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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
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Does anyone know the purpose of the "TImeGuard" commodity? I found some docs for it at http://wiki.amiga.org/index.php?title=TimeGuard but it seems like the OS system already does automatic daylight savings switching and the time from a server can be gotten by adding a line to user-startup or startup-sequence. What functionality does it add?

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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
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Posts: 1862
@xenic

I don't know either, as you say the daylight savings and net update work by themselves already on OS4, I did ask on an 'internal email' but I think that question got lost amogst more pressing issues at the time.



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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Amigans Defender
Joined:
2006/11/17 22:40
From England
Posts: 3163
@xenic

I don't think it adds anything not already on OS4 (except time sync on an interval, for which you can install my yFacts ). I'd also recommend not installing the new Time Prefs, as the settings for timeserver, timezone etc are specific to TimeGuard or generic env-vars that OS4 sets anyway, and it does not set the corresponding OS4 settings.

Great for OS3, but irrelevant and potential nuisance on OS4.

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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
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@Chris
Quote:
I don't think it adds anything not already on OS4 (except time sync on an interval, for which you can install my yFacts ). I'd also recommend not installing the new Time Prefs, as the settings for timeserver, timezone etc are specific to TimeGuard or generic env-vars that OS4 sets anyway, and it does not set the corresponding OS4 settings.

Great for OS3, but irrelevant and potential nuisance on OS4.


Thanks for the info. That sort of thing is one reason I've been slowly been installing Enhancer stuff by hand. The extra classes etc. don't hurt anything but I think some of the software should be additions instead of replacements. Before I install anything from Enhancer I use Dopus4 to comment all the Enhancer files (with the text "Enhancer") so I can keep track of what files are OS4 installed and which are Enhancer updates.

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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
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Joined:
2006/12/4 21:53
From www.amigakit.com
Posts: 428
@Chris @kas1e

Please remember that the Enhancer Software project is still just less than a year old and has significant momentum already with three major public releases published so far.

Of course it is a project that is continuing to be developed and has had a lot of enthusiasm and hard work invested by the AmigaDeveloper.com Team.

At the moment the foundations are being established with regular updates and advancement along the road map. As you have seen from the evidence of the last 10 months, we will not be taking two years to release a maintenance update.

All of the enhanced components have added functionality and features to the original. Many of the original components have not been touched or updated in many years (or decades in the case of Clock)

Some of the components you mentioned were:

Quote:
sound.datatype could be a big problem if the OS version gets updated, as it will either be stuck on v53 forever, or need to have all the v54 functionality, or simply be incompatible.


Sound Datatype - multi channel with support for streaming, written from the ground up. The original sound datatype has not been updated for quite some years so the new Sound DTC in the Enhancer Software represents a significant advancement. It will be continued to be updated as needed.

Clock - based on new clock.gadget and datesheet.gadget, now fully skinnable, 4.1 FE GUI, advanced alarm features, Arexx port. Wiki is here with screen shots: http://wiki.amiga.org/index.php?title=Clock

Resized Image Resized Image

Quote:
Format is potentially slightly problematic if there's an update, although I have no idea what the differences are.


Format command introduces SmartFileSystem specific support as well as support for other filesystems. If you run it you will instantly be able to see the enhancements to GUI. I take it you haven't had chance to use it yet? Wiki is here with screen shots: http://wiki.amiga.org/index.php?title=Format

Resized Image Resized Image Resized Image

Further consolidation of the Enhancer Software components will be a theme going forward building on the base aleady established. This is the best way we can assure the quality levels of the software and timely updates.

For example, we recently added progress bar gadget support in Ringhio Notifications. We are now free to add a minimise Format window to Ringhio Notification bubble. If we did not have access to our own Format command we could not have added this functionality.

Resized Image



Edited by amigakit on 2017/1/25 21:00:58
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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
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2007/9/11 11:31
From Russia
Posts: 4192
@amigakit
Quote:

we will not be taking two years to release a maintenance update.

:)) I got what you mean, sure, your team works faster. But still, you should't rewrite system components as it will lead to mess in end when os itself will provide updates.

Quote:

Sound Datatype - multi channel with support for streaming, written from the ground up. The original sound datatype has not been updated for quite some years so the new Sound DTC in the Enhancer Software represents a significant advancement. It will be continued to be updated as needed.


New updated version of course cool, but we say that rewriting of things which is system components by default are bad thing and will lead to mess in end, sadly. As those original system components under hyperions control, that mean that any os update of that component will destroy your version, and install os-defalt one. After 2 or 3 updates they both will be incompatibly of each others, and that will classic amiga mess.

For example sound.datatype _VERY_ possible will be updated by os4 itself, and they will release it together with update and users will be in mess. System default version, your version, all named the same, different functionality -> mess which we don't need.

But anyway, Enhancer is cool, and that is A LOT and MUCH better to discuss what we discuss now, in 2017, instead of duscussing that we have nothing to discuss :)

Btw, as we here in same topic, i have some small suggestion list which you can skip of course, but just to think about in meanwhile:) :

1. change log and docs. don't get me wrong, i know that app itself is much more important than writing docs for or put changelogs to guide, but that really necessary so everyone will know what he want to know. I.e. it can be something like "Enhancer_ChangeLog_UpdateXX.guide", and there is all Enhancer components, and in every of them changelogs. Cut off what is private, and put only what you can to show (i expect almost everything). Or better what is private - rephrase it.

Change logs must. They just make whole thing look proffesional and polished. Without, all looks like "we collect what we have right now and let's go!"

That not only my opinion, everyone as i see agree with.

2. SDK of all components correctly structured. There is usuall order of where should be placed .h and .a files. Users don't need to dig in everywhere on CD to search for them.

Sure, that all some work to be done before releases, but, if you want to make it better, then some time need to spend on as well (as i say before, i can provide my help with).

And few suggestions:

1. Replace amistore on native interface. If it hollywood be it hollywood , just with mui-royale, so everyhtng will feels "system" and not alien as it now when you can't scroll in normal way.

2. If you will put all your gadgets classes for free and for public with SDK : then, there is chances that it will be supported by others devs. If you will not do it, no one except those who in your team will use them of course.

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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
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Joined:
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From England
Posts: 3163
@amigakit

Quote:
Please remember that the Enhancer Software project is still just less than a year old and has significant momentum already with three major public releases published so far.

Of course it is a project that is continuing to be developed and has had a lot of enthusiasm and hard work invested by the AmigaDeveloper.com Team.


Yes, great work so far. I wasn't complaining, just making observations

Quote:
Format [...] I take it you haven't had chance to use it yet?


Correct, I'm wary of running Format on a whim in case I accidentally format something I shouldn't!

Quote:
For example, we recently added progress bar gadget support in Ringhio Notifications.


It would be nice to see some C includes for this. Also, as kas1e said, unless they are freely available it limits their usefulness.

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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Just popping in
Joined:
2008/4/30 4:49
From UK
Posts: 166
A nice program to use would be Asciidoc/AsciidocFX

Creates great formatted text easily into html, pdf etc

even source code snippets could be inserted eg changelog.

http://asciidoctor.org/docs/asciidoc-writers-guide/

Its really what the AmigaGuide format could have been...

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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
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Posts: 95
@AmigaDevleoperTeam

Can you guys please update the port of Timberwolf?

Odyssey doesn't load all pages correctly and is slow, Netsurf doesn't load all pages correctly or handle media properly, and well, you know all the rest.

Enhancer is a nice package but what good is a computer these days when you can't interact with the internet properly?

It doesn't have to be Timberwolf by the way, but I figure why not? This is where people chime in and say, it's to out of date, who is going to maintain it, it's to big a job to do, just wait for Fab and the team to fix Odyssey... BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Timberwolf is almost as capable in its horrendously unfinished state as Odyssey, well on my Pegasos 2 it is anyway. An updated version will open users to an array of useful add-ons via plugins etc that enhance your internet experience.

AmigaOS which ever edition is further slipping behind in web browsing capability with every passing day, the AmigaOS team be it A-eon, Amiga Developer Team, Hyperion, someone needs to bring about a solution.

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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
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@Fairdinkem

I don't think they would/could.

I could be wrong but here's why i think it won't happen (at least not with Odyssey/Timberwolf)

1) Odyssey and Timberwolf are both based on open source and both are based on a license which forbids to make parts/addition or even changes to said source closed (I don't know which licenses those use, but judging from the fuzz a comment about refusing additions to Timberwolf created back then -no link, sorry, everyone knows what i'm talking about-, it just won't be possible to take those code, close source it and sell it - I may be wrong, of course, someone with more knowledge, please chime in)

(And it needs to be sold, AmigaKit needs to create income, no AmigaDeveloper.com dev will create anything under AmigaKit's flag for free - and i completely understand and go with that decision, people have to eat sometimes!)


2) The AmigaDeveloper.com crew is a paid group of devs which work under contracts and work toward aims those contracts give (Not knowing any of the details of course, i'm just guessing, so please don't hit!).
They rely on stuff they have exclusive access to (secured by A-EON and AmigaKit) and, for obvious reasons, don't share any of their sources, be it because it was NDA/closed source before or it is done under closed source by one/all of it's members exclusively for A-EON/AmigaKit while written from scratch.


3) AmigaKit, who pays those devs and create income for their own company, would need to hire some (if not most) of it's devs to this target (because very buggy already, need so much work to make it up-to-date again and even more work to add features we all want to finally see in browsers on the Amiga) without any chance to secure or lock the source they have/change/add to due to it's open source nature and to be able to ultimately sell it to create income and payment for their devs.

I guess this is not going to happen, at least not with the available open source browsers (again, i don't know know anything about open source, laws, i don't know if it could be possible to take the old Odyssey/Timberwolf sources, add a bunch of stuff and sell it under a new name, but i doubt it, given the fact a lot of the browsers on Windows/Linux built on top of or from the Chrome/Chromium sources are still freely available)

Safe to say IF there was an Enhancer package v2.0 (or a Browser package or whatever it would be called) with an updated (and promised to be further updated) web broswer based on a modern language (KHTML, chrome/chromium etc.) i would gladly pay a second time for it (still waiting for my Enhancer CD), because i, as you, think that an updated and further developed web browser would still be the killer app on AmigaOS4 (let aside an upcoming Office Package).

It may not be Odyseey, it may not be Timberwolf but here's my call to AmigaKit.

I second Fairdinkem, if you can add a (modern over time even) web browser to your software portfolio, you will be more game than with anything else you offer right now (not saying that anything right now is bad...!)
^^^^^^^^^^
This is my personal opinion, of course, don't want to put anyone off.

...

Your turn, AmigaKit



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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
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@Fairdinkem
Quote:
AmigaOS which ever edition is further slipping behind in web browsing capability with every passing day, the AmigaOS team be it A-eon, Amiga Developer Team, Hyperion, someone needs to bring about a solution.

Agreed.

Since most of everyone's (with a few exceptions) computer time is now spent on the Internet, people will be forced to use another OS/hardware most of the time. The less time people spend using an NG Amiga, the less likely it is that they will want to spend more money on an NG Amiga.

Recently, my ISP updated their WEB pages and only support recent versions of 4 different browsers. I can no longer change my email settings with any Amiga browsers. If it gets to the point where I can no longer access bank accounts, PayPal or important merchants, I'll be looking for a PC instead of more Amiga hardware & software.

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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
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@xenic

I have to use a PC since a few months now to access the firmware page of my router (more pages yet to come, i'm afraid)...so anything that can be done about it will be very welcomed

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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
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From Dumfries, Scotland
Posts: 110
@xenic

I know what you mean and agree with you but you could install Linux on your machine and use the browsers available for it.

And yes, if that's all you would use the machine for, that's a very expensive Linux box

Fred

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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
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From England
Posts: 3482
@xenic Quote:
If it gets to the point where I can no longer access bank accounts, PayPal or important merchants, I'll be looking for a PC instead of more Amiga hardware & software.

That seems... a bit of an over-reaction, IMHO. Why can't you use an Amiga AND a PC, as needed? That's what I've been doing since maybe 2001 or so. And TBH, I'm not sure I'd feel safe using an Amiga browser to access bank accounts or PayPal.

FolderSync2 allows me to keep my data files synced, so I can use Amiga or PC without much thought. And this KVM works quite well with a modern Amiga:
http://www.aten.com/global/en/product ... top-kvm-switches/cs1782a/

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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
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@Fairdinkem Quote:
Can you guys please update the port of Timberwolf?

I have NO inside information, but I personally suspect that once the port of LibreOffice/OpenOffice is finished (*), they might look at TimberWolf again.

Why? First they are both ridiculously huge complex projects, and we don't have many Amiga developers capable of porting such behmoths, so they can't do both simultaneously. Second, I'd guess that a lot of the stuff needed to make LibreOffice work can be re-used with TimberWolf. (And actually, they likely already used some TimberWolf stuff for LibreOffice... even if it was only enhancements made to OS4 so that TimberWolf would work.)

OTOH, I don't recall what GUI toolkit is used by LibreOffice, but perhaps there is another modern (but more obscure) browser that has more in common with OpenOffice. (I'm thinking something along the lines of Konqueror.) And that might make more sense than Firefox, which is undergoing extremely big changes at the moment (and the coming use of Rust might make it tricky to use on the Amiga).

(* I'm not sure if that's an AmigaDeveloper.com project, or just a project personally funded by Trevor.)


Edited by ChrisH on 2017/1/29 12:38:50
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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
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@Fairdinkem Quote:
Odyssey doesn't load all pages correctly

I've found Odyssey amazingly good... but our OS4 version (v1.23) is from 3 years ago, so it starts to have trouble with some more recent stuff.

I can't recall why the slightly-newer version (v1.24) from 2.5 years ago wasn't ported, but apparently MorphOS might eventually get a much newer version (v1.25) :
Quote:
Fab work on a new version of Odyssey (1.25) based on WebKit r181xxx.
This new version will have functional javascript, HTML5 video features, etc.

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/ ... sortorder=0&showonepost=1

I presume that might then get ported to OS4:
http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum ... &forum=40#forumpost102396

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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
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@ChrisH
Yep, once mos will have new-workin version and sources will be open without any hidden parts , then i can make os4 version as well, of course.

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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
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Posts: 166
@ChrisH

My experience with Windows web clients are they are memory hogs and very insecure & inefficient.

One way to solve this would be to write a fast and efficient client.

Maybe the state of the art servo parallel browser, thats gaining excitement could be ported.

https://github.com/servo/servo

It uses the new systems programming language Rust.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q9vIMXSTzc


Edited by angelheart on 2017/1/29 16:32:37
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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
Amigans Defender
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@angelheart

Quote:
One way to solve this would be to write a fast and efficient client.


Good luck with that.

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Re: AmigaDeveloper.com Team Progress Update
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Posts: 1242
@Raziel
Quote:
I have to use a PC since a few months now to access the firmware page of my router (more pages yet to come, i'm afraid)...so anything that can be done about it will be very welcomed

Fortunately, my 4 year old router and WIFI adapter have simple HTML pages for accessing firmware & settings. I suppose you will need to wait for an updated Amiga browser to access your router from your Amiga.

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