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Radeon HD 6450
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Joined:
2020/3/29 14:21
From Finland
Posts: 98
Do Radeon HD 6450 graphics cards (Caicos) work with the RadeonHD driver for AmigaOS? In HDRlabs compatibility list there are only two Asus models listed and they do not work properly.

I found a local mail-order shop which sells these models only for 10 eur/pcs:

***
Radeon HD 6450 512Gb GDDR5 display adapter: AMD-product code: ATI-102-C26405(B); HP spare nro: 637996-001 ja HP assy nro: 637183-001; Type: 2D/3D, 512Mb, 1xDVI, 1xDP; Graphiics processor: ATI Radeon HD 6450; GPU: 625MHz...
***

Are they compatible with our systems, or are they some HP-only models? Is the 512 GB enough for ordinary use?



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Re: Radeon HD 6450
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2020/11/17 12:08
From Slough
Posts: 256
I have a Radeon HD 6450 AMD Sapphire card with 1GB RAM. Half height, passive cooled i.e. silent. It works with the following limitations:

- No HDMI out (although it works in MorphOS annoyingly). DVI out and VGA out are fine.
- Max 1080P resolution at 60Hz
- No Warp 3D/Nova support so no Blender, no Shaderjoy
- No accelerated video in Emotion/Odyssey

It does support composition GUI though.

[Edit] And needs the version 2 driver but that should be obvious.


Edited by NinjaCyborg on 2021/7/27 13:34:04
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Re: Radeon HD 6450
Just popping in
Joined:
2020/3/29 14:21
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Posts: 98
@NinjaCyborg

>I have a Radeon HD 6450 AMD Sapphire card with 1GB RAM. Half height,
>passive cooled i.e. silent. It works with the following limitations:

What type of memory does it have? Do you happen to have the product code for it?

>- No HDMI out (although it works in MorphOS annoyingly). DVI out and VGA out are fine.

Very strange. What migh cause that...? I have a HD 5450 and a R7 240, and both work with HDMI, DVI and VGA.

>- Max 1080P resolution at 60Hz

Is that limitation only due to the DVI/VGA? If HDMI works with MOS, can you there get higher resolutions?

>- No Warp 3D/Nova support so no Blender, no Shaderjoy
>- No accelerated video in Emotion/Odyssey

Yes, that is the limitation of our software. On the bright side, with Linux there is 3D and accelerated video (but only with low resolutions).

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Re: Radeon HD 6450
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2020/11/17 12:08
From Slough
Posts: 256
Hans doesn't know the magic quirk to use to activate HDMI.

AFAIK 1080P at 60Hz is the hard limit of the card. It's basically one of these https://www.techpowerup.com/review/sapphire-hd-6450-passive/

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Re: Radeon HD 6450
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Joined:
2020/3/29 14:21
From Finland
Posts: 98
I have now a Radeon HD 6450 in my X5000... It has 1GB DDR3 and DVI/DP ports (no VGA).

In general, it seems to work ok both with AmigaOS and MOS, but I have found two peculiar problems:

1) The 'AmigaOS 4.1 Final edition' splash screen, which is normally shown before WB is loaded, does not appear at all.

2) The lower screen resolutions (below 800x600, e.g. 640x480) are not shown. I already tried to adjust the frequencies from Screenmode preferences, but did not get them to work. Also tried to use -RB/+RB, but with those settings any resolution did not work.

I already consulted Hans but he did not have a recipe for these issues. He said there may be some timing issue, with the card or my display (Eizo Multiscan S1931). Other Radeons I have used earlier did not show anything like this with the Eizo, though.

Has anyone here encountered similar problems with a 6450 (or it's later incarnations 7450/8450/R5 230) or other Radeon HDs, and possibly found some solution...?

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Re: Radeon HD 6450
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/26 21:45
From a dying planet
Posts: 4478
@Gregor

I had problems getting the max output out of my card, since ScreenMode prefs has a bug and DDC (auto-detect settings) didn't cut it.
I actually had to play around with the Hz setting manually to get it to show up.

i.e.
DDC always set
MODE=2560x1440@60
but that phased out my monitor and no resolution came up.
I had to go down one Hz
MODE=2560x1440@59
and it works.

Your monitor may phase out aswell, but the other way round.

Also make sure that VSYNC AND HSYNC are set according to your monitors limits...

You could try to play around with the setting in DEVS:Monitors and see if that helps.

These are my tooltypes, yours will vary
Quote:

CMPLENGTH=21
BOARDNAME=Radeon HD 7900 Series
VSYNCMIN=50
VSYNCMAX=76
HSYNCMIN=30000
HSYNCMAX=88000
MODE=640x480@60
MODE=640x480@75
MODE=640x512@75 ; E-UAE
MODE=640x512@60 ; E-UAE
MODE=720x400@70
MODE=800x600@60
MODE=800x600@75
MODE=832x624@75
MODE=1024x768@60
MODE=1024x768@75
MODE=1152x870@75
MODE=1280x512@60
MODE=1280x720@60
MODE=1280x800@60
MODE=1280x1024@60
MODE=1280x1024@75
MODE=1600x900@60
MODE=1680x1050@60
MODE=1920x1080@60
MODE=2560x1440@59
DISABLEFAKENATIVE=Yes
INTERRUPT=Yes


CAVE:
If you manually adapted your screenmode prefs, DO NOT SET DDC in Screenmode prefs or it will f*** up your settings again.

_________________
People are dying.
Entire ecosystems are collapsing.
We are in the beginning of a mass extinction.
And all you can talk about is money and fairytales of eternal economic growth.
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Re: Radeon HD 6450
Just popping in
Joined:
2020/3/29 14:21
From Finland
Posts: 98
@Raziel

>Your monitor may phase out aswell, but the other way round.
>
>Also make sure that VSYNC AND HSYNC are set according to your monitors limits...
>
>You could try to play around with the setting in DEVS:Monitors and see if that helps.

I did already try, within the limits my monitor allows... There is quite a narrow range for the vsync, only 59-61Hz (with DVI). With DP the range would be much wider but it is not supported.

With Ubuntu there are no problems, so this is purely a software problem with AmigaOS and MorphOS. But knowing the developer teams for OS4.1 and MOS are separate, it is peculiar have they have both succeeded to create the same problem... Industrial espionage?-)

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Re: Radeon HD 6450
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2006/11/26 21:45
From a dying planet
Posts: 4478
@Gregor

I'm using DVI myself but don't have such a narrow VSYNC window.
I can use all hz...why is it limited for you?

Care to share your monitor specs?

taken from Eizo manual
Quote:

Chapter 1 Features and Overview

Thank you very much for choosing an EIZO color LCD monitor.

1-1 Features

o Dual-input compliant (DVI-D and D-sub mini 15-pin connectors)
o DVI digital input (TMDS) compliant
o Horizontal scan frequency: Analog: 24.8 - 80 kHz, Digital: 31 - 64 kHz
o Vertical scan frequency: Analog: 50 - 75 Hz, Digital: 59 - 61 Hz (VGA text: 69 - 71 Hz)
Resolution: 1280 dots × 1024 lines
o Stereo speakers*1
o BrightRegulator function incorporated
o FineContrast mode to allow the best mode for screen display
o Ultra slim bezel


Unfortunate that it is so limited, not much space to play in...

...and if i'm seeing that right (as long as the monitor manual i found is correct) your card can do higher resolution than your monitor (1920x1080 to 1280x1024)---otoh there is no mentioning of a HDMI port, so...


Edited by Raziel on 2021/12/3 7:56:29
Edited by Raziel on 2021/12/3 8:00:38
_________________
People are dying.
Entire ecosystems are collapsing.
We are in the beginning of a mass extinction.
And all you can talk about is money and fairytales of eternal economic growth.
How dare you!
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Re: Radeon HD 6450
Just popping in
Joined:
2020/3/29 14:21
From Finland
Posts: 98
@Raziel
>I'm using DVI myself but don't have such a narrow VSYNC window.
>I can use all hz...why is it limited for you?

I don't know... I just copied the limits from the specs. But I already tried to slightly exceed the vsync limits but all I reached was an error window from my monitor (blinking the sync value out of range).

>Care to share your monitor specs?

Sure, here they are:

Resolutions
1280 x 1024 full picture 1:1, 1024 x 768, 800 x 600, 720 x 400 640 x 480, scalable

Horizontal frequency
24,8-80 kHz (Digital: 31 - 64 kHz)

Vertical frequency
50-75 Hz (Digital: 59 - 61 Hz)

Dot Clock
135 MHz (Digital: 108 MHz)

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Re: Radeon HD 6450
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Joined:
2020/11/17 12:08
From Slough
Posts: 256
They definitely didn't do any industrial espionage, not least because the HDMI port output DOES work on MorphOS and DOESN'T work on Hans's OS4 driver.

BTW if you don't have a VGA output, you probably still have the header for a VGA cable, it was an external part on these boards.

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Re: Radeon HD 6450
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2006/11/26 21:45
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Posts: 4478
@Gregor

...and your monitor prefs?
(DEVS:Monitor/your-monitor - tooltypes)

_________________
People are dying.
Entire ecosystems are collapsing.
We are in the beginning of a mass extinction.
And all you can talk about is money and fairytales of eternal economic growth.
How dare you!
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Re: Radeon HD 6450
Just popping in
Joined:
2020/3/29 14:21
From Finland
Posts: 98
@NinjaCyborg

>They definitely didn't do any industrial espionage, not least because the HDMI port output DOES work on MorphOS and DOESN'T
>work on Hans's OS4 driver.

I was just kidding... Hans told he used some old Linux code as starting point, and the MOS team probably did the same. But maybe they were more lucky to choose a code where the timings for the HDMI were already correct.

>BTW if you don't have a VGA output, you probably still have the header for a VGA cable, it was an external part on these boards.

No, there is no VGA header on the board, just the holes for soldering it. The endplate does not have a hole for the VGA connector, either.

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Re: Radeon HD 6450
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Joined:
2020/3/29 14:21
From Finland
Posts: 98
@Raziel

>..and your monitor prefs?

CMPLENGTH=6
BOARDNAME=Radeon
VSYNCMIN=59
VSYNCMAX=61
HSYNCMIN=31000
HSYNCMAX=64000
MODE=640x480@60
MODE=800x600@59
MODE=1024x768@60
MODE=1280x1024@60
DISABLEFAKENATIVE=Yes
INTERRUPT=Yes

And before you ask: there is no other monitor file in my DEVS:Monitors to mix up things... I Keep the not-currently-used ones in the Storage/Monitors.

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Re: Radeon HD 6450
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@Gregor

Quote:

And before you ask: there is no other monitor file in my DEVS:Monitors to mix up things... I Keep the not-currently-used ones in the Storage/Monitors

Just like me, order is everything

Ok, since your list of screenmodes is as tidy as it could be, let's change that
you can try the following

CMPLENGTH=6
BOARDNAME
=Radeon
VSYNCMIN
=59
VSYNCMAX
=61
HSYNCMIN
=31000
HSYNCMAX
=64000
MODE
=640x480@59
MODE
=640x480@60
MODE
=640x480@61
MODE
=800x600@59
MODE
=800x600@60
MODE
=800x600@61
MODE
=1024x768@60
MODE
=1280x1024@60
DISABLEFAKENATIVE
=Yes
INTERRUPT
=Yes

That's what i did when i tried to find the working 2560x1440 setting.

The only other thing that comes to mind, is to plug a foreign system (linux, windows) into that monitor and see if you can read out the settings from there.

Oh and ScreenMode Prefs is nice enough to calculate the Horizontal frquency it's *using* to display a certain screenmode (only if the resolution is available, though)

My 640x480 setting @60 Hz (as per my monitor file tooltypes) is actually using a horizontal frequency of 30.97 kHz and vertical frequency of 59 Hz(!) as per ScreenMode prefs, which would just be out of reach of your monitor (and something i blame ScreenMode prefs for for incorrectly calculating).

_________________
People are dying.
Entire ecosystems are collapsing.
We are in the beginning of a mass extinction.
And all you can talk about is money and fairytales of eternal economic growth.
How dare you!
– Greta Thunberg
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Re: Radeon HD 6450
Just popping in
Joined:
2020/3/29 14:21
From Finland
Posts: 98
@Raziel
>Ok, since your list of screenmodes is as tidy as it could be, let's change that.
>you can try the following

I tested the 640x480 with those different frequence definitions but unfortunately without succes... The 800x600 was already working with 59Hz (but not with the initial 60Hz).

>The only other thing that comes to mind, is to plug a foreign system (linux, windows) into that monitor and see
>if you can read out the settings from there.

No need to do any pluging as all modes are, as already mentioned, working with Ubuntu in the same machine . I checked the frequences from my monitor's info window for 640x480 and they were 31.4 kHz and 59.9 Hz. I do not know whether the Screenmode prefs accepts decimal values but I will try...

Edit: The decimals are not accepted... If 59.9 is defined in tooltypes, it is changed to 59.


Edited by Gregor on 2021/12/3 15:02:01
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Re: Radeon HD 6450
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2020/11/17 12:08
From Slough
Posts: 256
where do you get your ubuntu image from?

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Re: Radeon HD 6450
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Joined:
2020/3/29 14:21
From Finland
Posts: 98
@NinjaCyborg

Do mean how to install Ubuntu on X5000....? It's a long story .
Please have a look here:

https://forum.hyperion-entertainment.c ... 395f4ac383ac5bdd1d82f1fe1

There you can find detailed instructions how to install any of the currently available PPC Linux distros on X5000. Ubuntu is not anymore the best option.

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Re: Radeon HD 6450
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/26 21:45
From a dying planet
Posts: 4478
@Gregor

Ah, i missed he Ubuntu reference, sorry.

Bah, too bad.
I'm pretty sure AmigaOS' way to calculate the frequencies is just a tad off, which leads to the frequencies being always outside your monitors values.

Bad comes to worse since you only have that tight window of VSync possibilities.
I'm pretty sure you could make it work with just a little bit more frequency space...but, damn.

I take it you tried the "Detect Settings automatically"?
(The setting i warned you about earlier?)

You can always try (backing up your monitor file beforehand) and see if that changes anything, but i doubt it.

...


Well, christmas is coming...time to get a new monitor(?)

_________________
People are dying.
Entire ecosystems are collapsing.
We are in the beginning of a mass extinction.
And all you can talk about is money and fairytales of eternal economic growth.
How dare you!
– Greta Thunberg
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Re: Radeon HD 6450
Just popping in
Joined:
2020/3/29 14:21
From Finland
Posts: 98
@Raziel

>I'm pretty sure AmigaOS' way to calculate the frequencies is just a tad off, which leads to the frequencies being always
>outside your monitors values.
>
>Bad comes to worse since you only have that tight window of VSync possibilities.
>I'm pretty sure you could make it work with just a little bit more frequency space...but, damn.

Well, after all, this is not a big problem as I usually do not need low screen resolutions... Just some games cannot now be run directly under OS4.1, e.g. 'Hibernated'. But it still runs ok with E-UAE 1.0.0 if run from cli (it opens then a 800x600 screen), instead of trying to boot it directly from the .adf file.

>I take it you tried the "Detect Settings automatically"?

Yes, I used originally that setting, before I started to test the manually defined modes.

>Well, christmas is coming...time to get a new monitor(?)

After reading your signature, I would newer dare to waste the resources of our planet for such... !

But seriously speaking, I already have at home a relatively new Nec, with the same max resolution as this old Eizo at my work room. It has no frequency limitations for the digital mode. I hope I get an opportunity test it with this 6450...

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Re: Radeon HD 6450
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/26 21:45
From a dying planet
Posts: 4478
@Gregor

I got a replacement UHD monitor for testing and it shows the same problem now.

Refresh rates:
56-61 Hz (VSync)
30-135 kHz (HSync)

All of the resolutions work upto 2560x1440, but it refuses to display at 3840x2160.

Plugged in with a HDMI cable 4K@60Hz HighSpeed with Ethernet (on Windows 10 i can only use DP)

Windows 10 works, however interestingly shows the max. resolution with a frequency of 29 or 30 Hz(?), which shouldn't be possible due to the monitors borders

I do believe Windows 10 does some magic to make the resoultion display.

Unfortunately setting it to @30 or @30D (for double scan) doesn't help.
(I didn't check the reduced blanking options)

It's not the gfx card (RadeonHD 7950), it could be the cable (need to find some other hardware i can use with HDMI), but i'm pretty sure it's the driver.

Has anyone else been able to use 3840x2160 on a ng amiga?

Probably time to file a bug report

_________________
People are dying.
Entire ecosystems are collapsing.
We are in the beginning of a mass extinction.
And all you can talk about is money and fairytales of eternal economic growth.
How dare you!
– Greta Thunberg
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