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The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2009/10/7 0:11
From Copenhagen
Posts: 1188
Screenshot 1

;)

Well, it is by far the slowest web browsing experience I have ever had, but hey, it actually works...

EDIT: And by the way, the screenshot was done with another cool Qt app called "screengrab" (see the icon to the right in the dock).

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Re: The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/30 18:43
From Norway
Posts: 2469
Looks nice. What kinda browser is this?
And how usefull is qt really? Does it run decent speed?
Does it support hw acceleration?

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Re: The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2006/12/2 0:31
From Poland
Posts: 252



...on what hardware, X1000?

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Sam440 flex 800MHz RAM 1GB R9250 128MB OS4.1 SBLive! ->
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Re: The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
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2009/10/7 0:11
From Copenhagen
Posts: 1188
@antique

It is a webkit browser. And well, here on my sam-flex 667 it is soooo sloooow, that I can easily go and make a cup of cofee before the page has loaded... So not very useful in it's current state. But hey, it has got a download manager and private browsing, so it is very feature complete ;).

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Re: The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
Just popping in
Joined:
2006/11/27 14:26
Posts: 75
QT apps run in aceptable speed on arm devices at 600 mhz (the same power as pentium 2 500 mhz). Why so slow on sam 667 mhz that is in the same range of power if not more?

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Re: The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
Amigans Defender
Joined:
2006/12/2 13:27
From Taranto, Italy
Posts: 916
because they are not hw accelereated

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Re: The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
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2006/12/2 3:55
From Italy, Perugia
Posts: 3125
@alfkil

Very very interesting, you know we all looking forward to test it

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Re: The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
Quite a regular
Joined:
2008/10/29 10:20
From Uppsala, Sweden
Posts: 721
@alfkil
Nice

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Re: The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2008/12/20 17:26
Posts: 259
"QT apps run in aceptable speed on arm devices at 600 mhz (the same power as pentium 2 500 mhz)."

They say Rasdberry pi @ 700Mhz has the CPU performance of 300MHz Pentium 2, so are you sure about "your" 600Mhz performance?

" Why so slow on sam 667 mhz that is in the same range of power if not more?
"

As said, HW acceleration. And some ARM chips have a working L2 (SAM440ep 667Mhz does not). (btw. pi uses L2 only for GPU)

(also my 600Mhz cell phone has ok web speed, surely because GPU helps and the code is heavily optimized by mainstream SW developers)

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--------------------------PowerPC-Advantage------------------------
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Re: The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
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Joined:
2009/10/7 0:11
From Copenhagen
Posts: 1188
@thread

Well, given that Qt either uses miniGL or compositing for rendering, I would say that it actually is hw accellerated. I have a theory, that the slowness is due to some QImage/QPixmap conversion problems. Basically, what I have done so far is to always translate a QImage to 32-bit ARGB, which will take some time for large images. Still, Qt is just a hawk for resources, both CPU and memory wise, so it is never possible to achieve lightning speed.

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Re: The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
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Joined:
2010/11/12 18:45
From Warsaw/Poland
Posts: 77
As Alfkil said, the MiniGL or composition is used to render graphics, thus the rendering is actually hardware accelerated.

In my opinion Qt speed can be in conjunction with the abstraction layers used by it and disproportions between Qt and AmigaOS philosophy. The authors of Qt hadn't AmigaOS in mind when writing Qt, so the comparision to other devices and systems may be inappropriate.

What I mean is that Qt uses own classes for Timer, Keyboard events, Mouse events etc., while AmigaOS uses timer.device, input.device (window.class) etc. Proper transformation of Qt into AmigaOS philosophy may solve the problem. It might be useful to look what parts of Qt are requiring the most CPU or GPU load and improve the algorithms. I'd like to notice that the biggest problem with regular porting to AmigaOS (I'm not saying here about Qt) is to not look into the code of the program. Frequently this leads to speed problems.

It MAY require changing (adapting to AmigaOS components) some of the interiors of the Qt in order to get the good speed. I understand that we may need to avoid such solution (to not cause other problems).

I'd really like to dig into this problem (Qt speed), cause programming is my passion, and I've had speed problems for a long time with my programs for classic Amiga aswell. I solved many of these problems. :) I know C++ from some books and from the subject in University, but I'm not much experienced (not much practice).

I really appreciate Alfkil's work, because Qt seems to be large library and adapting it to Amiga is a great work.

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Re: The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
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Joined:
2009/10/7 0:11
From Copenhagen
Posts: 1188
@RNS_Amiga_Club

Hey, if you want to contribute, be my guest, I can add you to the repository on sourceforge, if you have an account there. :)

BUT please be aware, that everything with the Qt implementation is very delicate, it is very easy to screw things up. For one thing, DON'T MESS WITH THE EVENT HANDLING SYSTEM, it is pretty clear, that the Qt authors have spent a great deal of time fine tuning this part, and also I don't think there is anything to be gained in trying to change it, except for maybe breaking the entire library. If you want, you can look in "src/corelib/kernel/qeventdispatcher_amiga.cpp", but as I have said earlier, I just using a bare bones signal event system, and I don't think it can be optimized much (or at all).

When all that is said, any help would be highly appreciated, Qt is a mean big chunk of beast of a motherf*er, and handling it just one person can actually be quite stressfull.

EDIT: And by the way: Unless you have an X1000 (and even then), you should STRONGLY consider setting up a cross compiling environment for building Qt projects (I am assuming you have some kind of PC/mac stashed up somewhere). The speed of c++ compiling on AmigaOS 4.1 is horrendous...
If you want to set up a cross compiling environment for Qt, please contact me over chat or email, since it is a bit of a complicated process.

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Re: The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
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2010/11/12 18:45
From Warsaw/Poland
Posts: 77
@Alfkil

All right, I've got account there but first I just look into the Qt code to see if I can be of any help. I'm rather good at analyzing the code, but I'll see if Qt isn't too big problem for me ;)

I've got a few projects at the moment (Amiga classic ones), but I'll try to find a time for Qt.

Regards
Robert

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Re: The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
Just popping in
Joined:
2010/11/12 18:45
From Warsaw/Poland
Posts: 77
@Alfkil
Quote:
EDIT: And by the way: Unless you have an X1000 (and even then), you should STRONGLY consider setting up a cross compiling environment for building Qt projects (I am assuming you have some kind of PC/mac stashed up somewhere). The speed of c++ compiling on AmigaOS 4.1 is horrendous... If you want to set up a cross compiling environment for Qt, please contact me over chat or email, since it is a bit of a complicated process.

OK, but as I said I'll look into the code first to find the reasons (potential places) of speed issues on AmigaOS. Only if I understand the code and find these places I will begin to fix speed problems.

As of compiling C++ projects on AmigaOS4.1 it's not that big problem for me (even though I've got loaned Sam440ep). But if I need to use cross-compiling I'll contact you of course.

I guess that AmigaOS developers are helping you with the project in some way?

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Re: The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
Amigans Defender
Joined:
2006/12/2 13:27
From Taranto, Italy
Posts: 916
There is another problem on our QT implementation. As far i remember the "Broken zone" redraw is not implemented and so the bitmap is always redraw entirely.. so imagine how slow is.. i've tried to take a look in the past but QT is a big animal..

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Re: The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
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2006/11/26 16:47
Posts: 1429
Nice!! Keep it up alfkiller!

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Re: The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
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2009/10/7 0:11
From Copenhagen
Posts: 1188
@afxgroup

False. If you are refering to the "backing store" functionality, it is turned on and works.

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Re: The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
Amigans Defender
Joined:
2006/12/2 13:27
From Taranto, Italy
Posts: 916
Ah ok.. in the past i remember that the entire page was redraw.. so good to hear.. at this point a good profiler would help..

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Re: The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
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2011/7/20 19:01
Posts: 46
afxgroup wrote:

Quote:
.. at this point a good profiler would help..


I'd agree but I've also found the technique listed at What can I use to profile C++ code in Linux? works really well often enough, I was sceptical till I tried it and it really works as quick solution.

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Re: The Revenge of the Qt Demo Browser
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2009/10/7 0:11
From Copenhagen
Posts: 1188
Another teaser... Here it is db101 debugging the Qt Demo Browser. 400mb of stabs info at your fingertips!

Screenshot 2

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