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Re: AmigaOS 4 Monthly Roundup - May 2023
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@AmigaOldskooler

Thanks for the great summary. And of course to all involved.

SDL 2.26.5-RC2 has improved a lot of things, I'm glad I can use things like MilckyTracker, ScummVM, LiteXL under AmigaOs4.1.

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@derfs
@white

Thanks for the comparison test, since I was also unsure, I also compared CPU g3 and g4 7457 and my results show that sometimes the G3 cpu is faster, sometimes the 4G CPU 7457.

RageMem:

Resized Image

SortBench:

Resized Image

QuickSort:

Resized Image

Whetstone:

Resized Image

I have both CPU results packed side by side, left side CPU G3, right side CPU G4 7457.

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
Quite a regular
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@white

Quote from BALATON Zoltan:

Quote:
I've read your conversation on amigans.net forum so I answer a few
questions:

> Maijestro:
> @white
?
> Quote:
>
> white wrote:@Maijestro
>
> I'd like to know because otherwise I have to recompile the FPU
> support from scratch.
> Not so much for its compilation because it takes 10 seconds.
>
> But it takes at least an hour to replace the files
>
> Ask BALATON Zoltan

Indeed, it's best to ask me if you have some question because writing it
to random forums is not the best way to get an answer. I may read some
forum threads and answer if I happen to know your email address but may
not find all questions that way. If you prefer a forum there's also one at
https://osdn.net/projects/qmiga/forums/ but it's not yet used.

> Otherwise I have no information about it, as I said there were only minor
> changes. Some patches were questioned. All changes will probably take
> place in Qemu 8.1.

QEMU 8.0.x are stable releases and only contain back ported bug fixes that
may be important for those running a stable version but no new features.
So pegasos2 related changes are usually not included in stable versions
only in next version with new features which will be 8.1 in August (see:
https://wiki.qemu.org/Planning/8.1 ) and only when they are merged until
July 11th. Anything missing that deadline will be in 8.2 due in Decembet.

> - shutdown via shutdown Linux/AmigaOs4.1

This is not merged yet but maybe still can be in next release

> - CPU 7457 as default setting

This will be there as it's merged already

> - code cleanup, speed improvement

There are some pending patches for this but don't expect very big speed
improvement, maybe a few percents are realistically possible.

> White:
? For example, for a long time it was believed that with WinUAE selecting
> in Z3 RAM "automemory"
>
> Was the best choice for 4.1 while actually if you select "Real Memory"
>
> Emulation speed doubles which I always selected. In the end even "Toni"
> understood that with 4.1 it is better to choose "Real Memory" in Z3 RAM.
>
> Now I don't know how ram is managed in "qemu Pegasos2"
> but i think i have the same problem.

What makes you think we have the same problem?

> I think ZBalaton should investigate this.
> And figure out if there's a correlation to that in memory management.

I can only investigate what I know about and what I also understand.

> Although always available ZBalaton sometimes does not understand in good
> faith I mean. And he is a really helpful person, mine is not a criticism
> of him.

Yes I can't fix problems I don't understand so then I need more info on
those to help me understand it. Telling me that some setting works in UAE
or VMWare are not too helpful as I don't know or use UAE or VMWare so I
dan't help with those and also don't know what would that mean for QEMU so
I can only guess which is usually not enough to undrstand the problem.

> But I've been emulating 4.1 for many years
> The suggestions I try to give him sometimes fall on deaf ears.
>
> For example, the problem of the SFS filesystem was from the 3.0 version
> of qemu that I had reported the problem.

This was also a problem which wasn't understood but it was also not
possible to fix, SFS still does not work on sam460ex where you've reported
it and the reason is not a problem in QEMU but in the SFS driver included
in AmigaOS 4.1 which only supports specific processors as was now found
and confirmed. I could not figure this out from your report telling me
that it does not work, it needed more information and experimenting that
was only done by some people now that we had pegasos2 that could use
different CPUs. If this theory is true then SFS also does not work on a
real sam460ex so I wonder if that's really the case but it would need
somebody with a real hardware to confirm that.

> Now I'm talking about the memory to be selected in "Real" mode
> I have no idea how it is handled by qemu but this needs to be fixed in
> the code of "qemu Pegasos2"

And I have no idea what's Real mode in WinUAE and not sure it can be fixed
in QEMU the same way.

> So you should see what part of WinUAE code manages this option and
> import it into qemu Pegasos2. Because it's essential.
>
> This would double the emulation speed.

This may not work like that because UAE emulates a classic Amiga and QEMU
emulates a pegasos2. The pegasos2 does not have Z3 RAM as it also does not
have Zorro bus. The RAM in pegasos2 is just mapped from address 0 and can
go up to 2GB but the firmware can only detect 1GB SIMMs and QEMU only
emulates one SIMM. You can tell it to emulate a 2GB SIMM but the firmware
then does not detect it so we'd either need to split it into two SIMMs or
do something with the firmware to make it work with 2GB SIMMs. (Newer
firmware versions also seem to have this problem maybe because 2GB SIMMs
were not common back when pegasosII was a supported machine).

But back to the Real mode issue. First of all what is that? Does that mean
disabling usage of MMU and just map RAM one to one? I'm not sure
AmigaOS4.1 can do that on pegasos2 but if you can somehow disable use of
virtual memory or MMU that may improve speed a bit but probably less than
two times. I'd still need more info on what you mean to understand the
problem better, without that I can't do much about it.

Regards,
BALATON Zoltan


BALATON Zoltan is very open minded and if you have any questions please contact him directly.

If it's not too much to ask maybe we could create a new category for the forum on Amigans.net for the Qemu Peg2 AmigaOs4.1 stuff?

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


@whiteQuote:
white wrote:@joerg
thanks for the explanation,

@Maijestro

I was looking now in the repositories
https://gitlab.com/qemu-project/qemu/-/tree/master/hw/ppc

version 8.0.2 should be updated with cpu changes 7457 is 6 days ago

have you tried it?


I have now tested Qemu 8.0.2, as I had already suspected relevant changes that mainly affect Qemu Peg2 have not yet been merged. Will probably only changed with Qemu 8.1.

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


@joergQuote:
joerg wrote:@white
The problem with SFS (only the versions illegally sold by Hyperion as part of AmigaOS 4.1 FE and beyond) in qemu were simply that qemu emulated complete nonsense, for example a 600 MHz 7400 CPU with 0 bytes L2 cache, which neither exists nor was anything even close to any of the CPUs supported by AmigaOS 4.x (in case of the G4 CPUs only V'ger and Apollo versions are supported) and therefore failed the copy protection tests in illegal SFS distributions.


It was luck that AmigaOs4.1 could handle this G4 CPU 7400 at all, leading of course to a very unstable and incompatible system.

The funny thing is that @smarkusg found out because they first started to work intensively with the Pegasos2 AmigaOs4.1 emulation.

As I also tested the sm501 part, which then added sound and network support. About 1 year ago this emulation was totally unusable.

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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Quite a regular


@white

Have you ever asked BALATON Zoltan and explained it to him ?

The problem with Qemu used to be that not many people used it with AmigaOs 4.1 and reported bugs, so it remained a poor emulation until Qemu 7.2, when like you I could reproduce most of the problems with Qemu 3.

Many things have been improved since then, SFS, network, sound, CPU/FPU the main problem unfortunately remains and that is the sm501 with its low resolutions and 16 bit output.

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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Re: QEMU Emulation vs Hardware CPU Benchmarks
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Quite a regular


@flash

Thanks for the benchmark on a real Pegasos 2 hardware. The Quicksort Bench could have been shortened a bit, the many numbers are not necessary only "Total time taken by CPU" is decisive.

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


@whiteQuote:
white wrote:@Maijestro

I removed the background
As soon as I have time I remove other superfluous things.


It was related to the background image of AmigaOs4.1 not under CoffinOs.

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


@white

Quote:
white wrote:@Maijestro

I'd like to know because otherwise I have to recompile the FPU support from scratch.
Not so much for its compilation because it takes 10 seconds.

But it takes at least an hour to replace the files


Ask BALATON Zoltan

Otherwise I have no information about it, as I said there were only minor changes. Some patches were questioned. All changes will probably take place in Qemu 8.1.

- shutdown via shutdown Linux/AmigaOs4.1

- CPU 7457 as default setting

- ac97 improvements

- code cleanup, speed improvement

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@whiteQuote:
white wrote:Ok, now E-Uae works with CoffinOS R62
in SDL version with g3 cpu.
I did some changes in the startup-sequence it all switched to sfs/02 on hard disk.
As soon as I have time I will improve it for my needs by removing some superfluous things.

I find E-UAE an important program to use with 4.1.
The resolution is 800x600x16bit uaegfx.


Great configuration you have there, it seems to run very smoothly. What I noticed is that your background image does not support your resolution, you could change it in System/Prefs/WbPattern and then change the settings to Centered....then your background image will be adjusted by Workbench to your resolution.

Quote:
I've been a bit lazy lately in making videos

I saw that qemu version 8.0.2 is out
I was wondering if it contains the new patches posted by ZBalaton?


Since the version jump was not very large, I think it was only improved minor things.

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


@joergQuote:
joerg wrote:@Maijestro
Quote:
I haven't quite figured that out yet, but these are the two lines I use for my 2 virtual disks.So should I use ide.1 first for AmigaOs4.1 boot HD and use ide.0 for an additional HD?
Each PATA bus supports 2 drives, master and slave.
On real hardware it would boot several seconds faster if you use ide.0 for both HDs, bus 0 master and bus 0 slave, instead of bus 0 master and bus 1 slave like now (no ATA command timeout when searching for a drive on the unused bus 0 slave, and no check if the bus 1 master CD/DVD drive is a HD), but on emulation there may be no difference.


Ok now I understand it under real hardware the hard disks should be on ide.0 Bus0 as master and slave.

A configuration of ide.0 Bus0 harddisk 1 and ide.1 Bus1 harddisk 2 would slow down the booting because the ports on which the harddisks are connected have to be searched first.

Under Qemu or in the emulation this will probably not play a role. Thanks for the explanation anyway.

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@smarkusgQuote:
smarkusg wrote:@Maijestro
>The StartScript already works very well, but how did you include the boot command "boot hd:0 amigaboot.of", I can't get everything to start automatically.

You must spawn the script you created in expect. This means that you must first call up expect and in it your script, which will "talk" to it.
Here is an example:

----
#!/opt/homebrew/bin/expect -f

cd /Users/marekus/Documents/Qamiga
set timeout -1
set qemu_cmd "boot hd:0 amigaboot.of"

spawn ./qemu_run

expect -exact "entering main read/eval loop"
send -- "$qemu_cmd\r"
expect -exact "Please choose a configuration"
send -- "1\r"
expect eof
---

To put this in Automator on macos
"qemu_run" is your Qemu run script.


Could you send me the script, I don't understand it.?

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
Quite a regular
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@joergQuote:
joerg wrote:@Maijestro
Quote:
I was able to add a second HD without problems, set it up with MediaToolBox under AmigaOs4.1 also without problems...FileSystem SFS and then format. I am not sure if you can help but the additional HD is not automatically registered under AmigaOs4.1 although I did that in MediaToolBox. I can only use this HD with System/Mounter by registering it.
Check your first drive in MediaToolBox, it should have some "modified" marker and needs to be updated.
To speed up booting/mounting partitions by not searching for hds/partitions on empty ports/units, which can take a lot of time especially with SCSI, the RDB (AmigaOS partition table standard) includes a "last unit" flag. When you set up the first HD with MediaToolBox it was the only, and therefore last, HD drive on the emulated PATA controller and this flag should have been set, but now with the 2nd HD installed it has to be cleared.


Thank you very much for the explanation, it works perfectly and the 2nd HD is automatically registered under AmigaOs4.1 after removing "last unit" in the MediaToolBox. Again one more problem solved, I am impressed, they are good

Quote:
"bus=ide.0" (currently unused primary slave) instead of "bus=ide.1" (secondary slave with the ATAPI cd/dvd as secondary master) should be a little bit faster as well, since only the 2 HD drives have to be checked for mounting partitions, instead of the currently 4 drives (primary master HD, primary slave unused, secondary master CD/DVD, secondary slave HD).


I haven't quite figured that out yet, but these are the two lines I use for my 2 virtual disks.So should I use ide.1 first for AmigaOs4.1 boot HD and use ide.0 for an additional HD?

-drive if=none,id=hd,file=/Users/reneengel/AmigaOs4.1hd1SFS.img,format=raw -device ide-hd,drive=hd,bus=ide.0
-drive if=none,id=hd1,file=/Volumes/EXTREME\ SSD/hd2.img,format=raw -device ide-hd,drive=hd1,bus=ide.1

That should be ok or not?

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


@joerg

With the line:

-drive if=none,id=hd1,file=/Volumes/EXTREME\ SSD/hd2.img,format=raw -device ide-hd,drive=hd1,bus=ide.1

I was able to add a second HD without problems, set it up with MediaToolBox under AmigaOs4.1 also without problems...FileSystem SFS and then format. I am not sure if you can help but the additional HD is not automatically registered under AmigaOs4.1 although I did that in MediaToolBox. I can only use this HD with System/Mounter by registering it.

Is there another solution for automatic logon under AmigaOs4.1

I made a short video so you can understand it better.




MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@derfsQuote:
derfs wrote:@MaijestroQuote:
From a NVMe harddisk AmigaOs4.1 can be booted normally under real hardware ?



No, as it requires an updated firmware to boot from NVMe. It can be used as an extra storage device.


Ok thank you for the information

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@whiteQuote:
white wrote:@Maijestro

how do i download patches ?
does it ask me for access ?

Thank you


To test patches I recommend to use the Qemu git master source. Here you can find an overview of the submitted patches.

https://patchwork.kernel.org/project/qemu-devel/list/

If you want to try a patch, just click on the patch itself and download the mbox (top right) file with save as.

with "git am /path/to/mbox" you add the patch, after applying patches you have to recompile for the changes to take effect.

Example:

cd QemuGITMaster
QemuGITMaster git am /path/to/mbox

BALATON Zoltan has also submitted some patches today. You can see this by clicking on the link above. Behind each patch is also the submitter.


Edited by Maijestro on 2023/5/30 17:54:08
Edited by Maijestro on 2023/5/30 17:54:36
Edited by Maijestro on 2023/5/30 18:06:28
MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@joergQuote:
joerg wrote:@Maijestro
Quote:
@joergQuote:
UW-SCSI on real hardware is faster than PATA, but slower than SATA. On emulation there is probably no difference between the 3.

Qemu is oriented as close as possible to real hardware, it could well bring some speed, since it is untested remains only a guess.
Since the SCSI protocol is much more complex than the ATA one it should be slower in emulation. Not sure, but emulated NVMe might be faster than emulated SATA.
In any case the speed of emulated drives doesn't only depend on the hardware emulation in QEmu, but on the AmigaOS 4.x driver implementation as well, for example peg2ide.device for PATA, lsi53c8xx.device for SCSI, sii3114ide.device for SATA, nvme.device for NVMe



Qemu supports NVMe I could do a par tests, as I have seen there is also a driver on Os4depot for AmigaOs4.1. From a NVMe harddisk AmigaOs4.1 can be booted normally under real hardware ?

Thanks for the explanation

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
Quite a regular
Quite a regular


@white
Quote:
white wrote:@joerg

Thanks, I thought about it a bit
This works adds a second separate virtual hard drive:

obviously it must be initialized with HDToolBox


qemu-system-ppc -cpu apollo7 -M pegasos2 -bios /home/white/Scaricati/pegasos2.rom -m 1024 -serial stdio -device sm501 -drive if=none,id=hd,file=/home/white/Scaricati/32gb.raw,format=raw -device ide-hd,drive=hd,bus=ide.0 -device rtl8139,netdev=vlan0 -netdev user,id=vlan0 -vga none -drive if=none,id=hd1,file=/home/white/Scaricati/Pegasos2.qcow2,format=raw -device ide-hd,drive=hd1,bus=ide.1



he he very good, I can use something like that well, thanks that you have found out I will test it right away. Now I can create a bigger HD and import my backups

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@joergQuote:
joerg wrote:@white

@Maijestro
Quote:
I'm not sure but scsi should be a lot faster than ide or?
UW-SCSI on real hardware is faster than PATA, but slower than SATA. On emulation there is probably no difference between the 3.


Qemu is oriented as close as possible to real hardware, it could well bring some speed, since it is untested remains only a guess.

It's like with the standard G4 CPU 7400 which was set by Qemu for the Pegasos 2 emulation, because of this some things were not recognized under AmigaOs4.1 (Altivec/SFS) and the system was in some areas very slow and incompatible e.g. Enhancer Software 2.2.

BALATON Zoltan has released some patches with others just waiting to be merged into Qemu. Among others the shutdown directly under AmigaOs4.1 was solved and an alternative patch for it was written, the default CPU was changed to cpu 7457 as it currently works well with AmigaOs4.1. And some other things...

The merging of the patches can be taken from here :

https://patchwork.kernel.org/project/q ... -1-danielhb413@gmail.com/

It's not big things, but it will improve the emulation further. What I wish for the future is to be able to use at least 32 bit resolutions and maybe 2d accelerated.

Also the purchase of a real Amiga would be an option for me if it is not bigger than my Mac Studio.

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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Re: What the fastest possible x64 emulation way of OS4 today ?
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@whiteQuote:
white wrote:I'd like to add a second virtual hd

this is the command line i use -cpu apollo7 corresponds to -cpu 7457:

qemu-system-ppc -cpu apollo7 -M pegasos2 -bios /home/white/Scaricati/pegasos2.rom -m 1024 -serial stdio -device sm501 -drive if=none,id=hd,file=/home/white/Scaricati /32gb.raw,format=raw -device ide-hd,drive=hd,bus=ide.0 -device rtl8139,netdev=vlan0 -netdev user,id=vlan0 -vga none -drive if=none,id=hd, file=/home/white/Downloads/Pegasos2.qcow2,format=raw -device ide-hd,drive=hd,bus=ide.1

this is what qemu replies to me:

qemu-system-ppc: -drive if=none,id=hd,file=/home/white/Downloads/Pegasos2.qcow2,format=raw: Duplicate ID 'hd' for drive

i'm doing something wrong from what i understand just add =ide1 in place of =ide0



I have also dealt with it and until today not managed to mount a 2 HD, even the attempt via "virtio scsi" I did not succeed.

I'm not sure but scsi should be a lot faster than ide or?

This tutorial I found and tried:

https://wiki.netbsd.org/tutorials/how_ ... up_virtio_scsi_with_qemu/

Also the complete mounting of an external hard disk did not work yet. For help you might have to look in the direct Qemu forum.

MacStudio ARM M1 Max Qemu/AmigaOs4.1FE/Pegasos2
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