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MIDI keyboard
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/2 0:31
From Poland
Posts: 280
Hi,

Following my successful tests with XSane and HP Printer/Scanner (Thanks Edgar ) I'd like to try something totally new to me. Its MIDI keyboard connected to my SAM440 Flex. I have almost zero knowledge about this topic but my plan is to buy smth not expensive, with 61+ standard, dynamic keys. Maybe M Audio Keystation 61 III? The older model is reported to work with AOS4.1 and I may buy a used one(half year old).
Probably it will be only fun/hobby for me but maybe something more for my son.
I have not decided yet but I'd like to know what is important/how to connect to AmigaOne/SAM. So...

USB MIDI - does it mean its In/Out connector?
MIDI In/Out - needed if USB MIDI is present?
MIDI Thru - probably not needed to me
USB to host - ?
USB to device - ?

I tried several programs (HD-Rec, Horny, Bars n Pipes) so far but have lots of different problems. Since I have no keyboard I use SoftSyn so far...but its a topic for another thread...

Thanks

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Re: MIDI keyboard
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2009/5/1 18:57
From Czech Republic
Posts: 1186
@mr2

There are a few options. If you plan to use the keyboard to play SoftSyn, Timi or Phonolith sounds (i.e. work with software instruments available for OS4), all you need is a fully class-compliant USB MIDI control keyboard. Plugging this in one of your Sam's USB ports, the camd.library will make the keyboard's MIDI IN/OUT ports available in the system. You'll then select the keyboard's MIDI IN port (referred to as a "cluster" in the CAMD terminology) for input, and the software instrument's cluster as output. Done.

If, on the other hand, you plan to use the keyboard to control a real MIDI instrument, you will either a) have to buy a class-compliant MIDI interface to connect the instrument to, or b) use the keyboard along with a modern USB-capable MIDI instrument that, again, is fully class-compliant and does not need dedicated driver software. Option a) is generally safer, as modern MIDI gear tends to be rather complex and often requires a driver. Option a) will also make your setup more extensible, allowing for older MIDI instruments to be plugged. I recommend the M-Audio MIDISPORT 2x2 or 4x4 MIDI interface - both work very well under OS4.

As for the size of the keyboard, 61 keys only make good sense if you or your son can play the piano, i.e. if the idea is to use your setup mainly as a traditional keyboard instrument. If, on the other hand, the plan is to use the keyboard merely to enter MIDI notes/data into a sequencer, a 61key-er is a complete waste of space and money.

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SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
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Re: MIDI keyboard
Just popping in
Joined:
2007/2/1 13:02
Posts: 95
@mr2

The good choice (for me) is Keystep 32 keys it has a complete connection (second-hand ~ 70€)

I have Keystep with :
- volca Keys (second-hand ~ 70€)
- volca Sample (second-hand ~ 70€)
- volca FM (second-hand ~ 70€)
- volca bass (second-hand ~ 70€)

I use midi solution quadra thru for connect my 4 volca on keystep and keystep on amiga with usb

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Re: MIDI keyboard
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Joined:
2009/5/1 18:57
From Czech Republic
Posts: 1186
@sinisrus

Yes the KeyStep is fantastic, I have it too in my X5000-based home studio. Ideal to drive MIDI instruments as well as modular setups via CV/Gate.

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Re: MIDI keyboard
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/2 0:31
From Poland
Posts: 280
@trixie, sinisrus

Quote:
As for the size of the keyboard, 61 keys only make good sense if you or your son can play the piano, i.e. if the idea is to use your setup mainly as a traditional keyboard instrument. If, on the other hand, the plan is to use the keyboard merely to enter MIDI notes/data into a sequencer, a 61key-er is a complete waste of space and money.


The initial idea was to play piano thats why standard keys, etc... but then I thought maybe connect it to my SAM and have both worlds? The cheapest Yamaha piano has only USB to host connector, thats why this thread started
I noticed almost new M-Audio Keystation 61 III for 80 euro and it would allow me and my son to learn to play and have fun with Amiga. It has USB MIDI, 1x MIDI Out and is USB compliant...

As for the rest of your post, man, I have to learn a lot thanks for the input about Timi and Phonolith. Horny was unable to choose/use Softsyn from Depot.

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Re: MIDI keyboard
Just popping in
Joined:
2007/2/1 13:02
Posts: 95
@mr2

for me too it's new i don't know anything about it (I started only a few weeks ago)

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Re: MIDI keyboard
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2009/5/1 18:57
From Czech Republic
Posts: 1186
@mr2

Quote:
The initial idea was to play piano thats why standard keys, etc... but then I thought maybe connect it to my SAM and have both worlds?

Of course you can have the best of both worlds! Myself, I can't play so the KeyStep (with its 32 mini-keys) is ideal for my setup.

When reading up on keyboard specs, double-check that it does not mention a driver anywhere. Also, make sure that the vendor that sells you the keyboard provides hassle-free service as regards returns. I had a problem with the AKAI Max25 control keyboard, which is advertised as class-compliant but the OS4 CAMD MIDI driver does not see the ports when connected over USB. So the thing had to go.

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Re: MIDI keyboard
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/2 0:31
From Poland
Posts: 280
@trixie

Thanks, Trixie. I will try to play a little more with HD-Rec, Horny and BnP before.

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Re: MIDI keyboard
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2009/5/1 18:57
From Czech Republic
Posts: 1186
@mr2

I find the OS4 version of BarsnPipes extremely flakey. It will sometimes lock up in the Note Editor, and the MIDI IN tool always gives me a crash when changing the connection. Plus, the interface is truly horrible. Horny, while much less powerful feature-wise, at least resembles a relatively modern sequencer and lets you do basic composing without having to reboot all the time.

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SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
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Re: MIDI keyboard
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/2 0:31
From Poland
Posts: 280
@trixie
Quote:
I find the OS4 version of BarsnPipes extremely flakey. It will sometimes lock up in the Note Editor, and the MIDI IN tool always gives me a crash when changing the connection.


Good to know. Plus I was not able to load any MIDI file. I have a tool/module inside Accesories(?) dir but BnP does not see it.

Quote:
...the interface is truly horrible


Yeah, it burning my eyes!

Quote:
Horny, while much less powerful feature-wise, at least resembles a relatively modern sequencer and lets you do basic composing without having to reboot all the time.


Ok, so I have to try it with other than SoftSyn sounds

Is there a guide or doc for HD-Rec? It looks fantastic and has a working sound module built in.

One more question. The fastest way to see if keyboard works with camd.library?


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Re: MIDI keyboard
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2009/5/1 18:57
From Czech Republic
Posts: 1186
@mr2

Sorry, never used HDRec, so I can't comment on that

Quote:
the fastest way to see if keyboard works with camd.library?

Install the PianoMeter utility from Christian Buchner's CAMD Toolkit. Start the program, select the very first command from the menu, choose your keyboard's MIDI IN cluster, and then press a few keys on the MIDI keyboard. If it works with CAMD, the utility's virtual keyboard gadget will show the pressed keys.

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Re: MIDI keyboard
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/2 0:31
From Poland
Posts: 280
@trixie

Quote:
Install the PianoMeter utility...



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Re: MIDI keyboard
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/6 20:39
From California, Unitied States
Posts: 332
@mr2Quote:
Is there a guide or doc for HD-Rec? It looks fantastic and has a working sound module built in.

In 2012 psykicko did a pretty good video on using HD-Rec. You can find it on YouTube:

Getting into HD-REC v0.10 (for amiga)

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Re: MIDI keyboard
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/2 0:31
From Poland
Posts: 280
@ktadd

Yes, I've already seen it. Nice overview.

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Re: MIDI keyboard
Just popping in
Joined:
2006/11/24 14:19
From North Florida, near the big bend
Posts: 218
@mr2

Sorry I'm late, I had some trobule logging in.

"Classic" MIDI ports (5 pin DIN) are serial at 31250 baud.
USB Midi ports are MUCH FASTER. so if all others things are equal, take the USB port.

Most devices with both will let you use the MIDI ports as an interface if you're connected by USB, so you get a couple classic ports for free.

camd.library is now part of a normal OS4 install.
camdmidi.usbfd is now part of a normal OS4 install.

There are a set of tools (mostly CLI) on OS4Depot called "camdtools".
From there you can find a command line program called "showclusters" that will list all MIDI clusters. if you plug in a compatible device, it will show up in that list.

I have a newer version that re-prints all cluster names on every change. So that is convenient. I don't think I've uploaded it anywhere yet.
Ask if you want it, very short simple program.

SoftSyn was a good effort, but I gave it up. "Timi" does a MUCH better job. It is a contribution, so you can find it on your OS4 install disks.

A good "simple" MIDI player is CAMDPlay, also from OS4Depot.
It LOOKS simple, but it took along time to get it just right.

I will answer questions as time allows, especially now that I can login here again (Thanks George!)


LyleHaze

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Re: MIDI keyboard
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2009/5/1 18:57
From Czech Republic
Posts: 1186
@LyleHaze

Quote:
I have a newer version that re-prints all cluster names on every change. So that is convenient. I don't think I've uploaded it anywhere yet. Ask if you want it, very short simple program.

Please do share it!

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Re: MIDI keyboard
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/26 21:45
From a dying planet
Posts: 3829
@LyleHaze

You got PM

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We are in the beginning of a mass extinction.
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Re: MIDI keyboard
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/2 0:31
From Poland
Posts: 280
I'm happy to report that my M-Audio Keystation 61 MK3 MIDI keyboard arrived and it works out of the box

PianoMeter showed the pressed keys and Horny listed M-Audio as in and out in a settings just from the start. Then I changed output to SoftSyn and voila...the sounds flowed. I have to dig AOS4FE CD out and install Timi.

The size of the keyboard is just perfect. After more tests I will report it as 'working' in "USB devices that work..." thread.

Thanks for everyone involved :)

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Re: MIDI keyboard
Just popping in
Joined:
2006/11/24 14:19
From North Florida, near the big bend
Posts: 218
@trixie

ClusterList.lha has been uploaded to OS4Depot.
I think it's in Drv:Misc/ like most of the CAMD stuff.

Source included, it's really quite simple.

LyleHaze

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Re: MIDI keyboard
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2009/5/1 18:57
From Czech Republic
Posts: 1186
@Lyle

Thank you!

By the way, now that we now that the ".in" / ".out" port name suffixes are not mandatory, is there a programmatic way in camd.library to determine which ports (clusters) are meant for input and which are for output?

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