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AK DataType vs. WarpDT
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/6 20:39
From California, Unitied States
Posts: 429
With the new enhancer 2 update there are several datatype updates. I've been using WarpDT. Is there an advantage to using the AK Datatypes vs. the WarpDT ones? Some of the WarpDT types have preferences that you can change. Can you do that with AK Datatypes?

What's the consenses, AK Datatypes or WarpDT?

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Re: AK DataType vs. WarpDT
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Joined:
2014/6/29 15:12
From Montserrat
Posts: 517
AK-TIFF, AK-JFIF and AK-PNG now support datatype writing functions (DTM_WRITE and DTST_RAM).

Multiviewer has the functionality to scan for AK-Datatypes and save images with them


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Re: AK DataType vs. WarpDT
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2006/12/4 23:15
Posts: 2303
@Spectre660

Quote:

Multiviewer has the functionality to scan for AK-Datatypes and save images with them


THis is not exactly true, MultiViewer scans for *ALL* writable datatypes. Writable in context means that an empty object can be created with DTST_RAM and that the datatype supports DTST_WRITE. This means the datatype is suitable for file conversion allowing you to 'saveas' the new file type. Image and sound conversion is supported at present.

MultiViewer does this by scannng the classes available in Classes:Datatypes/ not by inspecting the list of installed Descriptors (in Devs:Datatypes) so you can use WarpDT for decoding and the OS datatypes or AK-Datatypes (or both) for writting.


Edited by broadblues on 2021/3/30 10:39:46
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Re: AK DataType vs. WarpDT
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@ktadd

AK-Datatypes has preference program.

If you have WarpDT I'd say you'd see little benefit in a switch to AK-Datatypes

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Re: AK DataType vs. WarpDT
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Joined:
2006/12/2 23:57
From Athens/Dublin
Posts: 1011
It would be helpful if there was a comparison text between system's datatypes and AK-datatypes, coming with the Enhancer, so to see the benefit.

Until then, I will stick with the default system datatypes. They cover just fine my needs and I don't put my system stability at risk.

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Re: AK DataType vs. WarpDT
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2006/12/4 21:53
From www.amigakit.com
Posts: 598
Quote:
I don't put my system stability at risk.


I haven't seen any reports that AK-Datatypes risk system stability. Surely this subtle suggestion plants seeds of doubt unncessarily in users minds?

AK-Datatypes are a *very* mature software product since 1995 and have recently been updated to the very latest modern standards.

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Re: AK DataType vs. WarpDT
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From Northern Ireland
Posts: 1009
I'm taking the switch everything out and test approach.
No way we will iron out the bugs of the actively developed components otherwise.

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Re: AK DataType vs. WarpDT
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2010/3/28 15:03
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Posts: 705
@ktadd
The WarpDT datatypes only has preferences in the Amiga68k version.
Here the question is fast and stability but not all OS4 users we have the Enhacer pack and you can use the WarpDT datatypes in all your Amiga systems with the same license.

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Re: AK DataType vs. WarpDT
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From Athens/Dublin
Posts: 1011
Quote:
I haven't seen any reports that AK-Datatypes risk system stability. Surely this subtle suggestion plants seeds of doubt unncessarily in users minds?

As much as I know AK datatypes since 1995 were 68k only, and they were implemented again for PPC, included in the Enhancer.
As much as I know, it's the first time people are using those datatypes on OS4, so IMO, they can't be mature.
Also, there is no documentation in Enhancer Package to speak on what those datatypes do, what are the benefits and why I should use them. So, IMO, I wouldn't like to have something on my system that I don't know/understand it's purpose.

And please stop trying to find enemies or conspiracies everywhere. I don't seed any doubts to anyone. It is my choice to use them or not and it's my freedom to talk about my choices in a forum.

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Re: AK DataType vs. WarpDT
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@walkero

There has been little change of the OS3 datatype system to that which is used in OS4. So datatypes initially created for OS3 work almost identically on OS4. Hence maturity on AmigaOS is universal whether it be OS3 or OS4.

AK-Datatypes since it's inception in 1995 is one of the longest standing datatype system predating OS4. Andreas Kleinert who created it is a very high calibre developer. In the early 2000's it has had ports to next generation PPC, namely MorphOS and PowerUp cards. This is the first time it is native for OS4 and we put it through many, many months of beta test. It has had TIFF, PNG and JPEG updated to the very latest standards and now is on par with modern OS platforms.

My point is that your comment could be (unintentionally) misconstrued by some that AK-Datatypes can cause a system to become instable. There is no reports of this being the case and if we had a report, we would be nimble to resolve it.

I noticed that you suggested to another user in a previous post to revert to the WarpDT datatypes when he had a crash. We wouldn't be releasing AK-Datatypes if we thought that it was unstable in any way.

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Re: AK DataType vs. WarpDT
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Joined:
2006/12/2 23:57
From Athens/Dublin
Posts: 1011
Quote:
I noticed that you suggested to another user in a previous post to revert to the WarpDT datatypes when he had a crash.


I suggested that while I was trying to help him figure out where the problem is. I don't have anything against AK and Enhancer. I proposed him to step by step revert things, until he finds a way to resolve the problem.
That's why the forums are and that's what we do here. Help each other. Are we allowed to do that?

I didn't blame anyone and anything.

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Re: AK DataType vs. WarpDT
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Joined:
2009/12/31 17:27
From Westerwald
Posts: 108
My WarpDT install has a prefs program for OS4.
Have the ak-datatype altivec support?
Speedup here on X1000 with WarpDT and altivec enabled was very good.

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Re: AK DataType vs. WarpDT
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/6 20:39
From California, Unitied States
Posts: 429
@broadblues
Quote:
AK-Datatypes has preference program.

Is this the case for OS4? I don't see a preferences program in SYS:Prefs.

Quote:
If you have WarpDT I'd say you'd see little benefit in a switch to AK-Datatypes

I've done some testing and both Datatype systems seem to work well on my A1000, but I think for now I'll stick with WarpDT as it's supports Altivec. Unless someone comes up with a compelling reason why I should switch right now.

I do appreciate AmigaKit's and AEON's continued support and I will keep a close eye on developments. Without their support OS4 would be dead.

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Re: AK DataType vs. WarpDT
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Joined:
2006/12/6 20:39
From California, Unitied States
Posts: 429
@amigakit and @walkero

No need for the back and forth. People are free to use them or not. I don't see any reports of the AK Datatypes causing any issues and I've done a fair amount of testing since the release and have had no stability issues. They seem to be working fine.

In my testing I did find one small quirk though. I have the descripters for the AK datatypes in Devs:Datatypes and I have both the Warp and AK datatypes in SYS:Classes. This allows me to use Multiview to save pictures to converted formats with either family of datatypes.

When I save with AK datatypes it converts the picture just fine but creates a blank icon for the saved picture. When I save with Warp datatypes it saves the picture using the def_icon I have setup for the picture format. It would be nice of AK datatypes used the def_icon as well. This was tested with tiff, jpg and png.

Note that if I delete the icons for each after the save, the AK datatypes will use the proper def_icon to show an icon. The Warp dataypes will display an mp3 icon from def_icon instead. This seems to indicate that Warp datatypes is using a different header in the converted file than AK datatypes. This only occured with png. tiff and jpg showed the proper def_icon. I might need to add new header info to my def_icons to get png to work properly.

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Re: AK DataType vs. WarpDT
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2006/12/4 23:15
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@ktadd

Quote:

In my testing I did find one small quirk though. I have the descripters for the AK datatypes in Devs:Datatypes and I have both the Warp and AK datatypes in SYS:Classes. This allows me to use Multiview to save pictures to converted formats with either family of datatypes.


When you say Warp do you mean the actuall WarpDT classes or the OS classes ? (which were contributed by the author of WarpDT but are not exactly the same as them).

I ask mainly for clarity but also as I don't recall the WarpDT ones having the save option

Quote:

When I save with AK datatypes it converts the picture just fine but creates a blank icon for the saved picture. When I save with Warp datatypes it saves the picture using the def_icon I have setup for the picture format. It would be nice of AK datatypes used the def_icon as well. This was tested with tiff, jpg and png.


Actually I can confirm this. This can't be related directly to the datatype classes thermselves though as they have no input on to which icon is saved.

Checking the code in MultiViewer I see that I have a specific function to put the icon that uses the basenam of the saving datatype to decide which icon to use. There was a reason for that but I forget what it was now. Perhaps because of a need to be 68k compatable I don't know.

I ought to be able to determine the icon from the saved file though... if you have the time could you submit a bug report against MultiViewer? (not akdatatypes the bug is defo Mvers)

Quote:

Note that if I delete the icons for each after the save, the AK datatypes will use the proper def_icon to show an icon. The Warp dataypes will display an mp3 icon from def_icon instead. This seems to indicate that Warp datatypes is using a different header in the converted file than AK datatypes. This only occured with png. tiff and jpg showed the proper def_icon. I might need to add new header info to my def_icons to get png to work properly.


That's odd, both files are definetly PNGs? The might be small differences but the files are savee with libPNG in both cases as far as I know. Though I'm loath to go and compare the code!


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Re: AK DataType vs. WarpDT
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Joined:
2006/12/6 20:39
From California, Unitied States
Posts: 429
@broadblues
Quote:
When you say Warp do you mean the actuall WarpDT classes or the OS classes ? (which were contributed by the author of WarpDT but are not exactly the same as them).

Good catch. The WarpDT classes aren't able to save. It's the OS classes by the same author that I'm refering to. In classes I currently have the WarpDT, AK-Datatypes and OS4 datatypes. When I refered to the WarpDT when saving it was acatually the OS4 datatypes.

Quote:
Actually I can confirm this. This can't be related directly to the datatype classes thermselves though as they have no input on to which icon is saved.

.....stuff deleted

I ought to be able to determine the icon from the saved file though... if you have the time could you submit a bug report against MultiViewer? (not akdatatypes the bug is defo Mvers)


Thanks for looking into it. I'll submit it later tonight when I have time.

Quote:
That's odd, both files are definetly PNGs? The might be small differences but the files are savee with libPNG in both cases as far as I know. Though I'm loath to go and compare the code!

Loading both files into MultiEdit I can see PNG in both headers. I'll have to load them into a binary editor to see the difference in the header lines. Currently I have the following pattern setup in def_icons:
\x89PNG\x0D\x0A\x1A\x0A
But I also have pattern match set to #?.png after that line so I would think it would be reconized by the filename as I named it with a .png
Hmm...I'll have to look into it further when I get more time.

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Re: AK DataType vs. WarpDT
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Joined:
2006/12/23 18:30
From UK
Posts: 74
Just to clear a few things up:

1. WarpDTPrefs comes in OS3, OS4 and MorphOS native versions, albeit only since May 2020 (it was 68K only before then).

2. The WarpDTs have never supported DTM_WRITE - I've always felt the datatype system doesn't lend itself well to saving, partly due to lack of control over encoding options.

3. The OS4 datatypes were originally written by me, but I don't tend to get involved with them much anymore (only to fix bugs that were my fault), for various reasons. DTM_WRITE support was added more recently by another developer. I got a bit sick of other developers slowing my code down and breaking stuff.

4. The stability issues mentioned probably are in reference to the ancient original AK datatypes, which were indeed a bit flakey (especially akTIFF), even if they were "mature". I would hope the new ones are more stable and complete than those.

If you care about DTM_WRITE, either stick with the datatypes supplied with OS4 or try the AK datatypes. Otherwise, you are probably better off with the WarpDTs if you have already purchased them - they outperform the OS4 supplied datatypes for reading images.

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Re: AK DataType vs. WarpDT
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Joined:
2006/12/6 20:39
From California, Unitied States
Posts: 429
@all

Thanks to all who supplied the great info. Based on this info and my understanding of how things work (someone correct me if I'm wrong) I'm going to put the WarpDT descriptors in the DEVS:Datatype directory and leave the datatype classes from AK-Datatype, WarpDT datatype and OS4 Datatype in the SYS:Classes/Datatypes directory.

If my understanding it correct, this will then use the WarpDT datatypes for reading files and, using Multiviewer, I can select either AK Datatypes or OS4 Datatypes to save files.

The only question I still have left unaswered is: Is there a preferences program for the AK-Datatypes for OS4? I can't find one.

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Re: AK DataType vs. WarpDT
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2006/12/2 23:57
From Athens/Dublin
Posts: 1011
Quote:
The only question I still have left unaswered is: Is there a preferences program for the AK-Datatypes for OS4? I can't find one.

Haven't seen one.

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Re: AK DataType vs. WarpDT
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2009/5/1 18:57
From Czech Republic
Posts: 1322
@walkero

Probably hasn't been released yet.

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