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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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@Daniel
Quote:

Currently I use this one:
TESmart HDMI KVM (8 port, 4k 60Hz support)


Looks good indeed! Find out they have 4 port variants the same up to 4k 60Hz, exactly what i need, and they even have audio port too, and also can be controlled from a key on, which is good.

This one : TESMart HDMI KVM 4 port

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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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@kas1e

This is the KVM i have

https://a.co/d/iTQd3gR

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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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@kas1e
your 4-port web link looks like it had displayports in the pictures, not hdmis

maybe these help with that one

https://a.co/d/5wcbxXK

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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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@blit
Quote:

This is the KVM i have

https://a.co/d/iTQd3gR


Wow, 16 ports, too much for me :) But yeah, just what Daniel show just more ports

Quote:

your 4-port web link looks like it had displayports in the pictures, not hdmis


At least in description it surely says HDMI and even named as "HDMI KVM Switch". In end of all i oder this one :

https://www.amazon.com/TESmart-Switche ... a-Computers/dp/B08124CPLM

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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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@kas1e

You can see how hit and miss KVMs can be from the responses. I've had an Aten that worked well for me, but Daniel's experience wasn't good. Sometimes it's because a KVM just doesn't like your particular mouse and/or keyboard. Daniel's current one looks pretty good.

If you do decide to use a UPS, here's what I look for when buying one:
- Power output big enough for max load
- True sine-wave output rather than square or "approximated;" it's better for your power supplies
- Has a boost and buck inverter, so it can do both over-voltage and under-voltage protection
- Line interactive or fully online UPS. Line interactive means it normally passes the AC through unless voltage correction or batteries are needed. The inverter is always connected so the switch-over is measured in milliseconds. Fully online runs the inverter 24/7
- Check how long the battery will last when the power fails when running one or two machines; I like to be able to keep working for a bit before having to shutdown

Hans


Edited by Hans on 2022/10/28 4:06:08
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - more of my work
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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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@kas1e

Please let us know how the KVM works for you.

I`m looking for one myself and the price is modest.
I want to get rid of the second keyboard/mouse combo on my desk too

People are dying.
Entire ecosystems are collapsing.
We are in the beginning of a mass extinction.
And all you can talk about is money and fairytales of eternal economic growth.
How dare you!
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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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@kas1e

I don't have experience with KVM switches, but I had many Amigas and other machines connected to single monitor, so I tested lots of HDMI switchers, that I still use to date, because for some reason my AmigaOne X1000 doesn't boot when it is connected to the Decklink framegrabber, but works okay when booted to the BenQ 4K display that I use. For the X1000 I use this bi-directional switch:

https://youtu.be/K1mcF7w9pqg

Which works both ways i.e you can use it for two machines to switch to single monitor between each other, or to use single machines and switch between two outputs - like in my case, I boot to the monitor and then switch to the framegrabber, after AmigaOS 4 is fully loaded. I also have a HDMI splitter, which shall take one HDMI signal and split it to two signals for two display, but it didn't work with the X1000. For more machines and camcorder switching I use 3 port and 5 port HDMI switchers, which allow me to select the input signal from 3 and 5 five different sources.

One major flaw of the current Amiga systems is the lack of sleep/hibernate function. If they had such power management features, the HDMI switchers automatically select the active source, so if I don't use some machine, I just put it to sleep (keeping all my current windows and programs open) and then just automatically get the signal from the next machine.

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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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@kas1e
Pegasos2 100% works witc just usb mouse and usb keyboard. I didnt have anything ps2 anymore and peg2 works just with usb devices. The key there is to have latest firmware and put keyboard on the first port. Same issue like on x1000, where you need to connect keyboard to first port

How can I identify first port? Is that at the upper between ps2 ports and ethernet port? Or it's at same place but at the bottom?

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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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@Flash
Quote:

How can I identify first port? Is that at the upper between ps2 ports and ethernet port? Or it's at same place but at the bottom?


I tested for now :

usb mouse in 1st port, usb keyboard in 2st port : works
usb mouse in 2st port, usb keyboard in 2st port : works too.

By first/second ports i mean those ones at back of the board (there just 2 of them at all). So as it works for me , but i remember for some other keyboard/mouse it were needs to swap each others, it can be difference in the usb devices too (i do have very cheap keyboard, but good fresh usb mouse).

In any way, if one way not works, then other one surely will. I just lucky to have it works now in both ports does not matter where connected.

But you also should have latest firmware on pegasos2 (or at least not very old one). For me is this (seeing from Serial):

Welcome to SmartFirmware(tm) for bplan Pegasos2 version 1.2 (20040810112413)
SmartFirmware(tmCopyright 1996-2001 by CodeGenInc.
All Rights Reserved.
Pegasos BIOS Extensions Copyright 2001-2004 by bplan GmbH.


I know that there were also firmware updates from 2005, but at least with this one i have usb mouse/keyboard works for sure.

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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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@All

Is there any "RS232" joiners as well ? I mean to connect from all 4 amigas serial-debug cable to single device, and this one then to my serial2usb cable ?

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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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Like others, my experience with KVM's has been spotty.

I use a manual, mechanical HDMI switch to go between my X1000 and whatever secondary computer is up at the moment.

Audio is something I spend a lot of time working on, so I need a little extra there.
I have an audio mixer with 8 stereo inputs. My X1000, the television (I'm in the living room), a Pi MP3 player running "Rune Audio", two pairs from a 4 channel USB sound sampler, another pair from a Yamaha Synthesizer, and a pair of open jacks for whatever else is happening at the moment.

The mixer is remotely controlled by MIDI, so it's easy to control from a GUI or scripts as desired. I recently added an IR input that controls JUST the television volume, and it's trained to the Roku remote control.

The mixer is now 14 years old, and still works great. I was thinking about making more of them, perhaps a bit smaller than the rack mounted one I have now. I just can't imagine working without the ability to hear all the devices that I need to.

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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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@Hans
While waiting my KVM to arrive, making a network for all 4 amigas so it will be independent network with own adresses.

That how it structured for now: In house come internet on their device, then from their device it come to my fisrt router who over lan-cable coming to the computer flat, and by wifi share internet to the 1st floor, and to the repitter of wifi singal on the second floor (so to have wify internet on 2st floor as well).

Now, this whole network inside of house usuall 192.168.1.X (one static ip for router, one static ip for lan from it, and one static ip for wifi repeater).

Then i add another router to this cable coming on second floor, so to connect to this one 4 amigas. There i made another network, this time is 192.168.0.x, so all amigas have 192.168.0.x addresses which use default gateway new router which see both networks.

Now i setup on one 192.168.0.x amiga machine a zitaftp, to which i want to access from 192.168.1.x network (so to use cross-compilers on "pc" network, to have access to "amiga" network).

So i made port forwaring on new router for zita, so 21 port is forwarded between 0.1 and 1.1 networks. This allow me to connect to zitaftp one, but still didn't give me ability to download/upload data. Then i read that zita use ports from 9000 till 9004 for trasnfer data and not just port 21, so i port-forward them all, and zita works.

But question is : should i port forward all 4 ports from 9000 till 9004, or it's enough to forward just one, or two ? I can of course test it myself, but will be intersting if you can explain how Zita works in terms of data transfering, etc.


Thanks!

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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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@kas1e

Years ago I tried two different KVM switches with my MicroA1 and a Windows PC.

The first KVM switch had PS/2 ports and worked very well with my MicroA1 and an old HP PC with PS/2 ports.

Later we purchased another PC with USB ports.

The second KVM switch had USB ports, but I had limited success using this KVM switch. Seemed to work fine if only one computer was powered on, but problems flipping back and forth between computers if both computers were powered on and active. It got worse when we replaced the keyboard with a Microsoft wireless keyboard.

Anyways, that was a long time ago, and hardware and software have probably improved since then.

Operating each computer with its own keyboard, mouse and monitor.

---
redfox


Edited by redfox on 2022/11/9 20:19:07
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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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@All
So i got this one:
https://www.amazon.com/TESmart-Switche ... a-Computers/dp/B08124CPLM

This KVM swith comes with all cables, and USB mouse/keyboard connection like this : you do have attach both usb mouse and usb keyboard to the KVM, but from KVM going only one usb, and you connect only one usb to the amigaos4's computers from KVM (whih mean less on 4 cables). I was in fear it will not works , as it usual for an old amigaos4 machines that those usb ports are sensetive, but in end of all seems all ok, with one exception: Pegasos2.

I.e. when i connect all 4 machines to KVM switch and start testing one by one, i found, that while on X5000, X1000 and Sam460 everything works as before : mean and boot logos, and firmwares screens, and boot menu, and os4 itself in 1920x1080 all ok, Pegasos2 is one wihch bring a little bit issues :

On pegasos2 i didn't have working keyboard on the boot, but it works when amigaos4 loads up. All i have on pegasos2 when power on, it's just words about "bplan" , then nothing changes visually (i can't see a boot menu of pegasos2, can't see amigaboot menu), but then, after some time amigaos4 logo appears on screen and os4 loads up with working keyboard and mouse.

The differences between all machines with pegasos2, is that i do have this kind of small adapter from VGA to HDMI:

https://www.amazon.com/Small-Adapter-F ... sr=1-54&ts_id=14570285011

Maybe this one somehow make an impact for KVM and it didn't show me anything after first "bplan" screen shows.. Dunno if those issues related at all..

Also usb-keyboard on pegasos2 works only when attached to the first usb port, maybe that somehow trick the KVM, but then, for X1000 you also should connect usb-keyboard to the first usb port, and still this works with this KVM, include boot menu , firmware and all that stuff.

So i still in progress to understand how it all will works, but so far all 4 amigas works, just peg2 bring a bit issue, but for everyday use it probable will not hurt in comprassion with attaching/deattaching usb keyboard, usb mouse and hdmi cable.

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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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@All
Did anyone else also mix audio outputs from different Amigas to single speakers? I don't need them to work simultaneously, but rather one at a time. But the cable I need is "4 output to 1 input," which is always connected to all machines and only one of which is powered on. And the cable is, of course, better to not lose volume or sound quality.

I also want to connect four serial ports to one input (which is my terminal), and while I know serial ports are designed to be "point-to-point" and only one per one is possible, I want to use them exactly that way, one at a time. The only difference is that four machines will always be wired together (though three will be powered off and only one will be on).

Did anyone make something of that sort?

What I fear about both audio and RS232 connecting together is that the electricity will go to the not-powered-on but still connected machines, which can be kind of bad anyway.

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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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@kas1e

wrt audio mixing...did you read @LyleHaze's post?

People are dying.
Entire ecosystems are collapsing.
We are in the beginning of a mass extinction.
And all you can talk about is money and fairytales of eternal economic growth.
How dare you!
– Greta Thunberg
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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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@kas1e

My experience audio mixing is limited to "left" and "right" audio.

During my days in the Canadian telecom industry, we used digital data combiner bridges made by many companies. Most were used for master/slave operations, where a "master" computer polled many remote "slave" devices. All the slave devices listened to the master and only replied when given permission.

Your application is the reverse. One terminal listening to four computers.

If you are only dealing with data in one direction, a simple TTL or CMOS 4-port OR-gate should work as the combiner. But you would need to translate RS-232 voltages down to the TTL/CMOS logic voltage levels used by the OR-gate. This circuit becomes more complicated if you need to pass RS-232 control signals as well as data. In theory you don't need to pass data back from your terminal to the active computer.

Another device I saw years ago was a standalone device with five serial ports. This device contained a Z80 CPU, ROM, RAM and serial ports. It could be used in the master/slave polling environment (master computer polling four slave devices), or four computers sharing a serial printer.

I don't know of any companies that sell these devices.

---
redfox

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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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@Raziel
Yeah, i read Lyle's post : but he use special hardware audio mixers, which do have module amplifier, additional power and all that stuff. In my case, all i need, is something simple, passive (so without module amplifier), without additional power, like "4 in 1" cable, just with only one difference : on each of them probably need to soldering resitor so the output signals from one machine, will not go onto other, powered off, machines. Something like this probably:

Resized Image


Just to have something of that sort in end , just with 4 inputs:

Resized Image


@Redfox
Quote:

Another device I saw years ago was a standalone device with five serial ports. This device contained a Z80 CPU, ROM, RAM and serial ports.


Imho that too much : those devices mean to handle many active computers at the same time, what i need just same cable combined, just to avoid electricity coming back on the "powered off" machines. Probabaly simple resistors would help there


Edited by kas1e on 2022/11/22 4:54:25
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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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@kas1e

I use a simple passive 4-channel stereo mixer. I haven't opened it up, but is should be a bunch of connectors, resistors and potentiometers. No power supply needed.

I haven't looked for an rs-232 switch, so can't give any advice for that. I'll probably buy a second rs-232 to USB at some point, because I don't like swapping the cables over repeatedly.

Hans

http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - more of my work
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Re: Switch between many amigaos4 machines
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@Hans
Thanks , audio mixer looks good. Will go that one then.

Still checking that KVM swith i got, and while in the os4 itself all 4 machines works all the time and all fine, still, in the firmwares for pegasos2 and sam460 keyboard didn't work.

I do have very cheap "Logitech K120 keyboard", maybe worth trying to replace on something else with better "buffering" or whatever better can be in today's usb keyboards ?

I mean, did it make any difference what keyboard i attach ? Or it's all mostly about computers itself ? (through, when connect directly, everything works of course, in both sam460 and peg2 it works ok when go not through kvm).


this KVM also have some "sensetive modes", need to figure out what they out, but so far trying all of them, and this make no difference to make keyboard works in firmwares of sam460 and pegasos2. Only x1000 and x5000 have no issues at all :)

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