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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/1/26 21:48
From New Zealand
Posts: 2196
@zzd10h
Quote:
Why, A-Eon or Hyperion, not officially admit when a project is dead ? (netbook or Warp3D on Radeon HD)

Perhaps they haven't admitted that because it isn't true. Maybe they don't say anything because they simply have nothing new to tell right now.

EDIT: No, don't consider this an official statement on its current status. I don't speak for A-EON.

Quote:
We all know that AmigaOS4 is a hobbist system, it's a fun one but not very stable, we are all beta-testing it.
Therefore, why not release, for example, this pa6t_eth.device driver for every 3000€ x1000 customer since 1 year of beta-testing ?

Trust me, you're not beta-testing it. The PA6T ethernet driver will be released when the actual beta testers and developers have decided that it's stable enough for a public release. Not before.


@all

I see that we are at the "you should give us more news/information" part of the cycle again. This will eventually be followed by "that's announcement/news is rather meaningless, I want to know when something is done." After that will come "why don't you shut up until you have some real news" and "don't say anything until it's almost ready." After that, will come "you should give us more...."

Given the slow pace of development, I'm not sure that this cycle can be avoided. On the bright side, at least we know that people still care. Development continues in the meantime.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - more of my work
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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
Just popping in
Joined:
2010/5/22 11:35
From Mobile, Alabama, USA
Posts: 221
First, let me be clear that anything I write that might be considered criticism is never leveled at anybody coding away into the wee hours on an Amiga keyboard anywhere. I'm more directing my points toward policymakers and policies.

I watch the forums and the usual suspects among the whiners and complainers (who usually are NOT to found at Amigans.net) seldom overlap with the paying customers or even the potential customers. I know they make a loud noise and frustrate the heck out anybody working hard to make things nice for us, but they are going to go about their whiny business no matter what. The rest of us... we can take it! :) Don't tell us a netbook is coming out in a year, not mention it at all a whole year later, and a year after that say something went wrong rather soon after the first announcement was made. Don't tell us Warp3D is coming in a few months and then leave it hanging for months and years when maybe something went off the tracks in spectacular fashion. Given a plain, honest assessment of the situation, somebody ELSE might have come up with something to help in the meantime. We recently got a top-class (it is tops in Amiga class for sure!) web browser and also the ability for the first time ever to play high-def video on an AmigaOS machine because some folks outside the circle jumped in and got busy. I count coders as well as testers and bounty payers here.

And the notion that Hyperion or any other entity is silent because it doesn't want to give false hopes is not accurate. That's because promises ARE still made... and then followed up by years of silence on progress. Enough of this cycle... let's have real progress reports. Don't say we're not entitled. This stuff is NOT cheap to buy. And it's not just money that is invested, but also time and passion and emotion.

For anybody still left who can't let Amiga go, it's more than software and hardware. Anybody left is kinda in the same boat as the rest of us. And the cause is not helped by separation of classes (developers/beta testers/users) fueled by unnecessary secrecy. I respect the heck out of all the developers. I respect Hyperion, ACube and most especially A-Eon and AmigaKit for making this hobby possible. Sometimes, I don't get the impression the users/customers get the respect back in the way it should be given, considering our situation and the small market/community size.

I don't mean to be on a soapbox and I sure don't mean to offend anybody, especially those developers/testers/businessfolk I count as friends. But I am increasingly feeling a bit antagonized by the way things are.

To be brutally frank, since I have been all Polly Sunshiny with optimism over the years in regard to AmigaOS, I think you should consider my feelings of dissatisfaction as signs of a real problem.

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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
Just popping in
Joined:
2013/10/2 4:12
From Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 20
@mbrantley

+1

The silence on certain projects (not all) is deafening, and frustrating for all concerned.

For example, members of the community having to do what we are doing right now to get Warp3D support via old supported PCI cards - using weird PCI-X converters and extenders to get around pci 33Mhz bus speeds on our X1000's to use them.

This work wouldn't be necessary except for having no idea when (and if) Warp3D support will ever come to Radeon HD cards for X1000 owners. We assume it isn't, hence the work to create a workaround recently.

The lively ongoing development of LiveForIt Mplayer, Dopus5 and Odyssey (with a lot of end user beta testing) in 2014 have been great highlights for me personally, that have really genuinely pushed forward what the AmigaOS4 platform can do. We have seen a lot of collaboration done on these projects, and they are great for building interest too! I am certainly more engaged and wanting to do more with my X1000 as a result.

More of this kind of development please, with engagement with the remaining community on ongoing developments (to make us feel things are actually happening) is the key to retaining the community's interest in the AmigaOS4 platform.

Also, we know a lot of software is BETA state (like DOpus5 was in development phase) and needs testing to refine it. This is not a tens of thousands or million plus user base we are talking about here for AmigaOS4. Why not get the software out there more regularly (in BETA form) for the community to help with that process, and make them feel involved in pushing forward the platform? It works!

Anyway, my 2 cents. I love the AmigaOS4 platform and just want to continue to see ongoing developments and progress made and communicated. I am grateful for all development work being done to push the platform forward.

Catcha,
Epsilon

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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
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Joined:
2009/7/7 3:34
From Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2324
@ ddni, Epsilon, mbrantley, zzd10h, Amigasociety et all.

+1 my fellow amigans


_________________
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Indivision AGA & Catweasel MK4+= Amazing
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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
Just popping in
Joined:
2010/5/22 11:35
From Mobile, Alabama, USA
Posts: 221
@AmigaSociety

Greyer or balder? I resemble that remark! ;)

Anyway, sorry to get all doomy and gloomy above. It's impossible for me to stay that way... it's just that this Amiga thing is one of my passions in life. No good reason for it, except it was a big part of things for me at a fondly remembered time .... and Windows and Linux suck and Mac is not much better. ;)

Epsilon, I could not have made the points better and in fact did not make them as well as you did. Cheers, mate!

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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/7/7 3:34
From Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2324
@mbrantley wrote:

Quote:
Greyer or balder? I resemble that remark! ;)


shamelessly raises hand ...I'm sure many of us represent both remarks (btw I thought Americans spelled grey gray )

_________________
_______________________________
c64-dual sids, A1000, A1200-060@50, A4000-CSMKIII
Indivision AGA & Catweasel MK4+= Amazing
! My Master Miggies-Amiga1000 & AmigaONE X1000 !
mancave-ramblings

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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
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Joined:
2007/1/26 21:48
From New Zealand
Posts: 2196
@mbrantley

Quote:
And the notion that Hyperion or any other entity is silent because it doesn't want to give false hopes is not accurate. That's because promises ARE still made... and then followed up by years of silence on progress. Enough of this cycle... let's have real progress reports.


I don't think that "false hopes" is the reason. IIRC, the last time that Hyperion posted on AW.net, they were driven away quite forcefully. You may personally respect Hyperion, ACube, etc., but it's pretty clear that others do not. The community reaps what it sows...

That's not to say that Hyperion is perfect. However, the comments here suggest that people want to put the blame squarely on them. The truth is that the communication breakdown is a bidirectional one.


@Epsilon
Quote:
The lively ongoing development of LiveForIt Mplayer, Dopus5 and Odyssey (with a lot of end user beta testing) in 2014 have been great highlights for me personally, that have really genuinely pushed forward what the AmigaOS4 platform can do. We have seen a lot of collaboration done on these projects, and they are great for building interest too! I am certainly more engaged and wanting to do more with my X1000 as a result.

More of this kind of development please...

Yes, we need a lot more of this kind of development. The OS developers can't do it all alone, and drivers are kind of boring without applications that take advantage of them.

I'm glad to finally see more developers take advantage of compositing. One of the reasons why I created the Composite3DDemo, was to try to inspire others to see what they could do with compositing. Back then I was a bit disappointed with the lack of response. So, it's nice to see that more developers are taking advantage of it. Apart from the MPlayer improvements, it's also quite effectively used in Ace of Hearts (and AmiBoing's games, of course).

If you're a developer, then please create stuff. Don't wait until "feature X" is available in the OS; work with what we have now.

If you can't code, try learning. You might actually enjoy it. I think that Hollywood is a great system to learn the basics with, and its multimedia capabilities make it easy to create nice looking results quickly. Ignore any disparaging comments about "bloatware" or not being "real coding." My introduction to programming was with crappy BASIC scripts on a C64.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - more of my work
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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
Just popping in
Joined:
2010/10/15 6:13
Posts: 96
Mbrantley and Epsilon

I whole heartedly agree - lack of updates = great frustration.

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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2007/10/25 9:21
From Gothenburg / Sweden
Posts: 1175
@mbrantley

Well spoken

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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
Quite a regular
Joined:
2013/10/5 14:07
From Italy
Posts: 617
Guys ... yes i know good what means be frustrated for "no software" but only because i think "gosh we have the hardware but not the drivers"
...this is from since 1994 and is a part of Amiga story.

The big problem is during ages people become really bored about and we loose many users and great developers too.

Now we are a small community, and we continue speack about what we know good, "no devs no party".
Right now i can count 20(max) really active developers in our AmigaOS4 communuty, and we have to say a great thanks to this people who are loosing their personal time and spend it for a dream.
(Sed this dream is becoming age by age more far to be realized)
I make my part buy the software (who some time i dont really need) or make donations for be thay become "more motivated".

now lets stop speack about warp3d who is a classic amiga thing and letz hope the Gallium/mesa will become a reall thing.

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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2006/11/29 8:09
From Lyon, France
Posts: 1007
@Hans

Quote:
Apart from the MPlayer improvements, it's also quite effectively used in Ace of Hearts (and AmiBoing's games, of course)


And WaZp3D ! Without this excellent software from Alain, many X1000 and Sam460 users wouldn't have been able to play many games and/or watch some demos.

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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/28 11:18
From Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Posts: 759
Hi Everyone!!!

The way I see it is....

Amiga has stumbled and fallen. (In 1994 and ~1996.)

The second time, it was in no way, shape, or form enhanced!!!! It was the same OLD OLD technology from 1992.

Now what we have is a "rag tag team of stubborn zealots, pushing forward through a desert, at night in a sandstorm...."

And just who or what is "the competition"?

Well, windos has spent probably $100,000,000,000 on software coding. Yes, one hundred billion dollars US. Probably double that, even. And guess what, they have yet to make a product I want to use WILLINGLY. And if you add in all of the software from productivity and games outside of ms, well, that's just a number so high that a 32 bit CPU can't reach. And the other competition is Apple; they have $150,000,000,000 in cash reserves!!!!! That's right, one hundred fifty billion $$$ US! And the other, other competition??? One) they've been coding since 1992, and two) they have probably in the neighbourhood of 50,000 coders!!!!!!!!

Choice number two is over priced, and does NOT work as computers were first intended to. And that SEVERELY over priced "toy" yes, "toy", IpAD, does NOT impress me at all. (As long as it isn't AOS on there.)

Linux, still too complicated to use TO THIS DAY (20+ years later!!!), and doesn't have features that AOS has. Namely, the operating system is TOO BIG (and many, MANY other problems.)

Can you imagine that? ALL OF THAT going AGAINST Amiga, and I still want to use Amiga? They are SERIOUSLY doing something WRONG, or Amiga is just too damn right!

Many people think that I'm crazed, but why is it too much to ask for at least ONE electronic device, to "start" and "stop" at the press of a button? And to do what YOU want it to do? We are "living in the future" since 1985, when the first Amiga became available. Seems to me that, none of those other people are aware of that yet.

Question is, do they deserve my pity?



You know what? From the way I see it.... We are doing REALLY REALLY REALLY well.

We probably have the highest ratio of programmers to users, too. That's pretty cool, I say.


I will get the new fastest Cyrus that A-Eon make. I don't know when I'll be able to afford to buy it, but the day that I can, that is the same day that I will place my order.


Any company, coder, and/or user that is here, or was, impresses me immensely, well, unless after leaving they turn against us, that is.


I have to say, and I think it's okay to bring it up here, I do look forward to the Apollo Amiga old school computer becoming commercially available. It's basically what the NatAmi was going to be. That WILL bring Amigans out of the wood work. It will sell over 5,000 in 2 years. I hope that Hyperion will want to use the AOS3 source code they have and release a new version for it. For that to work, the two need to be released at the same time so that every Apollo motherboard purchased comes with the official AOS3.? upgrade.


What I'm saying is, I am "in" 4 the long, loooong haul!


P.S. It bothered me too, that we didn't find out about the netbook being cancelled for a long long time. However, look at the 3 competitors' capabilities. We are a speck of dust. Again I say, we are doing exceptionally good.

_________________
Support Amiga Fantasy cases!!!
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Whoah!!! He spoke, a bit late.
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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/28 11:18
From Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Posts: 759
Quote:
mbrantley said:

Greyer or balder? I resemble that remark! ;)

Get that "hair in a can", man, "hair in a can"...

Hey, is that stuff spray paint or silly string, anyway???

_________________
Support Amiga Fantasy cases!!!
How to program: 1. Start with lots and lots of 0's. 10. Add 1's, liberally.
"Details for OS 5 will be made public in the fourth quarter of 2007, ..." - Bill McEwen
Whoah!!! He spoke, a bit late.
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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/28 11:18
From Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Posts: 759
Okay, tell me how you would take this.

You aren't going to believe what I saw about 5 hours ago on AmigaWorld.Net.

There was a user on there who joined in 2003 logged in.


Take a guess how many posts he made.

_________________
Support Amiga Fantasy cases!!!
How to program: 1. Start with lots and lots of 0's. 10. Add 1's, liberally.
"Details for OS 5 will be made public in the fourth quarter of 2007, ..." - Bill McEwen
Whoah!!! He spoke, a bit late.
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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
Quite a regular
Joined:
2008/4/10 13:57
From Northern Ireland
Posts: 901
@Atheist

I agree, to still be here in 2014 with new hardware and active developers is a huge achievement. We are doing extremely well!!

That AmigaOS is my everyday operating system and my Amiga is powerful enough to cope with all of my daily computing needs is outstanding.

_________________
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Radeon R9 270X

http://www.tinylife.org.uk/
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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
Quite a regular
Joined:
2006/11/28 11:18
From Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Posts: 759
Thanks ddni.


Hey, what a dummy, me. I just now am paying attention to your avatar... That is brilliant! LOL!!!


And I love The Simpsons.


Know when I first heard of it? When I was watching The Tracey Ullman Show when it was still new episodes. I caught one episode, and didn't watch it any more. I didn't like it. However, later on (months later, probably), I was switching channels, and I caught the end of one of her skits and left it on the channel for some reason, and before the commercial came on they played a, maybe 40 second clip of "the Simpsons" and they were NOT "The Simpsons" at that time, in fact they didn't even have names, from what I found out later... They were using short segments just for filler to the commercial. That very first one I saw, I said "THAT SHOULD BE A SHOW!!!!!" It was really funny, and the way it was drawn combined perfectly.

I was "sold" just like that. If I had only had the money to invest!!!!!!!!!!!

I was HIGHLY sceptical of Futurama, when I heard the premise. However, after the FIRST episode, I saw episode 1 when it originally started, I was sold on that too. Pure genius!!!

_________________
Support Amiga Fantasy cases!!!
How to program: 1. Start with lots and lots of 0's. 10. Add 1's, liberally.
"Details for OS 5 will be made public in the fourth quarter of 2007, ..." - Bill McEwen
Whoah!!! He spoke, a bit late.
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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
Quite a regular
Joined:
2013/10/5 14:07
From Italy
Posts: 617
@Atheist

I return on Amiga scene in june 2012 after 10 years of windows Xp, Vista, 7 and MacOS x 10.6, 10.7. 10.8 and now 10.9 ...
Had been a
440@600 sold for 440@667 sold for
Amiga 4000@604e366mhz sold for
460@1017 sold
AmigaOne Xe@933 sold
Now my system is a Pegasos2@1266mhz with 9800pro now in selling and soon ... :P
im using linuxPPC making strange experiments on my second Quad G5 .
and i can say for sure nothing is like AmigaOs and Workbench ... nothing!.

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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
Quite a regular
Joined:
2008/4/10 13:57
From Northern Ireland
Posts: 901
lol, yep I love the Simpsons too. When it first aired, I had a strong affinity with Bart. Now I am older than Homer

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AmigaOne X1000.
Radeon R9 270X

http://www.tinylife.org.uk/
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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/7/7 3:34
From Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2324
ddni wrote:

Quote:
Now I am older than Homer


DHO: !


_________________
_______________________________
c64-dual sids, A1000, A1200-060@50, A4000-CSMKIII
Indivision AGA & Catweasel MK4+= Amazing
! My Master Miggies-Amiga1000 & AmigaONE X1000 !
mancave-ramblings

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Re: SSolie quote - "Warp3D is going away"
Quite a regular
Joined:
2008/4/10 13:57
From Northern Ireland
Posts: 901
@328gts

lol

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http://www.tinylife.org.uk/
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