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NetSurf issues & wishes
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/5/19 13:23
From England
Posts: 3553
Reporting some small issues I've noticed with NetSurf:

* If I edit the "Hostlist menu", the changes aren't visible in the menu until closing & restarting NetSurf. However, changes to "Hotlist toolbar" ARE applied once the Hotlist window is closed. Could something similar be done for the "Hotlist menu"?

* Highlighting (non-editable) text can be rather fiddly, at least partly due to the 'grab scrolling' feature (which I do actually like a lot). Often I fail to select the first character (too far right), or grab-scroll instead (too far left), especially when the first letter is a thin one like "l". Would it be possible to make the "selectable area" slightly wider than the text itself? Alternatively, is there a keyboard qualifier that disables grab-scrolling?

* Is it possible that double-clicking a (non-editable) piece of text will highlight the whole word? (And possible the whole line/paragraph if you do it again?) Like happens for editable text. Would be a partial work-around for difficulties highlighting text.

* There seems to be some kind of crash related to opening a window from the Hostlist, and then closing that window. I'll report more info when I have it...

* In the Hotlist window, dragging & dropping individual sites onto a folder ("directory"?) puts it at the top of that folder's contents. IMHO it makes more sense to put it at the bottom, although I'll concede that Firefox has flipped & flopped on this behaviour...


I've mentioned the following before, but just repeating them since they may have gotten lost that in long thread:

* (SOLVED) I have "Open new tabs in background" ticked, but this causes "Project/New tab" to also open in the background, which doesn't make much sense to me. If I open a new (empty) tab, it's because I want to do something straight away (like paste an address). And there is typically no "content" to load in the background, unlike a link.

* (SOLVED) "tab_new_session:1" does not bring the screen to the front, when the window is already open. This behaviour seems annoyingly inconsistent, since it does come to the front if NetSurf wasn't already running. I'm not sure whether the best solution is to (1) stop NetSurf bringing it's window/screen to the front when it is first created when opening a link (is that even possible... or desirable?), or (2) Simply always bring the window/screen to the front (when opening a link), despite "Open new tabs in background" (seems a bit strange & potentially unwanted).

* Is it possible for double-clicking a site in the Hotlist window to obey "tab_new_session:1"? Perhaps by using ARexx to send itself a message to open that link? (I guess you'd need to open a (temporary) second ARexx port, to be able to send yourself a message... or start a "disposable" process/task to do the job.)

* IMHO NetSurf should provide some work-around to the "Please insert volume http:" requester issue, whether that be temporarily assigning http: to RAM:, or installing your HTTP handler as part of NetSurf's installation. The latter would be better, since it'd mean such images (should) appear, but the former would be much much easier to implement (if you can't face the extra installer complexity).

(That's it... for the moment:)


Edited by ChrisH on 2016/9/3 13:54:17
Edited by ChrisH on 2016/9/3 13:56:07
Edited by ChrisH on 2016/9/3 13:59:24
Edited by ChrisH on 2016/9/3 14:00:53
Edited by ChrisH on 2016/9/3 14:02:52
Edited by ChrisH on 2016/9/3 14:04:05
Edited by ChrisH on 2016/9/3 14:04:50
Edited by ChrisH on 2016/9/16 15:47:11
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Re: NetSurf issues & wishes
Amigans Defender
Joined:
2006/11/17 22:40
From England
Posts: 3228
@ChrisH

Quote:
* If I edit the "Hostlist menu", the changes aren't visible in the menu until closing & restarting NetSurf. However, changes to "Hotlist toolbar" ARE applied once the Hotlist window is closed. Could something similar be done for the "Hotlist menu"?


Yes, in fact it was and I keep enabling/disabling it, but it makes it all a bit unstable. I intend to re-write the menus to use menuclass at which point dynamic updating of the hotlist menu will be easy and should be reliable.

I can't promise when I'll get round to this though, when I started work on it I got distracted and re-implemented the context menus instead.

Quote:
* Highlighting (non-editable) text can be rather fiddly, at least partly due to the 'grab scrolling' feature (which I do actually like a lot). Often I fail to select the first character (too far right), or grab-scroll instead (too far left), especially when the first letter is a thin one like "l". Would it be possible to make the "selectable area" slightly wider than the text itself?


Probably not, but there is a solution. RISC OS has has an "adjust" option for selections, which allows you to add or remove to already highlighted areas. It's pretty cool, and because NetSurf started out as a RISC OS web browser the adjust functionality is implemented. If you click/drag a highlighted area using the middle mouse button, it will make it bigger/smaller. It's easy to add that missing character, and also highlighting over many screens of text is much more convenient.

Quote:

Alternatively, is there a keyboard qualifier that disables grab-scrolling?


No, I don't think so.

Quote:

* Is it possible that double-clicking a (non-editable) piece of text will highlight the whole word? (And possible the whole line/paragraph if you do it again?) Like happens for editable text. Would be a partial work-around for difficulties highlighting text.


This may already be on the bugtracker. If it isn't, add it.

Quote:

* There seems to be some kind of crash related to opening a window from the Hostlist, and then closing that window. I'll report more info when I have it...


Uh-huh.

Quote:

* In the Hotlist window, dragging & dropping individual sites onto a folder ("directory"?) puts it at the top of that folder's contents. IMHO it makes more sense to put it at the bottom, although I'll concede that Firefox has flipped & flopped on this behaviour...


Yeah, weird. Bugtracker.

Quote:

* I have "Open new tabs in background" ticked, but this causes "Project/New tab" to also open in the background, which doesn't make much sense to me. If I open a new (empty) tab, it's because I want to do something straight away (like paste an address). And there is typically no "content" to load in the background, unlike a link.


Probably easy.

Quote:

* "tab_new_session:1" does not bring the screen to the front, when the window is already open. This behaviour seems annoyingly inconsistent, since it does come to the front if NetSurf wasn't already running. I'm not sure whether the best solution is to (1) stop NetSurf bringing it's window/screen to the front when it is first created when opening a link (is that even possible... or desirable?), or (2) Simply always bring the window/screen to the front (when opening a link), despite "Open new tabs in background" (seems a bit strange & potentially unwanted).


Probably needs to come to the front if tab_new_session:1. That should be easy enough.

Quote:

* Is it possible for double-clicking a site in the Hotlist window to obey "tab_new_session:1"? Perhaps by using ARexx to send itself a message to open that link? (I guess you'd need to open a (temporary) second ARexx port, to be able to send yourself a message... or start a "disposable" process/task to do the job.)


No, that's the whole "the hotlist doesn't know which window to open tabs in" thing. There's already a bug/feature report for that I believe.

Using ARexx doesn't make it any easier because it's triggered from the core.

Quote:

* IMHO NetSurf should provide some work-around to the "Please insert volume http:" requester issue, whether that be temporarily assigning http: to RAM:, or installing your HTTP handler as part of NetSurf's installation. The latter would be better, since it'd mean such images (should) appear, but the former would be much much easier to implement (if you can't face the extra installer complexity).


I'd rather the root cause was fixed.

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Re: NetSurf issues & wishes
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Posts: 125
Also check the pic here: https://postimg.org/image/4lr8rjz8r/ and notice the quicklinks. That still hasn't been fixed.

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Re: NetSurf issues & wishes
Amigans Defender
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From England
Posts: 3228
@Srtest

Try it with the OS4 default theme.

This is either a theme problem or a bug in speedbutton.gadget.
All I'm doing is attaching an Image* using SBNA_Image - there's no reason why it should truncate like that.

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Re: NetSurf issues & wishes
Just popping in
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Posts: 125
@Chris

Maybe the theme is the blame - even if so I'll remain with it as I'm just reporting. The question is how to get over it.

Edit: if it helps if I just add a couple of spaces at the end of the last word of a link then it adjusts correctly.


Edited by Srtest on 2016/9/4 5:14:02
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Re: NetSurf issues & wishes
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@Chris
I shall look at adding the things you suggest to the bug tracker later (putting this here as a reminder for me to do it). I'll also try to reproduce the Hotlist browser window open/close crash (when I'm not ripping a pile of audio CDs, which for some reason takes ages using LAME).

This is my second time replying (my login cookie expired while I was writing the first reply), so please excuse any terseness in this post...

Quote:
intend to re-write the menus to use menuclass at which point dynamic updating of the hotlist menu will be easy and should be reliable.

I can't promise when I'll get round to this though

I'm happy enough to know it's somewhere on your "to do" list :)

(And I just noticed my copy/paste missed the "I" at the start of your sentence - an example of how annoying it is, because I only notice it AFTER copying & pasting... and sometimes not even until after I Submit my post.)

Quote:
If you click/drag a highlighted area using the middle mouse button, it will make it bigger/smaller. It's easy to add that missing character

Thanks, and yeah it's a pretty cool little feature. (Although Windows can do something similar using Shift + LMB.)

Quote:
Probably easy.

I think you said that last time . Anyway, now that my request isn't hidden in a long thread, I shall assume it's somewhere on your "to do" list.

Quote:
I'd rather the root cause was fixed.

Well yes, of course. But if the root cause isn't going to be fixed for months/years, I thought a temporary work-around until then would provide a better experience for your users... Anyway, I have a feeling our discussion of this is going circular, so I won't comment on this issue any further.

Plus the issue is annoying common enough for me (every PC Gamer news item) that I shall probably try installing your HTTP Handler, rather than miss-out on pictures (or have to switch to Odyssey).

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Re: NetSurf issues & wishes
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@Chris Quote:

Quote:
Alternatively, is there a keyboard qualifier that disables grab-scrolling?

No, I don't think so.

Would it be possible to add it? (Or otherwise an optional GUI button to toggle grab-scrolling, like Firefox's Grab'N'Drag add-on provides?)

ALSO, is there possibility to add a menu option (or window gadget) to Iconise NetSurf? Such a feature would be quite handy. (I see there is an option for NetSurf to stay in memory when you quit it, but this seems a bit of a strange option - I'd rather have manual control (and a visible indication) of whether it's still running/loaded or not).


Edited by ChrisH on 2016/9/4 14:02:58
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Re: NetSurf issues & wishes
Amigans Defender
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From England
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@ChrisH

Quote:
Thanks, and yeah it's a pretty cool little feature. (Although Windows can do something similar using Shift + LMB.)


It can't move the start though!

Quote:

I think you said that last time . Anyway, now that my request isn't hidden in a long thread, I shall assume it's somewhere on your "to do" list.


OK, the "bring screen to front" when a new tab has opened due to a re-launch, is done. It only occurs if the new tab is active. I'm wondering whether it's more appropriate to always make this tab active.

New blank tabs are always immediately switched to now too.

Quote:

Plus the issue is annoying common enough for me (every PC Gamer news item) that I shall probably try installing your HTTP Handler, rather than miss-out on pictures (or have to switch to Odyssey).


You shouldn't be missing pictures due to this, it's only included elements that will be missing. This could mean something doesn't display properly or at all, but it's more likely that it won't have any visible impact.

Quote:

Would it be possible to add it? (Or otherwise an optional GUI button to toggle grab-scrolling, like Firefox's Grab'N'Drag add-on provides?)


That's one for the bugtracker.

Quote:

ALSO, is there possibility to add a menu option (or window gadget) to Iconise NetSurf? Such a feature would be quite handy.


It already has one, however due to reasons it is only available when running on the WB screen.

I never really understood the point of iconifying something which was running on its own screen anyway - it's not getting in the way.

Quote:

(I see there is an option for NetSurf to stay in memory when you quit it, but this seems a bit of a strange option - I'd rather have manual control (and a visible indication) of whether it's still running/loaded or not).


The visible indication is the AppDocky. I did notice this was broken last time I went to use it and crashes when it tries to open a window. I know why (it isn't re-opening the screen), but couldn't see any reason why it wouldn't be opening the screen at the time. I'll need to take another look at that. I might actually remove the option - as you say, it isn't terribly useful. But somebody might be using it (nobody has noticed it is crashing though), and it can be useful for testing as you can change the screenmode without having to save config and quit.

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Re: NetSurf issues & wishes
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@Chris

Hey Chris, just for fun i tried NetSurf 3.6 68k (WIP) under OS4 and with my surprise it started (and seems working) ... however i got a bad crash when i opened a secondarian tab ...

Not that it can be so usefull having something native, but it would be nice to be able to use also the 68k version under OS 4.1 FE

Here the crash:

--------------------------------------------
Crash log for task "NetSurf"
Generated by GrimReaper 53.19
Crash occured in module kernel at address 0x0185EDB0
Type of crash: DSI (Data Storage Interrupt) exception
Alert number: 0x80000003

Register dump:
GPR (General Purpose Registers):
0: 00012AA8 44C27064 25050750 5838CBA0 021CE680 5FFBC000 5838CBA0 5838CBE0
8: 438E46F4 00004AAA 00084ACE 00000002 FFFD09E6 44C27058 00000096 00000001
16: 00000000 5838CBA4 00000000 44C2705C 52057050 438E46F2 5838CBC0 00000008
24: 00000008 00000000 00000B38 80000007 5FFAC000 0000001C 02086C30 00000000


FPR (Floating Point Registers, NaN = Not a Number):
0: nan 1492 41 0
4: 0 16.8 16.8 0
8: 0 128 16.8 16.8
12: 1509 58 0 -5.05923e-321
16: 0 0 0 0
20: nan 4.5036e+15 0 -4.5036e+15
24: 0.54 0.54 1 0
28: 2 1.35808e-312 8.6917e-311 nan

FPSCR (Floating Point Status and Control Register): 0x82004000


SPRs (Special Purpose Registers):
Machine State (msr) : 0x0002F030
Condition (cr) : 0x41A55D80
Instruction Pointer (ip) : 0x0185EDB0
Xtended Exception (xer) : 0x018193D0
Count (ctr) : 0x41A560F8
Link (lr) : 0x0002000E
DSI Status (dsisr) : 0x468FC87C
Data Address (dar) : 0x41A560F8



680x0 emulated registers:
DATA: 461B52A0 0000001B 00000018 00000004 44C279F4 00000000 10000000 43D54E40
ADDR: 46108010 44C270F4 00000000 44C27120 44C27100 44C27160 56045588 44C27058
FPU0: 0 0 0 0
FPU4: 0 0 0 0



Symbol info:
Instruction pointer 0x0185EDB0 belongs to module "kernel" (HUNK/Kickstart)

Stack trace:
native kernel module kernel+0x0005edb0
native kernel module kernel+0x000545cc

68k Stack trace:
438e46f0 (68k IP) - "NetSurf" Hunk 0000 Offset 001076f0 (SegList: 10df7401)
43913d08 - "NetSurf" Hunk 0000 Offset 00136d08 (SegList: 10df7401)
43d54e40 - "NetSurf" Hunk 0000 Offset 00577e40 (SegList: 10df7401)
439131c4 - "NetSurf" Hunk 0000 Offset 001361c4 (SegList: 10df7401)
439030f8 - "NetSurf" Hunk 0000 Offset 001260f8 (SegList: 10df7401)
01bed3a8 - "Kickstart/petunia.library.kmod" Hunk 0000 Offset 00002388
01bed9e4 - "Kickstart/petunia.library.kmod" Hunk 0000 Offset 000029c4

68k disassembly:
438e46e8: 7400 moveq #0,d2
438e46ea: 2f0a move.l a2,-(sp)
438e46ec: 246f0008 movea.l 0x8(sp),a2
*438e46f0: 4aaa0096 tst.l 0x96(a2)
438e46f4: 6716 beq.b 0x438e470c

System information:

CPU
Model: AMCC PPC440EP V1.3
CPU speed: 799 MHz
FSB speed: 133 MHz
Extensions:

Machine
Machine name: Sam440EP
Memory: 1048576 KB
Extensions: bus.pci



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Re: NetSurf issues & wishes
Amigans Defender
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@samo79

Quote:
it would be nice to be able to use also the 68k version under OS 4.1 FE


Please do not do this. It won't work properly because the OS4 code paths don't exist in that executable. It only gets as far as it does because I made a special exception so I could test something.

There is no good reason to run the 68k executable under OS4.

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Re: NetSurf issues & wishes
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My wish is not for Netsurf itself but for the release archive. Datestamps should not be updated for old files or we cannot understand which files are really updated.

Thanks.

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Re: NetSurf issues & wishes
Amigans Defender
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From England
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@Elwood

I don't see that it matters, but I've added the flag to try and preserve timestamps. They could potentially get screwed up, as I don't know how Git handles them.

(and... it doesn't look like it has worked, not much I can do about that, the CI system must start afresh on every build and Git obviously doesn't set the timestamps according to last commit time)

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Re: NetSurf issues & wishes
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@Chris
Thanks for the (new tab) 'fix', which I shall try out soon.

Quote:

Quote:
ALSO, is there possibility to add a menu option (or window gadget) to Iconise NetSurf? Such a feature would be quite handy.

It already has one, however due to reasons it is only available when running on the WB screen.

I never really understood the point of iconifying something which was running on its own screen anyway - it's not getting in the way.

Well, it's not something I do *a lot* with Odyssey, but it's sometimes nice to leave it running, without an extra screen that I have to cycle through every time (e.g. if I'm coding, but don't immediately need pages NetSurf have open).

I've found the urge to iconify NetSurf more than Odyssey, because I have Odyssey set to re-open all the tabs I had open when I last closed it (an option whic NetSurf lacks).

Quote:
The visible indication is the AppDocky.

Ah, well that was the first thing I disabled when using NetSurf , since I don't have enough space on my Docky...

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Re: NetSurf issues & wishes
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@Elwood Quote:
My wish is not for Netsurf itself but for the release archive. Datestamps should not be updated for old files or we cannot understand which files are really updated.

For that kind of thing, I do a binary comparison of all files, using my BinDif program (which I include as a PortablE Shell example - you need to compile it yourself).


Edited by ChrisH on 2016/9/9 17:31:27
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Re: NetSurf issues & wishes
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None of the files in Resources should need to be fiddled with, and there are no shared libraries included, so I'm interested to know why it matters what has changed?

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Re: NetSurf issues & wishes
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@Chris Quote:
New blank tabs are always immediately switched to now too.

Thanks, this is a big usability improvement for me (although I was gradually getting used to working-around the issue).

Quote:
OK, the "bring screen to front" when a new tab has opened due to a re-launch, is done. It only occurs if the new tab is active. I'm wondering whether it's more appropriate to always make this tab active.

I didn't understand the point you were making here, but what I found was the it still does NOT bring NetSurf to the front in the following cases:

If NetSurf is running, but I forgot it was, and run it again. It creates a new tab, but does not bring NetSurf's screen to the front. I'm not sure whether or not creating a new tab is a good idea, but in either case I think it should still bring NetSurf's screen to the front.

I previously said:
Quote:
* "tab_new_session:1" does not bring the screen to the front, when the window is already open. This behaviour seems annoyingly inconsistent, since it does come to the front if NetSurf wasn't already running. I'm not sure whether the best solution is to (1) stop NetSurf bringing it's window/screen to the front when it is first created when opening a link (is that even possible... or desirable?), or (2) Simply always bring the window/screen to the front (when opening a link), despite "Open new tabs in background" (seems a bit strange & potentially unwanted).

FWIW, it's still the case that AppDir:NetSurf URL "http://my.url" creates a new tab without bringing the main screen to the front. (I did not yet test what happens if it is not running.) I don't know if you intended to change this behaviour or not, but thought I'd mention in anyway. As I said, I'm not sure what the 'right' solution is.

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Re: NetSurf issues & wishes
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@Chris

I think i wrote that feature request already on another thread, can't find it now

I'd like to have the bookmarks window incorporated into the main window...or at least sticky to the main window, so that when i move it it moves accordingly.
I also like to be able to decide on which side (left or right) the bookmark window sticks

And adding to that i'd like an option to open links in the same window that is already open and most of all open a new tab instead of a new window

i think you already said that you need to determine the window that is open to make that happen.

I'd say just take the main, the first window.

I'm one of that persons, that never have a second broswer window open, i work with tabs

Thanks a lot

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Re: NetSurf issues & wishes
Amigans Defender
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From England
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@ChrisH

Quote:
I didn't understand the point you were making here, but what I found was the it still does NOT bring NetSurf to the front in the following cases:

If NetSurf is running, but I forgot it was, and run it again. It creates a new tab, but does not bring NetSurf's screen to the front. I'm not sure whether or not creating a new tab is a good idea, but in either case I think it should still bring NetSurf's screen to the front.


And it does, but only if the newly-opened tab is active. ie. this will only work if tab_is_active (or whatever the option is) is on.

Otherwise you get an inactive tab opening, and the window coming to the front, which doesn't make sense.

Having thought more about this since then, I think the tab opened in that way should always be active (this is how Firefox works with external-clicked links). I need to do some tweaking to achieve that. (edit now done)


Edited by Chris on 2016/9/10 20:32:03
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Re: NetSurf issues & wishes
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@Chris Quote:
Having thought more about this since then, I think the tab opened in that way should always be active (this is how Firefox works with external-clicked links). I need to do some tweaking to achieve that. (edit now done)

While I still don't understand what "tab_is_active" means (I suppose it might be the logical inverse of "Open new tabs in background"??), I can confirm that NetSurf's screen now comes to the front in the following two cases:
* AppDir:NetSurf URL "http://my.url" (when it is already running).
* If NetSurf is running, but I forgot it was, and run it again.

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Re: NetSurf issues & wishes
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I previously said Quote:
* "tab_new_session:1" does not bring the screen to the front, when the window is already open. This behaviour seems annoyingly inconsistent, since it does come to the front if NetSurf wasn't already running. I'm not sure whether the best solution is to (1) stop NetSurf bringing it's window/screen to the front when it is first created when opening a link (is that even possible... or desirable?), or (2) Simply always bring the window/screen to the front (when opening a link), despite "Open new tabs in background" (seems a bit strange & potentially unwanted).

After more thought (and experiencing the updated NetSurf), I've come to the conclusion that it would be better if NetSurf NEVER came to the front (whether or not it was open before) if "Open new tabs in background" is ticked.

However, if that's not possible for some reason, then the current (consistent) behaviour is probably better the old (inconsistent) behaviour.

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