? The current OS4 boards are not and never been advertised as being an Amiga. Can they actually read? Last I checked those people aren't still running a DX486 DOS PC or 68040 OS7 Mac. But the way they talk is like a bunch of aging Neanderthals with their head stuck in ancient rocks! I'm not sure what AmigaGPT needs. But an aging issue is Commodore dropped speech support in OS2. Seems silly doesn't it? Must be cost cutting as usual. Seems OS1.3 is the goto Workbench for things they removed like AmigaBASIC and speech binaries. There would be surely free speech libraries they could use. The one C= used which Apple may have used as well is old now so surely there is a better replacement. Anyway so it looks like the hardware issues will be solved soon. If only you or I knew about needing another PCI bridge. You could have saved some money and time. By buying that instead of the R7 240. When it's likely the HD 7770 has as much chance of working. And does look more powerful in the score. In the meantime I will continue to diagnose why my R7 250 freezes still. I'm supposing it to be a lost cause by now. The wreckage which is Update 2 continues to haunt me, as even after the hot fix, it still has the bug included which freezes my Workbench on boot and will continue to do so as we enter into winter time. 
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Re: Trying to get a Radeon HD 7750 working in an AmigaOne XE
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Just popping in
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@geennaam Thanks for the valuable info. And yes "I am the friend" in question. So if either me or or him use the expression "my friend" we are not using a common low security phrase to describe ourselves. It's funny that I initially had my long post here then thought I should separate it. I might as well kept it here. Or posted it to the stuttering thread. In research I've actually found a 5450 PCI card. Perhaps good also for the XE as it may be a good way to upgrade if it works. While useful for use on a PCI system it's limited in power these days. So possibly any card from 4 to the 6 series would be good. But, despite being popular in the X1000 era, they lack support for 3d. I purchased an XFX 4890 for my X1000 back in the day which is a monster. But really was wasted on my system if it wasn't used for 3d, which wasn't popularised on OS4 like it is now, and I didn't use it for any Linux 3d gaming either. What's confusing is the cards work in UBoot which gives the impression it has enough power. So would this mean it only used low power in basic VGA modes? And for opening a real screenmode in 32 bit HD it needs more power to do so? On the subject of the PEX8111/PEX8112 are there any HD cards that do work on this chipset? Mind you that means getting into the high end one you widen it from HD 7xxx to R9. It would be rather disappointing if the driver was holding it back and preventing the PEX8111/PEX8112 from working if it could. That would mean possibly working hardware rendered useless by a driver quirk. The common example for the PI7C9X111SL chipset is the StarTech card. Unfortunately this means another expensive add on is needed. Of course this is the result of using legacy technology in PCI. It's getting closer to a Classic Amiga at this stage, with the PCI add ons, where you needed expensive PCI bridges just to add an old or cheap PCI card. It also looks "inferior" to the PEX based one as it only has 1x lane where as the PEX one has full 16x lanes. So you pay more for less. Neither one has a power input necessary to fulfil the PCIe power standard. BTW I did find a PCIe power injector. Looks expensive. Riser card may be better as it's common and cheap to get. Plus if it can only work with 1x PCIe bridge no point with a full slot. Otherwise a possible PCI power injector may have solved that as well. That less likely to exist. https://quarch.com/products/gen3-pcie-power-injection-fixture/
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Re: SAM Flex Stuttering Issue workbench or software use / games
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Just popping in
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@Gebrochen After testing it myself!
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Re: Trying to get a Radeon HD 7750 working in an AmigaOne XE
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Just popping in
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@geennaam Oops too late. Posted it. Was too big for here. So is the PEX8111 or 8112 only compatible with a HD 5450 or similar card? And the PI7C9X111SL is needed for a later HD card like a HD 7770 or R7 240? Regardless of power?
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Attempting to upgrade Sam 440 with an R7 240 or HD 7770
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Just popping in
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Hi guys. So I have been reading articles and posts with a view to helping Gebrochen get an R7 240 or even HD 7770 working on his Sam 440. Currently he has PCIe bridge with a PEX. Not sure what chip. He also has a PCIe riser with a PCE164P model. Which totally confused me as I could not figure out why his card was slanted at a bad looking angle.  The R7 240 fits fine in the PEX but doesn't work in OS4. It comes up fine in UBoot but breaks when OS4 tries to open a boot logo. The same happens with the riser card in an attempt to power the card. Uboot can show but OS4 will not. It had become a bit convoluted at one point. The R7 was plugged into the PCIe riser which was then plugged into the PCIe bridge with a USB3 cable and then finally the PCIe bridge was plugged into the PCI slot. But that's not all! Then finally power was needed to be plugged into the PCIe riser. What a nightmare! The HD 7770 was even worse! Needing power both on the video card and riser card. Oh man!  Clearly there seems to be a power issue here but not even supplying extra power through convoluted solutions solved it. To me it looks like even the basic PEX bridge is not designed correctly as it has no power inputs. Or it's only designed for low power PCIe cards despite having a full sized 16x PCIe slot. What's needed is a PCIe bridge with power inputs but does anyone make any? I see mention of this P17C9X chip but again do any bridge cards with that chip have power inputs? If not I see the same problem occurring. Plus connecting a 16x card through a 1x lane would be crippling for performance. So I don't think the riser solution will help here. Another, ahem, PCIe card that serves to only provide power and takes input is needed. Are there any? The R7 has no power input so relies on PCIe bus for power. The HD does have power inputs but may not have enough power supplied. What's unclear is where power can be plugged into the riser. I looked up the PCE164P model and could not find any manual for it. I found a video but the card has input and molex on one side and input on the back. Are they all inputs? Do they all need connecting for maximum power input? It's not clear to me. The PSU is a ROCK 500W and I wonder if that needs an upgrade as well? I saw one power output for video cards. But a clear lack of power outputs as some drives needed dual adaptors. An SSD is still intended to be installed but was failing to show up as well. There could be a power issue here. Perhaps a new PSU would solve it? Or maybe not. One thing I notice is the following line in all failed cards and then it stops:
RadeonHD.chip (2): rhdGARTInit is not implemented yet␍␊
However, I see this line in working cards. But more lines follow. Is there a guide on what hardware is needed? Including compatible PSU? A 5450 works in PCIe bridge with OS4. An R7 240 and HD 7770 do not work in OS4 with either bridge or powered riser. All work in UBoot.
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Re: Trying to get a Radeon HD 7750 working in an AmigaOne XE
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Just popping in
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@sailor
So have been reading your articles with a view to helping Gebrochen get an R7 240 or even HD 7770 working on his Sam 440.
So far OS4 has failed to boot up. Cards do work in UBoot. A PCIe riser has been attempted as well to no avail.
Will open new thread instead as it relates to Sam 440.
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Re: The consistently curious case of the constantly crashing computer
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Posted on: 4/14 15:43
#19
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Just popping in
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@joergQuote:
Sorry for the bad excuse, but usually you don't open any libraries yourself but use something like -lauto, or similar solutions for individual libraries not included in libauto.a, instead. What makes it even worse is that I'm not only the main developer of the AmigaOS 4.x OWB port, but one of the two developers who did the AmigaOS 4.x port/bug fix of asyncio.library as well 🙇
Personally I open them all myself but wasn't a nightmare until I decided to write a Reaction GUI and by then it was too late. But to be fair, aside from libauto not being recommended for pro use, that fault there would lie with libauto itself. Which should internally specify version 50 or above. Not only this, but possibly the OS4 Exec should have thrown a yellow alert if any native code used 0 for version. Which is functionally equivalent to calling OldOpenLibrary() for 35 years now or so. Regarding asyncio.library, with the OS4 version I found on the Depot, that worked fine. I don't know how an old version found it's way onto my system. I even renamed it out of the way and Odyssey loaded fine. Does OWB actually rely it? I haven't checked what depends are included with it. But both OWB and Odyssey can run without any installing. Which is useful. But I do like that installer for upgrading.
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Re: The consistently curious case of the constantly crashing computer
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Posted on: 4/14 15:28
#20
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Just popping in
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@328gts Cheers. 
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