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Re: Ps3 experience
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Keep an eye out for:

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Re: Ps3 experience
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@ChrisH

The Cell isn't really that hard to develop for, but it takes some time and effort to break up legacy game engines into smaller parts to run on the SPEs seperately, some 360 ported games don't use them at all, but they are becoming rare. Genji 2, a great looking and solid running (albeit average game overall) early PS3 exclusive didn't use them neither according to the devs.

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Re: Ps3 experience
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@Antique

Quote:
ave only tested motorstorm,very cool game,gets a big - cos singleplayer only.


Motorstorm supports 12 player online multiplay (15 cars max), great fun, when you connect online the game will be updated to version 3.1 and some good additional content is available on the PSN store.

I've got (My top 10 thus far):

1) Uncharted: Drake's Fortune
2) Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction
3) Motorstorm
4) Resistance: Fall of Man
5) Super Stardust HD (PSN)

The above are IMO must own!

6) Warhawk (online required)
7) The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
8) Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection (PSN)
9) Snakeball (PSN)
10) Calling all Cars (PSN)

All these are amazing to pretty good games and perform solidly apart from Oblivion, which still looks and runs much better than the highly praised 360 version (720p resolution instead of 600p, longer draw distances, more content, less frequent framerate / loading slowdowns)

Oblivion isn't rock solid, but according to Berthesda: "Fallout 3?s Executive Producer Todd Howard - from Oblivion developer Bethesda - understands that PS3 ?has more than enough power. No single game is using it all yet - not even close?."
link

PS2 games I bought so far for my PS3:

1) God of War 2
2) God of War

IMO both God of War games are must own!

3) Jak 3
4) Ape Escape 2
5) Ape Escape 3


Edited by MikeB on 2008/1/6 21:57:33
Edited by MikeB on 2008/1/6 21:58:28
Edited by MikeB on 2008/1/11 22:48:31
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Re: How interested in the PS3 for OS4 are you?
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@corto

Quote:
This article was published in January, before people know troubles between AInc and Hyperion. Of course PS3 could run OS4 or MorphOS ... this does not means it can happen with the current situation.


Actually I already commented on the disagreements between Amiga Inc and Hyperion here at Amigans.net and on AmigaWorld.net. So maybe this shouldn't have come too much of a surprise, although I was hopeful they would have been able to settle things outside of the courts.

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Re: How interested in the PS3 for OS4 are you?
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@Billsey

Quote:
To confirm the earlier note that PS3 would not carry the PS2 chip in Europe


With the latest firmware updates the EE chip is almost as good as rendered redundant. All major PS2, PS1 games are well supported by the PS3 and with upscaling and smoothing options can easily be considerd a superior option in comparison to the original consoles, especially for the HDTV owners but smoothing also works with ordinary TV sets. DVD upscaling is now also supported, amongst many other improvements.

Some before and after shots (Upscaled from 480i/p to various settings):

Doom (PS1)

Before:
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After:
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Before:

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After:

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FFXII:

Before:
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j148/Xngears/Photos/IMG_8797.jpg
http://sr-388.net/images/gaming/ps3/scaling/ffxii480p.jpg

After:
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j148/Xngears/Photos/IMG_8968.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j148/Xngears/Photos/IMG_8971.jpg
http://sr-388.net/images/gaming/ps3/scaling/ffxii1080pf.jpg

Klonoa: Door to Phantomile
480i
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v121/daviddoel/Klonoa480i1.jpg
1080i
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v121/daviddoel/Klonoa1080i1.jpg

Various games upscaled:
God of War 2:
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j148/Xngears/Photos/IMG_8978.jpg
Shadow of the Colossus:
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j148/Xngears/Photos/IMG_8986.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j148/Xngears/Photos/IMG_8984.jpg
Dragon Quest 8:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/pachinko/upscaler005.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/cmagus/dqup.jpg
Kingdom Hearts II:
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j148/Xngears/Photos/IMG_9001.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j148/Xngears/Photos/IMG_9002.jpg
Silent Hill 3:
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j148/Xngears/Photos/IMG_9007.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j148/Xngears/Photos/IMG_9015.jpg
Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence:
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/5291/mgs3s03axn5.jpg

Tales of Souls:

Comment for poster: "if you view the pictures in a slideshow, the clothes get noticeably cleaned up a bit, but it looks MUCH better in motion than it does in still comparisons. Take note again that I'm working with 1080i as well."):

Before:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w308/deathchariotlol/100.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w308/deathchariotlol/200.jpg

After:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w308/deathchariotlol/101.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w308/deathchariotlol/201.jpg

GT4
Before:
http://www.gamegaia.com/xs955/NonHD.jpg

After (1080i):
http://www.gamegaia.com/xs955/HD.jpg

Before:
http://www.gamegaia.com/xs955/NonHD2.jpg

After (1080i):
http://www.gamegaia.com/xs955/HD2.jpg

Ridge Racer V
Before:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/sdxz/DSC01075.jpg

After:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/sdxz/DSC01076.jpg

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Re: How interested in the PS3 for OS4 are you?
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I don't want to comment too much on the ongoing lawsuit between Amiga Inc and Hyperion, but as this is related and now out in the public, IMO some interesting food for thought:

Most relevant parts, underlined:

Thomas Frieden: "I think what we lack is definitely a high-end system. The low end is pretty much covered, but we need some "beast" with a G5, or even better a cell... The Cell is extremely interesting, especially since Toshiba's roadmap shows a lot of promise about it in the future.

Bill McEwen: "We are working with IBM very closely on the Cell, and they have offered us some support for Cell. RJ Mical agrees with you as well about the cell."

Hans-Joerg Frieden: "Cell is certainly the way to go for the longer term future."

Bill McEwen: "OK, the next reason that I am asking is becuase we have been approached by Sony on PS3 stuff. They want to have Amiga available on that platform :)"

Hans-Joerg Frieden: "THe PS3 is a logical target"

More full story here.

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Re: PS3 port of AOS4?
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@GregS

I agree at this point, a free release isn't much of an option Hyperion will need to recover their costs somewhere.

Maybe in the distant future when another solution outperforms and outfeatures the PS3. By then the PS3 userbase may be huge and a free release could offer an interesting marketing strategy to push even more capable solutions (for example multiple higher clocked Cell processors, more RAM, expansion slots, video input, etc.

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Re: How interested in the PS3 for OS4 are you?
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@Helge

Yes and I do my best.

BTW, IMO the Playstion 3 Home is shaping up to be an excellent free service well beyond anything available from rivals.

Basically Home is this Sims like virtual world where you meet and chat with people (virtual keyboard, real keyboard or talk through a Bluetooth headset). There are many customization options for indiduals as well as environments like in your private home.

For instance in your home you can also share photos, music and videos stored on your PS3 through for instance your home virtual audio visual equipment, invite people to your home for playing games, etc.

You can check out the trailer here:
http://www.gametrailers.com/

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Re: How interested in the PS3 for OS4 are you?
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@Helge

Today interesting news is expected to come from GDC 2007. Also interesting (Cell usages with Linux):

"This week at Game Developers Conference IBM will show a Linux based PS3 real-time rendering a complex (3 million triangle) urban landscape, at 1080p resolution, using only software rendering techniques"

Weblink


Edited by MikeB on 2007/3/7 11:35:10
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Re: How interested in the PS3 for OS4 are you?
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@Elwood

Actually that's not too far from my own perspectives, but IMO the PS3 is too good of an oppertunity to wait too long, which will be available globally this month. I know quite a few people who would be interested in OS4 for the PS3, but a lot fewer with regard to less multi-functional devices.

What I wrote in response to Carl Sassenrath's OS4 x86 opinions thread (before AmigaOS4.0 was released, Oct 2006):

Quote:
Yes, that would be excellent for the long run. Having PPC based hardware like the PS3, and older Macs supported wouldn't be bad neither.

I guess some OS4 components will be easier to port to x86 that others (ExecSG and Petunia).

In the meantime it's IMO best to see 'OS4.0 Final' fully supported on the community's own PPC projects (such as the Sam) still under development and the classic PPC expansions. Maybe AmigaOS 4.1?

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Re: How interested in the PS3 for OS4 are you?
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@Jurassicc

Quote:
Have you thougt about the implications of the commercial game market for OS4. I see there being no need for OS4 titles when you can just boot PS3 ones.


Personally I prefer the old Amiga method of games booting directly from disc, or from a minimal interface like the PS3's XMB.

With regard to gaming I think generally speaking PS3 games are sufficient for me (E-UAE already runs under Linux as well), actually IMO Motorstorm and Resistance rock unlike any recent games we have seen for AmigaOS. If the AmigaOS4 games market was huge then maybe I would be more concerned regarding the gaming implications, but it's actually quite miniscule and apart from some freeware/shareware/ SCUMM games there haven't been many OS4 game releases. I think those would be able to run fine on the AmigaOS4 hosted on the PS3.

Actually these "implications"would also regard any AmigaOS4 user buying any game console next their Amiga.

Even without using the SPEs AmigaOS4 and software would run faster than anything we have now. I am more interested in running software like Pagestream, Candy Factory (v2.0), Hollywood, Photogenics, etc on AmigaOS4 than games.

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Re: How interested in the PS3 for OS4 are you?
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@Helge

The hosted OS can take advantage of 6 SPEs, software needs to be written specificly with having SPE usage in mind, an interesting video showing off Cell's rendering capabilities (40 times faster than a G5 at this, according to IBM):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lr-R4bUZIQw

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Re: How interested in the PS3 for OS4 are you?
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@LiveForIt

Quote:
SPE?s replaces the need for AltiVec unit


The Cell includes an Altivec unit as well.

Each SPE is a full 128-bit microprocessor with similarities compared to Altivec, but also significant differences.

Good summary of the Cell and SPEs at Wikipedia here.

How the Cell is implemented in the PS3:

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Re: How interested in the PS3 for OS4 are you?
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@Jack

Quote:
If os4 had multi-processor support: anything cell-based could be great.


Parallel processing capabilities were stated to become implemented in AmigaOS4.x in the future.

I agree with you, to quote myself from AW (5 July 2005):

Quote:
I understand that games developers may not be too fond of the idea of having to learn new ways to write their software. But according to the article at least they do seem to believe that multithreaded software is the way forward.

Multithreading should not be confused with multitasking. Multithreading is the ability of an operating system to execute different parts of a program, called threads, simultaneously. The programmer must carefully design the program in such a way that all the threads can run at the same time without interfering with each other.

Multithreading is mainly useful in a multi-CPU environment. One OS which has been designed with multithreading in mind is BeOS. The initial BeBox prototypes had two AT&T Hobbit processors and three DSP's, later version came with two PowerPC 603 processors running clocked at 66MHz or 133Mhz.

Today single CPU solutions are dominant, thus multithreading isn't really that much of a benefit. Software developers who mainly write for single processor solutions don't like doing extra (time=money) work to get the most out of multithreading for other platforms. Games consoles usually only run one software title at a time, however a multi-media operating system generally executes many different programs which may all have various different tasks at a time.

AmigaOS4.1 should introduce multi-threading.


Interesting comments from an IBM spokesman at AmiGBG 2005 (23rd of July 2005), summary from my report:

Quote:
Mr Haglund described the current situation with Apple as a ?marriage break up?. He speculated Apple may be upset by IBM?s various new ?mistresses? (such as for example Sony, Toshiba and Nintendo). He also countered that, unlike what Apple seems to suggest in public, IBM is still leading in terms of the Watts/Performance ratio with regard to their processors compared to available x86 technology and he believes this will likely continue to be so for the foreseeable future. He also explained that the new Cell processor technology includes a simple yet highly clocked PPC compatible processing core, but for software to really take full advantage of the new Cell technology, software needs to be optimized for using the specialized SPEs. He compared the Cell to how the classic Amigas operated, as the more impressive Amiga software took full advantage of its specialized custom chips. He wasn?t only thinking about complex Playstation3 games taking advantage of such technology (for instance dealing with lots more complex and more quantitive collisions), but also with regard to possible desktop orientated usages, like for instance for enhancing the performance of multimedia software or for advanced spreadsheet calculations.


Full report here


Edited by MikeB on 2007/2/28 13:47:27
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Re: How interested in the PS3 for OS4 are you?
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@Oppressor

Linux on the PS3 can already mount the Blu-Ray drive, some people have exploited this feature by illegally dumping Blu-Ray content using their PS3.

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Re: How interested in the PS3 for OS4 are you?
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Today my company Fun Computing has finalized a deal with Sony, more about this in the future.

With regard to my question opinions seem to be very mixed, Samantha surely seems like a great effort with potential for the embedded market.

Hopefully various OS4 solutions will soon exist next to each other, I think current AmigaOne and future Samantha, etc users will benefit indirectly if and when AmigaOs4 becomes available for the PS3. At least there are many people who are interested in AmigaOS4, yet don't want to buy a fully dedicated AmigaOS4 solution which cannot be used for more mainstream software and uses as well. A larger userbase, more software developers and more profits for Amiga related companies I think could be good for any AmigaOS4 enthusiast.

Hyperion seems to view AmigaOS4's main potential within the embedded market, and I think the PS3 could serve as a low entry Cell development platform. Cell processors are aimed for usage in many embedded settings in the near future.

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Re: How interested in the PS3 for OS4 are you?
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@LiveForIt

Some good points, but Linux support doesn't really come much from Sony with regard to the PS3, mainly just 'Other OS' support. Linux support for the PS3 comes mainly from companies like Terra Soft and IBM.

Also Sony is an international company with hundreds of offices and headquarters around the world.


Edited by MikeB on 2007/2/26 17:13:33
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Re: Amiga OS4 on PS3?? Not as cheap as some thought.
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@Mikey_C

It's also not as expensive as some have thought, some thought the device would be around 1000 Euro at least, considering the cost of components and the cost of dedicated Blu-Ray players which offer less functionality.

We can assume prices will go down eventually, due to cost reductions (slmline version) and mass productions. Personally I would even buy a device with similar specification if it only ran AmigaOS4 for 1000 Euro and if it had a crappy gaphics chip (the Cell is where lots of the PS3's graphics potential comes from). The PS3 is the cheapest Cell development platform and Blu-Ray player available, it's not the cheapest games console, for this the PS2 may look more attractive.

Building a Samantha into a full platform may well cost more than a PS3.


Edited by MikeB on 2007/2/26 13:45:36
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Re: How interested in the PS3 for OS4 are you?
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@Jurassicc

Actually the posting says:

"(we do however have to suffer being the first customers who get a PS3 without the PS2 chipset though making our PS2 BC a bit shaky from day one, more in this thread)."

How good software emulation will be compared to hardware emulation is still unknown, but we know it will be less backwards compatible at least in the beginning.

I agree it's an important factor to many.

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Re: How interested in the PS3 for OS4 are you?
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For those who are interested here's a good summary of the European launch:

NeoGAF

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