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We so need an updated browser!
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2008/5/2 12:14
From Sweden
Posts: 472
There seems to have been some kind API switch in the world of www which has rendered a lot of web sides useless in just a few month using Odyssey.

Facebook fails on many functions, including chat, and complains about obsolete browser.
Google doesn't display pictures anymore, unless one spoofs to get some old interface.
Outlook falls back to a basic interface (that actually works!).
Gmail also falls back, but it doesn't really work, or lack functionality. Confusing to use.
Finn.no (the norwegian ebay) can't create or edit ads anymore.
I guess it's just a matter of time until the banks start failing again too.

Here I am, complaining, and all I do all day long is feed my kid and work on the new (old) house. Wish I had the time to help Odyssey development, but I really don't.

Does anyone know if there is any progress being made on a new Odyssey with a smoking fresh webkit engine that could last us a few more years?

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Software developer for Amiga OS3 and OS4.
Develops for OnyxSoft and the Amiga using E and C and occasionally C++
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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2006/11/24 17:54
From Sanremo
Posts: 1700
Could anyone,please, explain me why firefox was ported (it was a huge work) and then abbandoned?..

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just popping in
Joined:
2010/10/15 6:13
Posts: 92
@Deniil

Yep I know what you mean, I have been talking about this for some time now, we badly need Timberwolf updated to the latest Firefox build and then maintained.

I applaud all other developments and progress but I kind of wish all the developers focussed there efforts on a modern web browser, WebGL and Gallium for AmigaOS 4.1.

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/5/19 13:23
From England
Posts: 3442
@nubechecorre Quote:
Could anyone,please, explain me why firefox was ported (it was a huge work) and then abbandoned?..

I don't think we ever really understood WHY the developers abandoned the port, but from what I saw on the outside, I recall the timeline went something like this:

* The developers spent insane amounts of (unpaid) work to get Firefox to work (but only tested it on their specific machines), and then released it for people to try.
* Many people found it didn't work (or not well) on their machines. Often this was due to filing systems (other than that used by the developers) behaving subtly differently.
* It was also very slow on anything other than an X1000 (but that was due to it being mostly unoptimised, e.g. every refresh redrew every pixel, with the plan being to optimise it after they got rid of all the bugs).
* One of the developers was hospitalised (or at least had serious health issues) for many months, which obviously ground development to a halt.
* Some people on AW.net trashed & insulted the developers, which upset them a lot. (Although I personally don't understand why they paid any attention to non-OS4 users at all, or even bothered visiting AW.net when there are sites like this one.)
* The guy in charge of the bounty money decided the devs had done enough for him to release the money to them, based on some mistaken assumptions (that look stupid with 20/20 hindsight but no point in bashing him further).

That combination of things (and perhaps other problems in Real Life that we know nothing about) seems to have caused them to loose interest in continuing developement.

And then not long after that Firefox changed it's development model, making big changes much more frequently. This would have added to the difficulty of keeping the Firefox port up to date, and so a further disincentive to resume development.


Personally I hope that the (paid) porting of LibreOffice will result in better tools & libraries for porting other Linux-based programs, and so might potentially make it easier for another porting attempt of Firefox (and that this time around it will be a proper paid effort).

However, unlike like Deniil, I still find Odyseey good enough for my internet needs. (But I'd never do any internet bankining on an Amiga, at least not without an up-to-date port of a modern browser.)

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Author of the PortablE programming language.
I love using Amiga OS4.1
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...
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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2008/1/6 17:56
From Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 1173
@nubechecorre
Quote:
Could anyone,please, explain me why firefox was ported (it was a huge work) and then abbandoned?..

Money.

The Timberwolf sources sit in a git repository but nobody wants to join the project and spend endless hours keeping it updated for free.

_________________
Amiga X1000 with 2GB memory & OS 4.1FE + Radeon HD 5450

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2008/1/6 17:56
From Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 1173
@Deniil
Quote:
There seems to have been some kind API switch in the world of www which has rendered a lot of web sides useless in just a few month using Odyssey.

True. Last month my ISP made changes to their WEB pages that require the latest version of four WEB browsers. I can't even change my email settings any more. Spoofing doesn't help. Apparently the latest browsers are doing stuff that Odessey doesn't support at all.

It would be nice if AmiCygnix could be updated to support a direct recompile of a major browser. Maybe that would be easier to maintain.

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Amiga X1000 with 2GB memory & OS 4.1FE + Radeon HD 5450

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Amigans Defender
Joined:
2006/12/2 13:27
From Taranto, Italy
Posts: 913
the problems of such huge projects is that is really hard to mantain if you will avoid to put patches into original code because if you need to update the code and a lot of files has changed most probably you will give up.. And this happens a lot of times expecially on browsers. on WebKit for example this happens quite monthly...
Then you have also to set up a build system that works and this is also a difficult task..

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/5/19 13:23
From England
Posts: 3442
@xenic Quote:

@nubechecorre
Quote:
Could anyone,please, explain me why firefox was ported (it was a huge work) and then abbandoned?..

Money.

The Timberwolf sources sit in a git repository but nobody wants to join the project and spend endless hours keeping it updated for free.

I think you're answering a different question than what was intended. I think the question he was trying to ask was:

"Could anyone,please, explain to me why firefox port was only partially completed (it was a huge work) but never finished?"

(At least that was how I interpreted it anyway.)
edit: nubechecorre confirmed that my interpretation of his post was correct.


Edited by ChrisH on 2017/3/27 9:03:13
Edited by ChrisH on 2017/3/27 9:03:56
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I love using Amiga OS4.1
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...
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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just popping in
Joined:
2010/10/15 6:13
Posts: 92
Again the argument, it's too big a project to maintain, the updates are too frequent and large etc etc.

If Hyperion intend to market AmigaOS 4.x as a modern operating system etc and intend to attract new users to the platform, then a modern web browser with Silverlight, Java, WebGL etc is an absolute non negotiable necessity.

The same story applies for A-eon as they are producing new hardware to expand the user base, such things as an up to date web browser is imperative, if this situation is not resolved then buying an A1222, X1000, X5000 or Acube Sam system is nothing more than an expensive emulator to get your Amiga fix with.

Odyssey has become so slow and unusable on my Pegasos 2 to the point I don't turn it on anymore, I won't buy a new A-eon machine until things change I am better off booting up the Amiga 1200T for my Amiga fix.

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just popping in
Joined:
2013/10/23 14:18
From Kuusamo, Finland
Posts: 81
@Deniil

I agree with you, we desperately need modern browser!
Hyperion, A-EON, bounty, AOTL...anyone hear our wich?

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/28 11:18
From Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Posts: 759
The entire internet is run by, retrieving files that are on distant hard drives to our computer and then running them.

I've said before, we have everything necessary to just make our own standards as far as "HTML" page layout and displaying goes.

We should start operating an "AMIGA underground network" that only we can access.

In this case, NOT "keep up with the Jones'".

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Support Amiga Fantasy cases!!!
How to program: 1. Start with lots and lots of 0's. 10. Add 1's, liberally.
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Whoah!!! He spoke, a bit late.
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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2008/1/6 17:56
From Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 1173
@Fairdinkem
Quote:
If Hyperion intend to market AmigaOS 4.x as a modern operating system etc and intend to attract new users to the platform, then a modern web browser with Silverlight, Java, WebGL etc is an absolute non negotiable necessity.


It's a necessity just to keep current users. Personally, I'd be willing to pay more for an up-to-date browser than for packages with animated cartoon backgrounds or OS updates that don't add much significant functionality to my system. If I lose access to many more accounts, my NG Amiga will be of little use to me.

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Amiga X1000 with 2GB memory & OS 4.1FE + Radeon HD 5450

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just popping in
Joined:
2012/10/17 19:42
Posts: 58
Isn't a QT based web browser the answer?
Kamelito

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2006/12/1 18:01
From Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 1022
@Fairdinkem
Quote:
a modern web browser with Silverlight, Java, WebGL etc is an absolute non negotiable necessity.
Did you just mention the word "modern" in the same sentence as SilverLight and Java?

As for WebGL, I don't know much about it, and I can't personally imagine anything I'd need it for, but that's just me, I guess.

But if you want modern web support, I'd rather look at full HTML5 support and a fast, modern JavaScript engine. (And don't hold your breath for any of those, any more than the ones you mentioned.)

Best regards,

Niels

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Amigans Defender
Joined:
2006/11/17 22:40
From England
Posts: 3141
@nbache

Quote:
Did you just mention the word "modern" in the same sentence as SilverLight


Silverlight was always horrendous, not multi-platform, and didn't gain much support. The only thing I ever needed it for I was trying to access under Linux, and I ended up using a Firefox plugin to bypass Silverlight, as Moonlight wasn't up-to-date enough to work with the site. Utter crap, I don't want anything to do with Silverlight and even Microsoft have abandoned it.

At least Flash and Java have wide adoption and are worth supporting to some extent (although both are also on their way out - in the website realm - so I don't think we should be worrying about them wrt web browsers).

Quote:
But if you want modern web support, I'd rather look at full HTML5 support and a fast, modern JavaScript engine. (And don't hold your breath for any of those, any more than the ones you mentioned.)


Absolutely agreed, and that's the route NetSurf is taking, although it will take a long time to get there with such a small number of developers. If anybody is able to help out, contact details are on www.netsurf-browser.org.

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2008/5/2 12:14
From Sweden
Posts: 472
@Atheist

Quote:

I've said before, we have everything necessary to just make our own standards as far as "HTML" page layout and displaying goes.


That's comic
Rewrite the entire Internet for Amiga (instead of rewriting Amiga software to work with the Internet). Seem a lot easier, and less work to maintain... NOT

Custom standards (like Flash, Silverlight) is exactly what we DON'T want. We want open standards like HTML5.

Quote:

We should start operating an "AMIGA underground network" that only we can access.


amigans.net and amigaworld.net, not accessible with Firefox or IExploder?

_________________
Software developer for Amiga OS3 and OS4.
Develops for OnyxSoft and the Amiga using E and C and occasionally C++
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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2009/2/9 19:32
From Brussels Belgium
Posts: 1012
Of course we need HTML5 & javascript, but odyssey has them both. Maybe some functionalities lacking in html5 , but which exactly, could that be documented?
Could those be added to the present Odyssey source?

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just popping in
Joined:
2010/10/15 6:13
Posts: 92
@nbache

Yes I did mention silverlight and modern browser in the same sentence, many websites use it for example Netflix, you may not find use for it but a Firefox port that is up to date gives me that flexibility.

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Just popping in
Joined:
2012/10/17 19:42
Posts: 58

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Re: We so need an updated browser!
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/7/7 3:34
From Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2183
stating the obvious but yes we need a modern browser/ Timberwolf update before any other software or hardware for OS4.1FE and beyond !

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