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Re: Updater locking up
Just popping in
Joined:
2006/11/27 22:06
From UK
Posts: 184
so much for talking about updater...

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Re: Updater locking up
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Joined:
2007/9/11 12:31
From Russia
Posts: 7041
@Mattew
Quote:

A few here will agree with your point of view and others will not see it as a problem.


As you can see from this topic, as well as from the beta list NO ONE agrees with replacing system components. NO ONE. Only you :) And maybe Chris F. also as he seems also involved in Enhancer.

No one else. NO ONE. If 99% of users and beta testers and developers say to you that replacing system os components with the same name and the same versioning (damn!) is bad, then probably is it something to consider, no?

The truth probably is that you just hope to overwrite OS step by step so as to have your own OS, which of course, will never happen because of many reasons.

You even want to replace system components which on OS4 are MUCH better. I will not say which ones, as you know which ones, users will be facepalmed about later.

So why make that mess? Why?


PS. btw, is it you who prepare Enhancer beta, or someone else? I mean, I tried to understand who is that disorganized that always forgets to include the latest ogles2, even if many of us many times ask to do so. It can't be you, I just can't believe that you 5 or how many times include everything, but not ogles2.library. And I am sure you again will forget to include the 3.1 version this time. It's like you do it specially, while I sure (i hope) you not.

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Re: Updater locking up
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/6 20:39
From California, Unitied States
Posts: 394
@amigakit
First off, I really appreciate all the effort that is being undertaken to provide the enhancer package which is providing us with frequent and continued enhancement to the AmigaOS4 and Classic AmigaOS experience. Great work!

Now I'd like make some comments and suggestions based on over 20 years of experience as a Quality Engineer/Manager with a large test equipment manufacture.

I understand there are some OS components that are not easily renamed due to integreation into the OS. Such things as the sound.datatype and to me that's fine. From a users point of view these types of changes need to be able to be easily identified. I have some suggestions below on how to do that.

Having said that, I beleive that using the same name should only occur when there is a compelling reason to do so. In the case of Format and Clock, as examples, I'm not sure what the compelling reason would be. As we have seen with the latest release of the OS4 update2, especially with Clock, the Enhancer version gets overwritten. This causes the user the hastle of having to re-install the enhancer component. Not a very nice thing to do to the user.
I'm not understanding what the issue is with renaming these types of components to something like EClock (Enhancer Clock) and Formater?
This would aviod these types of conflicts. In most cases this has been done and it's great.

For example, MultiView and MultiViewer. This is great because I can still use both these applications. I have MultiView and MultiViewer configured differently and I use the one that is best configure for my particular need at the time.

I apprecaite the argument and the flexibility that a user can rename some of the enhancer components but this then causes a problem with updater knowing about them and causes pain for the user when they want to update. Why not just avoid that issue by naming them differently where possible?

I also appreciate the argument that you can programs with the same name in different places, however this then causes a problem with the AppDir: feature in the OS. You will never be sure which version is run when you use AppDir: and there may be scritps written that depend of certiain features of one version of the program and not the other version.

I appreciate the fact that the user can choose not to install the enhancer version. However, this can deprive the user of the great enhancements it does provide and why should a user have to make that choice if it's not necessary and simply choosing a different name would solve the issue and allow your enhancer features to be more widely accepted and used. I as a user like having the option of using the enhanced or non enhanced version.

Last I'll address the version issue. As a user I'm not as concerned about the version number being similiar to non-enhancer equivalents but am more concerned about being able to easily identify and Enhancer version vs. an Non-Enhancer version. The black icons help with some programs but some people may not like them and it doens't help with things that don't have an icon.

Here are a couple of suggestions that I think could help this issue. Implementing one or more of these would solve the issue.

1. Include an indicator that it is an Enhancer or A-EON version in the version string like you did with the Format program. That way I can right click on the icon, select Version and easily identify that it's an Enhancer supplied program.

2. Add a file comment that indicates it's part of the Enhancer package.

3. Add a column to Updater that indicates the Enhancer component will replace an existing AmigaOS component. or have a filter selection in the drop down menu that will list only the components that replace existing OS components. Then at least the user can easily identify those components if an update causes issues. This would also provide the user the ability to know which components to check if another AmgiaOS update is released.

I hope you will take these inputs and suggestions into consideration as they are easy things to do and will produce a lot of good will from your users.

Once again, I really apprecaite the contribution and effort over the last 5 years. It has kept things moving during the dry spell of OS Updates and provides a valuable service to the comunity. Keep up the good work

@All
Sorry for such a long post.

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Re: Updater locking up
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2006/12/4 23:15
Posts: 2284
@Raziel

Now *that* would be copyright infringement.


But they are really two very different things.


You can't copyright a process , (but you can patent it, but I don't think any patents applay in this case) and you can't copyright somethings name, (though you can sometimes trademark it, again no trademarks involved here).

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Re: Updater locking up
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Joined:
2011/7/20 20:01
From In the sticks
Posts: 178
@derfs

Quote:

so much for talking about updater...


lol, this made me laugh, sorry Derfs

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Re: Updater locking up
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/6 20:39
From California, Unitied States
Posts: 394
@derfs
Quote:
so much for talking about updater...

Sorry for contributing to hijacking the thread.
Updated also crashed on startup sometimes for me as well.
This is on a X1000 with AmgiaOS4 Final Update 2 and fully up to date Enhancer install using Updater version 53.70. Version 53.65 tends to work better but it can lock itself up in the middle of using it. In any case it sounds like the issues are known and a solution is being worked on.

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Re: Updater locking up
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Joined:
2006/11/27 22:06
From UK
Posts: 184
@ktadd

Go here if you want to try out an updated listbrowser.class to see if it fixes your issue.

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Re: Updater locking up
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/6 20:39
From California, Unitied States
Posts: 394
@derfs
Quote:
Go here if you want to try out an updated listbrowser.class to see if it fixes your issue.

Thanks. Seems to have fixed my issues with Updater 53.70. Started it up 12 times and played around with settings. No crashes!

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Re: Updater locking up
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2006/11/26 21:45
From a dying planet
Posts: 4194
@broadblues

Right...mixed some things up, it seems.

@all

Yeah, sorry for contributing to derailing this thread, got carried away

...+1 vote for me to not "enhance" any already available (and still developed) program with the same name

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Re: Updater locking up
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2018/1/4 10:56
From Italy
Posts: 387
@Raziel
I don't know the subject well but as a buyer after an amigaos 4.1FE update2 + hotfix update I expect the whole Enhancer package to be updated accordingly because it has to be up to date with the operating system and not the other way around.
Sure it will probably take some time and normal but I expect this to be done.
Installing packages individually is a temporary solution.
Updating the package seems normal to me and needs to be adapted to the new update.

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Re: Updater locking up
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@white

The problem is not that Enhancer shouldn't get updated, but that Enhancer is "updating" stuff that is still developed by another party (Hyperion) by simply overwriting certain system files (which is bad...as nearly everyone in this thread comes to the same conclusion...do not "enhance" system files that are still developed by another party and are still actively maintained and do not belong to you...that is just going to produce produce problems, as we all have already suffered --> Clock, Format etc.)

Or, in other words...Enahncer should pick their own names for their programs (like Multiview-->Multiviewer).

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Entire ecosystems are collapsing.
We are in the beginning of a mass extinction.
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Re: Updater locking up
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Joined:
2006/12/2 23:57
From Athens/Dublin
Posts: 907
@all
I would like to ask to stop derailing this topic, which is about the Updater and the way it works.


Quote:

@amigakit wrote
Quote:

You should be aware that some users have an alternative view and want to install everything from the Enhancer Software.

Quote:

Lots of others have differing opinion and the choice is in there for the user to decide whether to install Format or other components or not. It is not up to anyone to dictate what users do and whether or not they support a software package or development with their hard earned cash.


@kas1e wrote
Quote:

Almost everyone keeps saying that replacing system components is the wrong idea. Almost EVERYONE. Beta testers, your developers, all users.


@NinjaCyborg wrote
Quote:

@amigakit you are wrong, kas1e and billyfish are right. Notice how there's no one here or on any other forum defending your way of doing it? But lots of people criticizing it. That means, you're wrong and you should acknowledge that. There's no shame, just accept it and move on.



Unless you have results of a poll or actual feedback you got from the AmigaOS 4 users, you can't know if the majority or not agree or disagree. So, until we have this data, we discuss something on a totally wrong base. And if you want to discuss this, please open a new topic, and do not derail this one.

Thank you all for your understanding.

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Re: Updater locking up
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Joined:
2008/3/15 2:00
From Alberta, Canada
Posts: 374
My question is this ... Should I be able to download more than one item on the list that shows up in Updater?

Trying Updater v53.70 with the new listviewer.gadget that has been release for testing.

I have been selecting more than one item and encountering the following issue ...

Updater v53.70 launches fine and the list is populated fine. If I select more than one item to download and hit download, the download seems to progress properly, but the list does not update when it is finished.

When it is done, the list still has all the items, but the list appears to be greyed out or ghosted as if it is in a deactivated state. Several buttons are blank as if disabled or ghosted.

I waited several minutes and the status does not change.

My system is not frozen, and I can quit Updater but can't relaunch Updater. I have to reset the machine if I want to use Updater again.


Update... Same with Updater v53.65 ....

It is like Updater goes to sleep after downloading the selected items.


I just don't get it...

On December 21, 2019 I installed EnhancerSoftware Special Edition 1.5 from my CD (everything except the SDK). Updater was working fine, and I made many updates using Updater.

Then AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition Update 2 came along.

In order to do a clean install, I formatted my SYS: partition, which wiped out my OS4 install and my Enhancer install.

Updater has been acting up ever since I updated the OS.

Maybe I am missing some obscure required components.

I have what I would consider to be a minimum install of Enhancer. Do I need to install some Enhancer datatypes or libraries?

---
redfox


Edited by redfox on 2021/1/22 2:08:55
Edited by redfox on 2021/1/22 2:35:26
Edited by redfox on 2021/1/22 2:37:26
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Re: Updater locking up
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@redfox

What does "minimum install of Enhancer" mean?

Did you cherry-pick some components you wanted and left the rest (from any enhancer release) or did you install the "core" package?

iirc the core package was released because it features all mandatory stuff to successfully run "AmiStore" and "Updater".

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People are dying.
Entire ecosystems are collapsing.
We are in the beginning of a mass extinction.
And all you can talk about is money and fairytales of eternal economic growth.
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Re: Updater locking up
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2009/5/1 18:57
From Czech Republic
Posts: 1310
@Raziel

Quote:
iirc the core package was released because it features all mandatory stuff to successfully run "AmiStore" and "Updater".

No, the main reason was to allow developers to use the new components in their own software. Previously, developers who used some of the Enhancer classes in their program had to rely on their users to buy the Enhancer Software pack. Releasing the Core for free has removed this obvious barrier.

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Re: Updater locking up
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2006/12/4 23:15
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@redfox

No these are bugs I have seen too in the past.

it sounds like in your case it hasn't removed the disabling of the window after completeing the download. Perhaps it is still waiting for a sub thread. This might be why you can't restart it, as it hasn't really quit. A tool like ranger would tell you if it's still there in the background.

Ironically the fact you could close the window whilst it's greyed out and nominally disabled is probably also a bug!

I can exactly reproduce your bug in test I just did. I'll raise a mantis about it.

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Re: Updater locking up
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Re: Updater locking up
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@redfox

What version of application.library do you have installed?


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Re: Updater locking up
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From Alberta, Canada
Posts: 374
@broadblues

Thanks for checking further.

application.library 53.30 (05/01/2021)

From AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition Update 2 Hotfix


redfox

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Re: Updater locking up
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@redfox

Hmm interesting. Do you have the enhancer NotificationsServer running ? Do you see a notification just before the hang?

Just to be sure have you tested since installing the hotfix? (and rebooting)

I only see the issue with 53.29 and 53.31 (beta versions) and not if NotificationServer is running so that the internal notifications a showiing.

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