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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/30 18:43
From Norway
Posts: 2484
@rogue

Is it you and your brother who is working on the netbook alone? or are there other people working on that project?

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Quite a regular
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2010/5/16 12:20
From Grimsby, UK
Posts: 950
I am sure it doesn't need pointing out as most of us know this - but always good to remind ourselves.

The majority of computer users these days are consumers, consuming media content online, when it comes to productivity they might use Word/Excel/Paint etc... with limited knowledge of how to make the most of them.

A running common office suite (which LibreOffice most certainly is) for word processing, spreadsheets, database and drawing tools combined with a well-known web browser in this case Mozilla (call it what you will) will satisfy most user's needs regards of the OS underneath as long as its fast, stable, modern, familiar and meets their general requirements.

As stated previously there is lots to do to make this happen - but you have to start somewhere.

PS. For me personally, network support is also important and there is much scope for improvement in this particular area as well, for other people it might be for example printer support.

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Quite a regular
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2006/11/24 17:14
Posts: 624
Quote:

vox wrote:
Seems that slowness of progress is what hurt.


Why, actually? Between 1994 and 2001 there was virtually nothing happening in terms of hardware, and only 3.5 as a milestone. Your Amiga will not suddenly stop doing what it is doing now just because something takes longer.

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
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Quote:

Antique wrote:
@rogue

Is it you and your brother who is working on the netbook alone?


No.

Quote:
or are there other people working on that project


Yes.

(sorry, Kosh answer I know :) )

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Amigans Defender
Joined:
2006/11/26 23:16
From Canada
Posts: 986
Quote:
Also is netbook alive as concept would be needed clarification, and is it scheduled after announced projects or some work will be done paralelly.

These kinds of comments just bug me. Yes, work is done in parallel as it always has been done and always shall be done. There is more than two guys working on things. Don't worry about these kinds of things. That is my job.

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Home away from home
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2006/11/30 18:43
From Norway
Posts: 2484
@rogue

Good enough answer for me.

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Quite a regular
Joined:
2008/3/11 8:29
From Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 868
Hey Team just wanted to say a fine thread

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Home away from home
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From England
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vox wrote Quote:
Sadly, from progress so far it looks uncertain point of next year to reach most, if not all of it. Seems that slowness of progress is what hurt.

As a software developer (on AW.net who has his own customers to worry about) said, what really hurts users/customers is not understanding why things take longer than promised, and that tends to cause them to become frustrated & assume the worst.

The best thing Hyperion/etc could do is keep users informed about when & why a project is suddenly taking a lot longer than expected. No need to go into great detail, just a sentence or two to explain the basic issue. Even if it was just "we underestimated the complexity of the project, so it is taking longer than expected".

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Not too shy to talk
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2008/12/20 17:26
Posts: 259
@ChrisH

+1 !!!!!!

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2006/11/29 8:09
From Lyon, France
Posts: 1097
@Thread

Rogue wrote

Quote:
Your Amiga will not suddenly stop doing what it is doing now just because something takes longer.


This is exactly the point. Some people do not even use an Amiga (nor an Amiga-NG by the way) and spend most of their time complaining on forums about everything.

How many are really using their Amiga on a daily basis. Mine fulfills all my needs.

Do you see on other platforms this sort of whinning? Do you see Mac OS X uer or Linux user complaining all the day on forums to know where is the next version of their OS or where is the new version of the hardware?

No, it's a specific Amigan thing.

Use your system as you always do, as I always do.

I really do not see the point coming on forums all the day long just to make complaints whereas some do not even use an Amiga.

If I were Rogue (and the AmigaOS 4 team), I'd stop answering some aggresive people whose goal is just to bash anything about AmigaOS 4.1 (or anything related to the Amiga) spreading rumors in order to get the truth (what a childish behaviour...).

Constructive critics are ok, for the rest...

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Quite a regular
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2006/11/24 17:14
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Quote:

ChrisH wrote:

The best thing Hyperion/etc could do is keep users informed about when & why a project is suddenly taking a lot longer than expected. No need to go into great detail, just a sentence or two to explain the basic issue. Even if it was just "we underestimated the complexity of the project, so it is taking longer than expected".


That is, unfortunately, not always possible.

We need to be highly adaptive, or we would have gone under already.

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Not too shy to talk
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2008/12/20 17:26
Posts: 259
@Rogue

"Something like Timberwolf is essential for a netbook IMO. We'll make an effort to have it run decently on that hardware. But we still need some more infrastructure in the OS for that, and we're building towards it."

Nice to read AOS4 R&D info.




Putting pieces together:
-Once the Gallium3D is ready, AOS4 GFX subsystem will go through major rework to fully use modern HW. (something like this was once said)
-Netbook will have less CPU power than SAM440, therefore it would be crusial to take everything out of the built in GPU.
-While Gallium3D already exist for AOS4 amongs core developers, it is not simple to make it to take the maximum out of both Radeon series and PowerVR built in some PPCs.
-And it has been said that Gallium3D will support/utilize new multicore capable AOS4.
-etc, etc...

It starts to become clear why things are taking longer than expected. A lot of things depend on each other. Next feature release for AOS4 will be big. One day. (minor updates and bugfixes might still appear while people wait for those new things)



my 0.2cents about LibreOffice:
-It’s a little slow on my 2x2Ghz x86 but more stable and more compatible than AbiWord on x86
-I personally would be using LibreOffice to handle some documents that need to be compatible with the mainstream
-Even just some document corverter kit built from LO would be enough for me (perhaps it’s all my SAM440 could handle anyway)
-I personally would first support Amigas native application writers (like Cinnamon writer), because I prefer light weight SW

Anyway having both is nicer than having just either one or no native tools for word processing.
Traditionally people have managed to optimize SW speeds greatly on Amigas (vs the code elsewhere).
Perhaps the trend continues and even those heavy ports start to fly.

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Amigans Defender
Joined:
2006/11/19 17:45
From Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 2090
Quote:

ChrisH wrote:
vox wrote Quote:
Sadly, from progress so far it looks uncertain point of next year to reach most, if not all of it. Seems that slowness of progress is what hurt.

As a software developer (on AW.net who has his own customers to worry about) said, what really hurts users/customers is not understanding why things take longer than promised, and that tends to cause them to become frustrated & assume the worst.

The best thing Hyperion/etc could do is keep users informed about when & why a project is suddenly taking a lot longer than expected. No need to go into great detail, just a sentence or two to explain the basic issue. Even if it was just "we underestimated the complexity of the project, so it is taking longer than expected".


I agree.

Its frustrating, especially the headline made were

"Hyperion announces Amiga Netbook for mid-2012 commercial release"

I understand things slip, but just an occassional update as you say, would stop the bitching.


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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Just popping in
Joined:
2011/4/14 21:06
Posts: 1
SSolie and Hyperion made positive moves in this direction with the blogs and support forums, more information posted by these means would definately be appreciated just to keep the feeling that things are moving (which I'm sure they are anyway...)

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Just popping in
Joined:
2006/12/2 11:14
From South Florida, USA
Posts: 196
For me the big news at AmiWest was the stuff lylehaze is working on, Xena and MIDI. My Amiga is "My Amiga",,,,,not a PC.

LO was a pleasent announcement but certainly not critical to my Amiga experience. Takes all kinds I guess.

I hope I will be able to return to AmiWest next year. Good times, good people.
Thanks to SACC and everyone that made it happen.

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Quite a regular
Joined:
2009/6/1 14:11
From Germany
Posts: 733
I have here LibreOffice under Linux running on my X1000 and it is pretty fast

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/5/19 14:23
From England
Posts: 3553
@Rogue Quote:
That is, unfortunately, not always possible.

We need to be highly adaptive,

I'm afraid that I don't understand your answer, but also appreciate that you may not be able to say more either.

Although I wondered if your "highly adaptive" could have been a hint that Hyperion doesn't always know (in advance) when some people will be able to work on a project, in which case some delays could be due to people not being able to work on a project as much as was expected. If that is so, that I really don't see the harm in saying so.

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Guest_
Quote:
Why, actually? Between 1994 and 2001 there was virtually nothing happening in terms of hardware, and only 3.5 as a milestone. Your Amiga will not suddenly stop doing what it is doing now just because something takes longer.


3.5 was a nice compilation of progress so far, 3.9 kind of also and 4.0 was a real milestone, final in 2006. From 2006 to 2008 were maybe zombie days with progress made with OS 4.1, and surely, this should be most exciting times as things finally shape up.

1994 to 2001 was Commodoreless dead end days, but yet it was interesting with firs PPC cards, kernels, apps, MorphOS, first PPC Linux ... for those that could afford it. There were by far more companies in the game, and yes, first Hyperion and ClickBoom titles were exciting but stretched poor Classic to the limit ...

Anyway, back to present, thanks for all the hardwork, but dont feel so angry, and do some better PR. Its better to see some more frequent less exciting news and starting rhytm was good. Surely netbook not being cancelled, X1000 last run, new model expected, Xorro card and LibreOffice could be better presented to the public. With some future progress reports, frequent public tests (like it was with Timberwolf) and some expectations - which now kind of move to 2013.

As well as silent left of RadeonHD 4000 series, when they are current kind of default for X1000 and SAM460. If Warp3D driver is stop gap, and Gallium will surely include 9000, HD 4000 cards then it should be said temporarily we do effort to support most modern cards and since that driver release, X1000 and SAM460 are offered with such cards. Assuming that could be the point.

Community is small, some competition still exists, but it seems some clear path of progress and small updates would satisfy most of community, including users and supporters and competition of any kind. The same applies to MorphOS and AROS just as well.

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/24 17:14
Posts: 624
Quote:

ChrisH wrote:
@Rogue Quote:
That is, unfortunately, not always possible.

We need to be highly adaptive,

I'm afraid that I don't understand your answer, but also appreciate that you may not be able to say more either.

Although I wondered if your "highly adaptive" could have been a hint that Hyperion doesn't always know (in advance) when some people will be able to work on a project, in which case some delays could be due to people not being able to work on a project as much as was expected. If that is so, that I really don't see the harm in saying so.


Ah, the joys of writing. There's the trouble, I can never tell how my words will be interpreted.

No, what I meant is that we need to be able to adjust to the situation. The new Gallium/Mesa release is such an example; I'd rather let it rest for a month until the final version of 9.0 is out than try to work with a developer release only to find that something substantial has been changed.

Hope that's clearer.

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Re: AmiWest 2012 News?
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/24 17:14
Posts: 624
Quote:

vox wrote:
If Warp3D driver is stop gap, and Gallium will surely include 9000, HD 4000 cards then it should be said temporarily we do effort to support most modern cards and since that driver release, X1000 and SAM460 are offered with such cards. Assuming that could be the point.


Gallium will not support any Radeon 9000 based card. It requires pixel shaders 2.0 or better, and the 9000 don't have that.

The point in supporting the current HD5xxx and HD6xxx is simply because these cards can still be obtained from a normal store.

Quote:
Community is small, some competition still exists, but it seems some clear path of progress and small updates would satisfy most of community, including users and supporters and competition of any kind. The same applies to MorphOS and AROS just as well.


So far, there has been no change of plan in what will entail 4.2, so I don't really see where that path is not clear enough. I also don't see why people try to draw negative vibes out the Warp3D announcement. It just adds something that you didn't even expect to get before.

Seriously, what's the problem here? Delays? They will always happen. They happen in big-budget companies as well as with no-budget companies, and everything in-between. I am a big fan of the game ARMA, and I was thrilled last year when they announced part III. In the meantime, their projected release date ("Summer 2012") has come and gone. Their schedule for the alpha release has been extended to end of the year. Am I disappointed? Of course I am. Do I say they have broken some promise? No, because these things just simply happen.


Edited by Mikey_C on 2012/10/26 13:41:11
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