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Re: Initial port of new Paint app. NEW VERSION #3
Just popping in
Joined:
2008/8/21 23:02
Posts: 54
@kas1e

i have compiled it from the latest sourceforge source anyway. yes it builds so seems moreless all includes and libs are in place. the only aos4 define i see is the one that defines lpi_amiga, ive set it in devcpp preprocessor definitions, but i have an impression that it isnt taken into account anymore when a custom makefile is used. how do i define in makefile?
-DLPI_AMIGA as a compiler option? is that right?

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Re: Initial port of new Paint app. NEW VERSION #3
Supreme Council
Joined:
2006/11/19 18:16
From London, England
Posts: 1294
@wawa

This is drifting off-topic in this thread. Feel free to start a new topic if you wish to continue, but this thread is about LodePaint.

Thanks

Simon

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Re: Initial port of new Paint app. NEW VERSION #3
Quite a regular
Joined:
2008/10/14 18:36
From France
Posts: 647
@kas1e

thanks for this new version. tested on AOS4 and I could see the window jump when resizing the lodepaint window. No crash on exit, verry good...

Too bad that amiga SDL use 92% CPU for making nothing with lodepaint and just need 2% for making a line or change pixels on a picture.

I'm verry curious to know why SDL use too much CPU for nothing (application opened and thats all).

about lodepaint, 2 questions:

- What came the GUI, menus, requester ??? (from linux)

- How accessing a file in an other place than lodepaint ???
(the requester is strange, not found how accesing HD partitions).

bye.

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Re: Initial port of new Paint app. NEW VERSION #3
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Posts: 5542
@Mrodfr

Heavy CPU loading its just because lodepaint render yourself every frame (that not about SDL or OpenGL at all, its more about CPU raw power). For example 1.7ghz will be more than enough. LodePaint in terms of "engine" its just the same as any modern game, which rerender every frame and every seconds and alt. For example on my peg2 with 1ghz of cpu, when i resize window to 640x480, i have it working pretty fast (not checked CPU loading, will do it for interest later).

So, when application are opens, its not going to iddle state, its still rerender yourself every time. I ask main coder about making some kind of "check" on some kind of "if user do nothing, do not rerender", and if he will add that, then LodePaint will faster (but not when you will works with it, still redraw all the time will be).

Dunno from what come menus and gui, but for accessing to any file just type for example Work: and then use all those gadgets, or press drop down gadget and choice Progdir: and then move up. But better just write "work:". I will add a bit more "right" file open requester a bit later.

About resizing bug : its our SDL bug, and i already post here question about, and AfxGroup say that will fix it soon (i check sdl-page every few hours:) ).

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Re: Initial port of new Paint app. NEW VERSION #3
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2009/7/7 3:34
From Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2328
@kas1e

been playing with lodepaint for a good while last night and I must say it is quite a nice intuitive paint program ..no crashes at all and just need better overall speed for slower machines which hopefully will come in future updates

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Re: Initial port of new Paint app. NEW VERSION #3
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2007/10/25 9:21
From Gothenburg / Sweden
Posts: 1175
Anyone know if layers will be implemented in soon future ? Would be nice with more modern tool images. The ones now is... haha :)

Nice new icons/images.

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Re: Initial port of new Paint app. NEW VERSION #3
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From Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2328
Quote:

Kicko wrote:
... Would be nice with more modern tool images. The ones now is... haha :)
...


hey I like those old school icons

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Re: Initial port of new Paint app. NEW VERSION #3
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2007/9/11 11:31
From Russia
Posts: 5542
@Kicko
Yep, toolbar images are suck a bit for moment :) (as well as Font for menus). I think it will changed soon.

Related to Layers, that what is in Manual about:

Quote:

If layers are implemented (they are not yet) then they shouldn't cause confusing behaviour when you're not actually using them. That means:

* If you didn't make multiple layers, there won't appear multiple layers. Floating selections aren't layers, nor are geometric primitives or texts.
* Cropping and resizing should work on the entire image by default, independent of layers, unless a command to do it only on the current layer is specifically enabled.
* There should never be drawn something that looks like a selection rectangle around a layer or an image. A white/black dotted line is reserved only for selections to avoid confusion.

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Re: Initial port of new Paint app. NEW VERSION #3
Quite a regular
Joined:
2008/10/14 18:36
From France
Posts: 647
@kas1e

[quote]
kas1e wrote:
@Mrodfr

Heavy CPU loading its just because lodepaint render yourself every frame (that not about SDL or OpenGL at all, its more about CPU raw power). For example 1.7ghz will be more than enough. LodePaint in terms of "engine" its just the same as any modern game, which rerender every frame and every seconds and alt. For example on my peg2 with 1ghz of cpu, when i resize window to 640x480, i have it working pretty fast (not checked CPU loading, will do it for interest later).

So, when application are opens, its not going to iddle state, its still rerender yourself every time. I ask main coder about making some kind of "check" on some kind of "if user do nothing, do not rerender", and if he will add that, then LodePaint will faster (but not when you will works with it, still redraw all the time will be). /[quote]

Ok, not SDL or OPENGL, just only a matter of PCU power.

I don't know this kind of "other world" application allways render all and forever, even when doing nothing. A good method to sell computer, but I understand that on game (when all the screen move forever).

the basic thing is just render the picture window when drawing,.... but It's even not the case.

Hum, I like more a lot my amiga now

ask yannick to render just the window the pointer is positionned on, for gaining speed on small CPU power computer.... of course if possible on his platform.

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Re: Initial port of new Paint app. NEW VERSION #3
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@Mrodfr

Yannick is not coder of LodePaint, he just a one who port it to AROS (and from which i got that it can be ported to AOS4). And he of course have no problems with speed on AROS because of fast CPU. Coder of LodePAint are Lode Vandevenne.

That "rerendering all the time" its about of structure of programm itself. Its done (initially, and now) just like modern games done, because it's easy to code i think (all in all, he is author, and do what he want and how he want of course).

I will ask of course author about "more speedup please if possible" , and about "rerender only actual area over mouse pointer", but not want to annoy he very well at one push, just becaus he will tired and drop aos support. Small steps and such .. I already write he some "suggestions" on which he works rigth now, so, need some patience..

I checked right now lodepaint page, and he commit new changes in trunk, in which i found many parts which was rewriting with having in mind some MiniGL features about which i say to him .

So, just some patience, and i think it will be faster in future.

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Re: Initial port of new Paint app. NEW VERSION #3
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@ALL

New version on os4depot in upload query. Whats new:

-- fixed resizing bugs normally in our SDL (thanks to AfxGroup). No more jumping when resize, all works fine.

-- add code on checking for present/not present glcontext (that is related to our MiniGL, which do not check yorself when do glDeleteTexture on present context to avoid overhead). Because of it gLDeleteTexture no more crashes on exit (before was ugly hack to fix crash on exit, now its done in good way)

-- visual restructurisation of default look (new screenshot of rev_33 will be on os4depot when it will be grabbed from upload_query).

-- usual bug fixing and alt.

@328gts
Check that version, maybe now it will be fine with screensaver (maybe not:) ).

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Re: Initial port of new Paint app. NEW VERSION #3
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@all

New version on os4depot query.

New since last release:

--- New tool icons (now in modern way)
--- Made the tool icons smaller
--- Added Generate Gradient filter
--- Added shortcut for the pixel brush (i)
--- Made menus close more easily when clicking next to them

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Re: Initial port of new Paint app. NEW VERSION #3
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From Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2328
@kas1e

thanks again for the quick update just in time for the weekend

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Re: Initial port of new Paint app. NEW VERSION #3
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2006/12/2 3:55
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Posts: 3146
@kas1e

Latest release seems very nice altrough again a bit slow on Sam

Feature request: for the next release can you add an iconify gadget in GUI ? :

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Re: Initial port of new Paint app. NEW VERSION #5
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2008/10/14 18:36
From France
Posts: 647
@kas1e

thanks for this new version.

hope the author will made intelligent redraw for better speed.

the picture window, the color window, the toolbox, the tool settings and the menu only refreshed depending of the position of the mouse.

yes, allready discussed but verry important for us

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Re: Initial port of new Paint app. NEW VERSION #5
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@Samo
Yep, will add to "amiga specific todo list" :)

@Mrodfr
I talk about speed with author, and that what he answer to me:

Quote:

Speeding up the LodePaint GUI by only rerendering certain parts is very hard afaik. I've studies such options, but no, I don't think I can do anything like that now. Unlike a "normal" GUI, the GUI of LodePaint isn't event-based, but works like a computer game with a game-loop where everything is redrawn. Only drawing in areas where the mouse changed is hard because: other things than the mouse can also change the screen (e.g. an operation that finished after calculating a while, or a key press). Rerendering a part of a window with alpha translucency requires that what is behind it to be rerendered too. Some things might be animated.

There's no system at all built in the LodePaint GUI to detect when a redraw is needed and to only redraw windows for which it is needed, and it's hard to make.

The only thing there currently is, is a hidden "standby" system, where if you didn't move the mouse for 30 seconds or so, it redraws only 2 frames per second instead of the regular 40 or 60 FPS. This to save a lot of GPU processing power when the program isn't being used.

Also, if you draw on the painting's texture with the mouse with a brush, then only the affected part of the texture is uploaded to the video card again (and saved in undo), instead of the complete texture, otherwise drawing on it with a brush would go way too slow. So it's optimized where easily possible.


So, that mean, that for now, radical speed up will have no place (maybe later). Our hope its new MESA :)

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Re: Initial port of new Paint app. NEW VERSION #5
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2007/5/19 13:23
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Posts: 3553
@kas1e Quote:
works like a computer game with a game-loop where everything is redrawn

He's obviously never written an Amiga game, or in fact any game on any 8/16-bit system...

Quote:
There's no system at all built in the LodePaint GUI to detect when a redraw is needed and to only redraw windows for which it is needed, and it's hard to make.

I don't see why this is so hard (but I am not volunteering to do it either!), since IMHO this is "merely" an optimisation that you should expect to add at some point (whatever the program). But if it already works "fast enough" on monster PCs, then I guess there is no motivation to do it

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Re: Initial port of new Paint app. NEW VERSION #5
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2007/9/11 11:31
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Posts: 5542
@ChrisH

As he say:
Quote:

LodePaint works fast on a PC with 256MB RAM, Athlon XP 1700MHz and Geforce3 video card.


Dunno can we called tht config a monster.. But anyway, we all understand that is not "amiga specific" programm, and only can hope for some optimisation later. But as i point, also our realisation of MiniGL thorugh Warp3D slowing down it a lot. Anyway x1000 will more that enough imho (even with current version of minigl over warp3d, and alt).

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Re: Initial port of new Paint app. NEW VERSION #5
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@kas1e

Thanks

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Re: Initial port of new Paint app.
Just popping in
Joined:
2007/4/27 3:51
From NY, USA
Posts: 21
@kas1e

Quote:


This lodepaint program look like a linux program (menus and GUI colors) who run on the amiga but directly. How is it possible ???




Isn't that the idea of open source though? You build your own frontend, and use the programs data files, etc. to run the open source portion.

Same way we have Gish now, that cool tar ball game. It's open source, and you download the amiga frontend, and install their data files to play.

Getting to summer!

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