I'm assuming that OS3 updates was the main point of contention, but it would have been nice to hear a positive statement about OS4.

@LiveForIt

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Of course. Just musing over "how we got here".

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Thanks for the primer. I'm glad to hear that you're guessing, as hopefully the kernel developers came up with something much more "drop-in". It apparently largely works, too. When the technical writeup finally appears (wiki.amigaos.net ?) I'll be curious to see which solution they chose.

The definition of "68K support" has meandered over the course of this thread, but it appears to come down to Exec's current design holding back SMP and introducing security and stability issues. I'm not currently much of an Amiga developer, so can't get much more technical than that. From what I recall of the Hyperion "legal papers" posted to another site, their mandate was originally a quick and dirty port to PowerPC. I think the original idea was that OS5 would be along shortly (within a decade?) and this would be good enough. But there was no SMP when all this was being worked out, and here we are 20 years later.

I don't know where @LiveForIt gets his information, but if this is the current state of Amiga SMP

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then yes, something has to change. Apparently the Extended Memory API for virtual memory is quite straightforward, but even that doesn't get used. Part of me wishes this could be put off until we've done everything once -- hello new sound API, new printer API, Unicode, NGFS for everyone, etc.! But again, here we are.

I'd love a fancy system using a real hypervisor (would like to try Linux NixOS sometime), but the quick and dirty solution this time does appear to be further integrating EUAE. I wonder if the interest in this thread mirrors A-EON's and Hyperion's priorities? OS 4.2 without real SMP would be a great disappointment.

@Hans stated not too long ago that DisplayPort is non-functional:

https://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/ ... id=139316#forumpost139316

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+1. I hadn't realized there was still a need for Sashimi (or even an OS4 port) in the era of Grim Reapers and serial output.

@joerg

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But OS4 itself also uses FreeType. At least there's an Amiga makefile included in every source archive. Where does this speed increase originate? Assuming OS4's font engine hasn't simply been highly fine-tuned.

Sorry, this is getting OT, but I am genuinely curious.

But OS4 doesn't currently do animated pointers, correct? If the pointer is generated from a .info file, then maybe the solution is to extend the .info format to include more than two images?

(Person with no OS4 Amiga speculating...)

@TheMagicSN

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Correct, you didn't. But Mac sales was the only other source of income I ever saw attributed to Hyperion, and having read/skimmed the various Amiga, Inc. "lawsuit" documents on another site and the debts cited, it was a logical conclusion. (Not to mention that more than one former developer has stated publicly or privately about getting stiffed.) It was still eye-opening.

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As was this.

@walkero

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Thanks. I had a look at stopforumspam's lists, but as I hadn't recorded my IP's, wasn't going to find an exact match for my IP's today. There are other IP's present from those blocks, though. I see the lists are updated hourly, which explains why the problem disappeared relatively quickly. The "2038" message is apparently you or one of the other admins being playful? Protector's features seem to be mostly anti-hacking features for XOOPS itself. I didn't see anything about loading block lists.


@DigitalDesigns

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It happens to me (exclusively?) on mobile, too, and is IP based, so acquiring a different address should solve the problem. Or maybe wait up to an hour? I'll post again when I find a smoking gun, and then maybe we can see what's happening for you.


@pjs

Well, one upside to being banned for 12 years is that by then we'll have OS 4.2. Maybe.

Obviously a hollow threat, but I've been getting blocked on Amigans irregularly over maybe the past six months. It happened again tonight and I finally decided to ask. Tonight's message was



I would imagine it's also logged somewhere server side. Would one of the admins please explain what's going on, and which blocklist(s) "Protector" uses? If you can't tweak anything here, I'll talk to them.

Cloudflare and their kind has made me rather sensitive to false positives.

@Tuvok

Nice list! And nothing too complicated. I'm thinking that a couple of your items might be accomplished with ARexx like "move selected files and drawers to a new drawer" (did I get that right?), if maybe a bit less elegantly.


@all

I've thought about the funding problem too, and don't know the answer. I gave @TheMagicSN a good laugh once when I stated that Hyperion managed OS4 development through the sale of Mac game ports. No, Hyperion managed development by cheating developers and running up huge debts.

For any film buffs, I'm reminded of the scene in Citizen Kane where a young Kane is confronted by his accountant that the newspaper lost a million dollars last year. Paraphrasing, Kane agrees and says they'll probably lose a million this year and the next year, too, and at that rate they'll be out of business in 60 years, but it will have been a good run. We need a few more Trevors.

If I came into a large sum of money, making amends with the various OS4 developers and "getting the old team back together" would be at the top of my list, as there aren't that many skilled Amiga developers to begin with, and we shouldn't be wasting time by reinventing technologies that work, like Joerg's CDFileSystem. I keep hoping there's a method to the madness...

@Elwood started a thread like this a few weeks ago, but concerning major features. For a bit of fun, I thought I'd start a discussion for minor features, maybe something you expected in a 4.1FE, a missing bugfix, a sought-after tweak, etc. Off the list should be the big stuff: SMP, NGFS for everybody, 64 bit support, a proper sound API, full Unicode support, a multimedia subsystem, new GUI, new Workbench, IP6, a new printer/scanner subsystem, etc. Whew.

I've been reading Amigans for a couple years now, so hopefully this isn't a duplicate of something recent.

There are a few core OS4 developers and beta testers here, and if any comments are surprising, perhaps you'd add them as feature requests to the official bugtrack?

My own suggestion: I am surprised there was never a UDF (Universal Disk Format) handler for Blu-Ray disks.

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Is that official? It's news to me.

Per this thread, I'm sorry but think many have unrealistic expectations. It's a huge codebase to tame, AFXGroup's work is totally volunteer, and it's the Christmas season. And Odyssey is unlikely to progress much beyond the underlying WebKit/Wayfarer code it's based on.

I think they can finish the port, but big (volunteer) projects take time.

I would guess because it's an alpha and the important bugs are obvious. When it gets to a beta stage, then reporting more nuanced problems would fall on the community.

@smf

How did I forget Linux?? So weird that it's apparently just that card...currently the only PCIe storage card usable on Amiga!

Good to know, thanks. Yes, it makes sense that they won't get excited over one old, obscure card, but if this problem plagues one card, it probably plagues other, too. Somewhere.

Getting OT, but I wonder how many Amiga users have access to a wide range of PCI/PCie cards (maybe a friend owns a computer repair shop?) and checked them for recognition in UBoot/CFE? When you know there are drivers for only cards X, Y, and Z, I think the natural tendency is to steer away from anything else. Maybe some of the X5000 beta testers had a go?

@Skateman

Since you chimed-in, I'll ask this: if Sil3132 problems do carry over to the Mirari, as NXP developers, are you entitled to their tech support? Do you have the ability to open tickets, or is that a different support tier?

@AlfredOne

Thank you. Two very lengthy discussions. Is it the chip, the motherboard design, UBoot, or some combination....?

This is the sort of issue I hope we can avoid with the Mirari boards. And if it ends up being a design issue with NXP chips, I at least expect Harald and Dave to be honest with us.

@hotrod

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I think the short answer is that Odyssey 3 is very much an alpha. It's not even stable yet, and everything is statically compiled.
Whereas Wayfarer is (I expect) a more mature and occasionally updated product, and having made it stable, the developers were then able to move to the next level and make it elegant. Even at "elegant", both are probably still much fatter than a native solution like IBrowse, even if IBrowse were expanded with the very same modern features. Given enough development time, I expect Odyssey will take on a similar footprint as Wayfarer.

This problem fascinates me, but unfortunately I can't give you any concrete answers, just a few thoughts:

Did you ever connect any of these to a PC to make sure they actually work? I recall getting a brand new video card once that was DOA.

IMHO it was bold to apply power to that one card with the ROM unsocketed. I would have been concerned about frying something...unless the jumper does nothing more than literally remove it electrically.

For the cards with non-removable ROM's, maybe the PC will provide a UI where you can make changes? And from what I understand, the ROM is likely flashable with Silicon Image firmware. Maybe a newer version (or an older version) could help?

And counterfeit chips are a real thing. This crossed my path a few years ago with PL2303 chips when I bought a USB to serial adapter. I couldn't find anything about counterfeit Sil3132 chips, but I guess anything's possible. Find some PL2303 horror stories and maybe they'll relate?