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Wayfarer -NEW BROWSER-
Just popping in
Joined:
2015/9/27 9:38
From Germany
Posts: 10
https://wayfarer.icu/
Any chance to get this browser ported to OS4.1FE? Sources will eventually land on github....

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Re: Wayfarer -NEW BROWSER-
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/9/11 12:31
From Russia
Posts: 6445
No chance because such beasts need changes/fixes in the compiler/kernel and some other parts. No one currently works on anything about compilers or SDK for OS4 (even fixing small bugs to adtools which were already reported a year or more ago wasn't taking into account), taking aside no one does any work related to ObjectC support in our GCC for OS4, and ObjectC is in which Wayfarer coded.

Questions about when/if update or SDK will be released, remain unanswered from Hyperion owner's side, meaning no one in charge gives a shit for any of the reasons.

So sorry, it just not in the interest or/and capabilities of current aos4 developers/owners.

There needs someone who:

1). will works on the compiler again. Fixing bugs. Many reported already which need to be fixed, but nothing was done. Sebastian seems to lose interest.

2). even if the kernel under AEON's hands now, developing of it was and still very slow. I can't see how such a speed will help to produce anything which needs changes in. Taking aside if it ever will be released. I just didn't see how with such speed of developing anything can be done

3). no os4 updates mean no fixes possible.

That all should be the joint work of OS4 developers and those ones who will work on the browser.

Big fat NO, sadly.

And btw, if there were any capable developers left who can fix and implement necessary stuff for compiler and kernel (instead of making that damn shity Tabor port), then a browser can be done and without Wayfarer sources. We just didn't have any more devs who can do so.

We left to enjoy what we have :)


Edited by kas1e on 2020/10/6 21:48:07
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Re: Wayfarer -NEW BROWSER-
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/20 16:26
From Norway
Posts: 2824
@kas1e

The way things are now with the few company’s left fighting over IP, and future that uncertain, its hard to see anyone want invest in anything. Cloanto will not do anything if they win, that’s for sure. He has not done anything in years. With exception of collecting dust.

Quote:
2). even if the kernel under AEON's hands now, developing of it was and still very slow. Bugs fixed after a year, or never, so I can't see how such a speed will help to produce anything which needs changes in. Taking aside if it ever will be released. I just didn't see how with such speed of developing anything can be done

I guess we will get an update around AmiWest about it. No need to speculate.
Quote:
3). no os4 updates mean no fixes possible.


I don’t agree with that one, AmigaOS4.1 is modular, kernel modules can be replaced, or the libraries and devices can be patched.

but it does not make sense to do that, if all we do is create unofficial versions, that be latter be replaced by official once, we don’t know if things are dead or alive. It’s in a zombie state. And no way of telling what we should work on what we should not work on.

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Re: Wayfarer -NEW BROWSER-
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/9/11 12:31
From Russia
Posts: 6445
@LiveForIt
Quote:

Cloanto will not do anything if they win, that’s for sure. He has not done anything in years. With exception of collecting dust.


Does not matter who fights, for now, updates of os4 can happen does not matter of the state. It's just this "fighting" giving to us as explaining why no shit is being done. But the reality is that there no one capable free worker anymore who will do an update :) Costel probably was the last one, but I didn't see him alive except some posts on the os4welt forum. And Tim seems just better to ignore all the questions, in favor of just making an update to show that Hyperion alive (on that question they didn't answer too, which was asked many times).

Quote:

I guess we will get an update around AmiWest about it. No need to speculate.


I am a beta tester, so no speculation here, I see by beta-releases what happens from first hands.

As for AmiWest, haha, is there anyone for real think SSolie will come up with anything but just talks about what will be done ?:) Final products released to users matter. If there none, no needs to make a fuzz and presentation on amiwest talking who owns what, and who sue who, and how to make presentations about presentations. Talking about all that multicore which for real have no needs in amiga computer (as there can't be real multicore) are make no sense too. There lot of important stuff to fix, but no, better again made bananas.

And I don't know why with ZX-Spectrum, or Commodore64, or with AtariST everything in that terms is fine and ppls develops things in all fronts be it software or hardware with human logic and love. Updates, communication. But not in amigaos4. So many lawers and businessmen, and nothing. Just take a look at how careful and logically done ZX-Spectrum Next company. I just love to see updates about the current state every month on my mail, without begging them to communicate with me. But hey, its amigaos4, it's alright to make human and logical things in another way :)

Quote:

I don’t agree with that one, AmigaOS4.1 is modular, kernel modules can be replaced, or the libraries and devices can be patched.


Everything possible. There just no sense to do so, indeed.

Quote:

we don’t know if things are dead or alive.


I can browse adtools repo to see nothing changes or fixed in the last half of the year. For some bugs to fix in native amigaos4 threading implementation I beg everyone everywhere to fix some crap, offering 50, than 100$, and nothing. Maybe 200? But I somehow feel money does not matter. There just no capable devs anymore.


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Re: Wayfarer -NEW BROWSER-
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/20 16:26
From Norway
Posts: 2824
@kas1e

Any way I think there is few things needs fixing in EUAE, something I think look at next. Network support is broken for ages. I think kind of know how UAE work more or less now.

Also I'm thinking about writing a patch for screenmode 320x200x8 in workbench, I hate that that more is unavailable.

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Re: Wayfarer -NEW BROWSER-
Quite a regular
Joined:
2013/10/17 16:21
From Hungary
Posts: 647
@kas1e
Absolutely. The lawsuits are just a convenient excuse, there have been no first party updates to OS4 since 4.1FEu1. I'm glad I'm not the only one bummed by all the effort put into supporting an incompatible CPU for a motherboard that will likely never likely make its way to the users.

Some of the modern C++ features required by WebKit could be done on the compiler side similar to the native threads, but if simple pull requests like fixing the SDK download URL can't be merged, then what are we even talking about? :)

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Re: Wayfarer -NEW BROWSER-
Site Builder
Joined:
2006/12/2 23:57
From Athens/Dublin
Posts: 706
Unfortunately, communication was never a strong ability of the companies behind OS4. Unless this long time silence hides something else. I don't know.

In my opinion, working on releasing a low cost, entry level motherboard that supports AmigaOS 4 should be the number 1 priority, because this will bring more users to the platform. And this could help companies and developers to continue support it more and make fixes and releases.

Back on topic, I don't see a way to have the Wayfarer supported in OS4 any time soon. But there could be a continued work on Odyssey. It seems that any updates are stopped. Are we going to see more updates on that? Is there someone working on newer webkit port?

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Re: Wayfarer -NEW BROWSER-
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/9/11 12:31
From Russia
Posts: 6445
@LiveForIt
Quote:

Any way I think there is few things needs fixing in EUAE, something I think look at next. Network support is broken for ages. I think kind of know how UAE work more or less now.


I thinking about working on UAE too a bit with all my non-coder skills : at least i thinking about making everything not freezes when UAE running on other screen, and you drag the main screen behind : in this case UAE totally stops, till you not realise the mouse button.

And, will be nice to have ability to open things on big screens like 1920x1080 with scaling algos.

@BSZili
Yeah.. Law suits and covid-19 are reasson for all kind of excuses. But strangely, in all other hardware and software projects related to not amigaos4, they somehow deals with all issues bringing by covid-19. That all execuses, for sure.

And yeah, i just didnt' get what the problem to fix SDK url download too. I just can't even think about, as it make me mad :)


@Walkero
Quote:

But there could be a continued work on Odyssey. It seems that any updates are stopped. Are we going to see more updates on that? Is there someone working on newer webkit port?


It works already in general , and next what i want before is to update latest few libs , and then port aros's core (as new webkits are slow, too big, too different to be implement it to odyssey). With new and latest webkit only new browser can be done.

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Re: Wayfarer -NEW BROWSER-
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2009/5/1 18:57
From Czech Republic
Posts: 1168
@walkero

Quote:
Unfortunately, communication was never a strong ability of the companies behind OS4.

Communication is key in any endeavour that targets the public. The current "I'm not telling you" attitude was adopted by Hyperion years ago, as a result of users criticizing the hollow announcements and constantly missed deadlines. At that time Hyperion said something along the lines of "OK, we'll now shut up, concentrate on work, and will only tell you when something is done". This sort of worked while people received smaller updates over AmiUpdate, so they knew things were being worked on, and they were happy and looking forward to the next big thing.

This is no longer the case, as no updates are released to the public whatsoever. There's no sign of life, existing customers are kept in the dark and the potential ones are put off by the lack of information. The entire OS betatesting programme has become a farce because updates made years ago are still unavailable to us, although they must have been betatested to death by now. Heck, it takes less time to test the Tesla spacecraft than AmigaOS4 components!

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Re: Wayfarer -NEW BROWSER-
Site Builder
Joined:
2006/12/2 23:57
From Athens/Dublin
Posts: 706
@all
We should better stick on topic guys, and open a separate thread to discuss things about companies and communication.

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Re: Wayfarer -NEW BROWSER-
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/9/11 12:31
From Russia
Posts: 6445
@walkero
We stick on topic : no new browser because it needs kernel/sdk modifications, which lead us to communication and updates from Hyperion :)

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Re: Wayfarer -NEW BROWSER-
Site Builder
Joined:
2006/12/2 23:57
From Athens/Dublin
Posts: 706
@kas1e
Don't get me wrong. Just, it would be better topics to not be derailed. Let's discuss about Hyperion on other thread.

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Re: Wayfarer -NEW BROWSER-
Just popping in
Joined:
2018/12/28 7:02
From Oulu, Finland
Posts: 26
@kas1e

Yes, that's unfortunately the case, we should have one 'Piru' in OS4 team too to get things done... he did amazing job for MorphOS development to enable Wayfarer.


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Re: Wayfarer -NEW BROWSER-
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/6 0:37
From Wellington
Posts: 299
@kas1e

>> even if the kernel under AEON's hands now, developing of it was and still very slow. I can't see how such a speed will help to produce anything which needs changes in. Taking aside if it ever will be released. I just didn't see how with such speed of developing anything can be done<<

Quick correction. The kernel is owned by me and controlled by the ExecSG Team lead by Steven Solie. A-EON has no ownership and is not involved. As for progress, I'm pleased to say it is going well. Steven will provide a full update at Amiwest 2020.

TrevorD



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Re: Wayfarer -NEW BROWSER-
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/9/11 12:31
From Russia
Posts: 6445
@Trevor

Quote:

Quick correction. The kernel is owned by me and controlled by the ExecSG Team lead by Steven Solie. A-EON has no ownership and is not involved.


For users, AEON = Trevor, so not a big deal anyway as everyone thinks AEON it's you :)


Quote:

As for progress, I'm pleased to say it is going well.


What you mean by going well? Developing is very slow! The last beta release was long ago. Some things still need to be sorted out (like much slower speed of new scheduler in warp3dnova apps) and so on. Saing it "going well" to the users without any other info, it reminds again those amiga-words games like now users will think that there some "uber-cool features to be expected" and will be released tomorrow.

Was there anything being done about that DMA code added to the kernel? I mean, on last year's Amiwest there were talks that Jamie add DMA engine to the kernel, but is there any component using it? At least in the kernel itself? I think the answer is NO because it is still unfinished, right ?:) Dropped on the half of the way.


Quote:

Steven will provide a full update at Amiwest 2020.


Oh no, not again! :)

It will be talking about plans and the future, which never happens, or take tens of years for simple things. Nothing interesting. He probably will make a presentation about how to make presentations and presentations about him being team lead so everyone will know it (as that seems very important for him to know that we all know that he is team lead of anything).

Anyway, what about going sane and logical way: Without all that amigaos4 games with words, just giving to users honest and open status of developing every 3 months for example? No, not that status "is going well", but concrete technical issues, how problems are fixed, who works on what, when, why something takes longer, etc, etc.

But, that is ritorical, i am sure that will not happen. I do not know why no one when it connected to amigaos4 think it is necessary to communicate with users offten and in honest and open way.

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Re: Wayfarer -NEW BROWSER-
Supreme Council
Joined:
2006/11/16 19:25
From Sweden
Posts: 3199
Please create a new thread if you want to discuss anything else than the what the original topic was about.

I will moderate this thread accordingly from this point.

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Re: Wayfarer -NEW BROWSER-
Just popping in
Joined:
2012/1/10 14:35
Posts: 91
@orgin

To summarize it:

The sources of Wayfarer are not free

They are tightly connected to MorphOS-Changes (and would require changes at OS4 kernel too)

The Compiler would need improvements to get it happen (in theory)

and even then you would need a skilled developer to do it

In short: no chance ;)

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